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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: llanite]
#1073090
12/01/09 03:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,408
Stickchunker
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,408 |
I have seen the differance first hand. I have a Leupold 4.5X14 40MM VX-3 with a 1" Tube on my 300 WSM. My Stepdad has a Zeiss Conquest 3.5X10 44MM with a 30MM tube on his 300 WSM. We were at the range, in the middle of the day (Sunny) With my scope on 14 and his on 10, i could clearly see the bullet holes in the paper much better with his Zeiss than i could with my Leupold. IMO, dont skimp on your glass. I did, and now im wanting to sale my Leupold to buy a Zeiss.
In these times , 'I'll keep my God , my freedom , my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Stickchunker]
#1073471
12/01/09 06:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 793
RockinU
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 793 |
Not arguing for either brand, as I think both are fine choices, but comparing a 30mm and a 1 inch tube isn't a fair comparison. the 30mm will always convey more light, add to that fact the larger objective...well it's just not a fair comparison.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: RockinU]
#1073551
12/01/09 07:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,311
txvarminter
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,311 |
My comparisons have all been 1 inch tubes and the part that isn't fair is how much better the Zeiss is than the lupe.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: dawaba]
#1073578
12/01/09 07:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550
rtp
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550 |
I'll accept a Chevrolet rifle and a Ford scope. But I demand a Mercedes binocular. Put your money in the things you use the most. X2 I have a remington 700 bdl, middle of the line leoplod scope, swarovski binos, and swarovski spotting scope. My buddy has a $4000+ custom rifle. He can not shoot any better with it than he could before he got it. Not saying he is not a good shot just saying his low end rifle shot just as well. Spend ur money on what you use the most. Binos and/or spotting scope.
Let'em grow old
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: txvarminter]
#1073581
12/01/09 07:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 793
RockinU
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 793 |
Well, I'm glad you have found what you like. I have a plethora of scopes on different guns, and my current favorite is my Leupold Long Range Target 6-20x50...but that may just be because it's on my favorite rifle. I do also have a conquest and like it very much as well.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: deewayne2003]
#1073587
12/01/09 07:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100
dgilbert
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100 |
I visited a neighboring deer camp this weekend and looked in the corner of the cabin to see a $300 wal-mart remington 700 .270 with a $1,600.00 Zeiss scope on it.
I started to chuckle at it and realized the guy was right on track with spending more on optics than the gun.
Any body do the same thing? Yep, laugh ON!
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: RockinU]
#1073604
12/01/09 07:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,761
ccoker
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,761 |
Not arguing for either brand, as I think both are fine choices, but comparing a 30mm and a 1 inch tube isn't a fair comparison. the 30mm will always convey more light, add to that fact the larger objective...well it's just not a fair comparison. sorry, but that is an innacurate statement 30mm tubes allow for more adjustment and are stronger (though how many 1" tubes actually fail?) I am a firm believer in spending as much as you can possibly afford on good glass
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: ccoker]
#1073886
12/01/09 09:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,762
cbump
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,762 |
Not arguing for either brand, as I think both are fine choices, but comparing a 30mm and a 1 inch tube isn't a fair comparison. the 30mm will always convey more light, add to that fact the larger objective...well it's just not a fair comparison. sorry, but that is an innacurate statement 30mm tubes allow for more adjustment and are stronger (though how many 1" tubes actually fail?)
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: cbump]
#1074141
12/01/09 10:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,857
cmc
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,857 |
Why have a gun that will shoot 1000 yards and scope that can only see 300. Spend the money on the glass.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: cmc]
#1074225
12/01/09 10:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
even a bushnell banner can see 300yds in lowlight conditions when game cams show it is dark.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: rifleman]
#1074320
12/01/09 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,317
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,317 |
Some time ago an article appeared on the Remington website that was written by a guy who worked as a guide in the Midwest. As he put it, "I learned that when a guy showed up with a fancy rifle and expensive scope, the hunt would most likely include plenty of four letter words and missed opportunities. On the other hand, when someone showed up with a well-worn rifle and fixed power scope, there would be meat to pack."
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: cmc]
#1074341
12/01/09 11:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
Why have a gun that will shoot 1000 yards and scope that can only see 300. Spend the money on the glass. Why have a gun that can shoot 1000, glass that can see 1000, and a person that can only shoot 300? I'll save my money on the glass! Until I'm rich that is!
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Justin T]
#1074381
12/01/09 11:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 288
foxpro
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 288 |
I agree with txvarminter I have a lupe and zeiss and the zeiss always wins. Then again I also do alot of night varmint hunting.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: txvarminter]
#1074569
12/02/09 12:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,227
LonestarCobra
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,227 |
I like a premium scope on my rifles. I have expensive rifles as well as cheap ones, but they all shoot good, and with the exeption of the rimfires, they all wear a higher end scope. If all shots while hunting were in broad daylight with no clouds, most any scope would work, especially if you had good binocs. I can tell a big difference between my Simmons scope and my Leupolds and Kahles when it comes to light transmission, and thats the selling point for me.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: LonestarCobra]
#1074785
12/02/09 01:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
PineNut
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 76 |
What I want to know is what Wal-Mart can I get a new 700 for $300? lol
The Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 is the best value out there IMO for a full size rifle. Has been for a few years now.
You need to call it...I can't call it for you.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: PineNut]
#1074909
12/02/09 01:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,741
passthru
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,741 |
I believe in quality optics. That said I can't justify a grand for a scope. Buy the best you can afford.
