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EQUIPMENT & METHODS >> Ammunition & Reloading
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redchevy
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Making reduced loads
      #399382 - 04/02/08 10:26 AM

My brother wants me to make some reduced loads for his 270 for his girlfriend to shoot. He bought some 130 grain nosler partitions, and I need to find a published load for them using H4895 if anyone can help me out on it I would appreciate it.
Thanks

Matt

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jeh7mmmagModerator
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #399394 - 04/02/08 10:49 AM

Go to Hodgdon web site and look at there youth reduced loads. Lot of good information.

published load
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

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JJH
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #399398 - 04/02/08 10:59 AM

rc: here's a load that I cut and pasted from a post by John Barnsness (sp?), gun writer. Haven't tried it myself, yet, but seems to fit your needs:

"I have also had good luck with around 42 grains of IMR4895 and a 130-grain Hornady Spire Point. It not only takes deer neatly, but recoils gently and leaves lots of wild turkey left over if there happens to be a rifle season open in the fall."

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WileyCoyote
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: JJH]
      #399730 - 04/02/08 06:55 PM

Find a Speer manual and look at the right hand bottom of almost every bullet in almost every caliber listed for a reduced load that will run between 1650 & 2000 fps I'd look to using a Ballistic Tip instead of a Partition at those speeds though.

As far as developing a softer recoiling round...check out the Hodgdon stuff in a One Caliber book and look for powders that give real low pressures, but it looks like you can't hardly get under about 44,000lbs cup in a 270...and one reason I switched to a 6.5Swede to nurse my busted wing with last year...'cause I can throw 129gr'ers at 35,000 lbs cup and about 2400fps.
Have fun!
Ron

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: WileyCoyote]
      #399897 - 04/02/08 10:51 PM

Thanks for the reply wiley, I was hopin you would throw in your two cents, I will see what I can do with it. I thouht the same thing about using balistic tips, but my brother just bought them without asking so we will se how they work.

matt

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Kawabuggy
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Reged: 01/14/08
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #399972 - 04/03/08 08:44 AM

Wiley, I have been having loads of fun with the bullets that you sent me. I am really putting my RCBS Rock Chucker press through the paces! I have probably already fired 200 rounds, and have re-loaded another 200 just to have on-hand.

Redchevy, if I may offer one piece of my personal experience with shooting a 270.. I have been shooting mine recently with reloads that I have made myself. What I have found is that if you want a lighter recoil for target practice-go with a lighter bullet! The Sierra Varminter 90 grain HPFB with about 51 gr. of IMR 4320, or 55 gr. of IMR 4350, gives me superb accuracy with very little felt recoil. Both of these loads are on the lower end of the charge weights. As I go up on bullet weight, the recoil goes up dramatically.

The Nosler Partition bullets are great-but I don't think I would waste