My biggest problem with this thread is all of you who are looking at something that you aren't shooting at with your rifle. If the light is so low you can't ID the animal, or at least have to struggle to then you haven't yet made the decision to shoot. If you can't see the animal that well, how can you see what is beyond it? Basic gun safety says you never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot and always know whats beyond your target.
Use your binoculars or your spotting scope. If you are that serious about trophy hunting you better be better at judging than looking through your scope. Being safe and responsible is far more important than shooting in the first or last couple of minutes of shooting light or any trophy for the wall.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: PineNut]
#1074910
12/02/09 01:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,834
Kawabuggy
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,834 |
A hog is nothing more than a bullet receptacle.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Justin T]
#1074965
12/02/09 02:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,857
cmc
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,857 |
Why have a gun that will shoot 1000 yards and scope that can only see 300. Spend the money on the glass. Why have a gun that can shoot 1000, glass that can see 1000, and a person that can only shoot 300? I'll save my money on the glass! Until I'm rich that is! I can improve my shooting but a rifle and scope are what they are. Its hard to out shoot your rifle but shooting can improve with quality equipment.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: llanite]
#1075058
12/02/09 02:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 793
tx270
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 793 |
My mentality is: I need a scope to get the job done... usually that is in the $100-500 range. More than that I might as well use the money to purchase another rifle. Spend the money on binocs or a dang good spotting scope if it's a matter of IDing the target in low light conditions.
True, you should have a good pair of binoculars too, but many a trophy buck has been allowed to walk because the hunter looked through his binocs before picking up his rifle. I read once you have 5 seconds to identify a trophy buck and shoot before he's gone. More often than not, I have found that to be the case. Just this past weekend the old rancher that owns our lease was downplaying the use of binocs on big bucks for the reason above, and I couldn't have agreed with him more. Besides, what good is id-ing him with binocs if you can't see him clearly in your scope? Granted, nobody NEEDS a $1,000 scope, but they sure are nice to have. To each his own but I couldn't disagree more. The problem is people think bins are for just looking at something they already spotted with the naked eye. Binoculars are for FINDING game, yes even in the thicker brush of East Texas or hill country. I have found many deer (and a couple I killed) that I guarantee you I never would have spotted with the naked eye, or if I had it would have been too late. I do agree once a shooter buck is in the open its not time to be looking at him through the bins, you need to have the gun out. As to the original question, yes, I would rather scrimp a little on the rifle than have to scrimp on the optics for it, and have done exactly that. It's not always about pure image quality, high quality scopes also have better made internals and adjustments, seals etc. To me the gun is only as good as the scope mounted on it. Does it require a $1000 scope, not at all, but it does require more than a bubble wrap wal-mart special scope. Bill
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: PineNut]
#1075263
12/02/09 03:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 58
Longlivethebeast
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 58 |
I bought a Savage 270 with the Accu-Trigger, and put a Zeiss 3x9 on it, for my main hunting gun. I dont have to worry about scratching the black synthetic stalk, and I couldn't ask for much better optics. My pretty guns are in the safe...safe
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Longlivethebeast]
#1075371
12/02/09 04:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,820
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,820 |
I guess nobody wants to hear about my Bushnell binoculars or my Tasco scope that I use on my Savage from Kmart. That all cost less than $300 when I bought it, the scope was part of the rifle package. I was going to change it but I haven't missed a shot in over 20 years so I guess I will keep them.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: dogcatcher]
#1076032
12/02/09 03:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
PineNut
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 76 |
Higher recoiling calibers are the hardest on scopes. A cheap scope on a 243 may last forever but on a 300wm you may be asking for it.
We have several dependable accurate guns that were around $200 25 years ago. Mostly Ruger M77s. Those exact same guns (hawkeyes) are well over $500 now. Of course you could buy a nice pickup back then for $14K as well. lol
Inflation is a beach.
You need to call it...I can't call it for you.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Texas Dan]
#1076093
12/02/09 03:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,227
Grizz
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,227 |
Some time ago an article appeared on the Remington website that was written by a guy who worked as a guide in the Midwest. As he put it, "I learned that when a guy showed up with a fancy rifle and expensive scope, the hunt would most likely include plenty of four letter words and missed opportunities. On the other hand, when someone showed up with a well-worn rifle and fixed power scope, there would be meat to pack." So I guess if someone spends a little more money on their rifle and/or scope, they're probably not much of a hunter? Another classic.
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Grizz]
#1076123
12/02/09 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,317
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,317 |
So I guess if someone spends a little more money on their rifle and/or scope, they're probably not much of a hunter? Another classic. I prefer to see it the other way, based on past experience. Just because a hunter happens to carry a cheaper rifle and scope, it doesn't mean he/she isn't as good at hunting and harvesting deer, as the one who spends a lot more.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: I laughed ....then realized he was right!
[Re: Texas Dan]
#1076211
12/02/09 04:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,604
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,604 |
I think it's a balancing act. I have a wide variety of scopes on our rifles. My savage heavy barrel has a 4.5-14 Leupold, real nice...and a good match. My PSG-1 had a Schmidt-Bender, again a good match.
My EDCrifle is a Remington 750 Carbine, topped with a Burris Fullfield II. The Burris has been tremendously reliable and durable, and matches the gun well. The carbine produces hunter grade groups out to 300 yards, but begins to wash out beyond that...not much need for a 800 scope for it.
If someone had a 1000 to spend, I'd suggest 500 on gun, 300 on optics/base/rings/ and 200 on ammo to practice with....
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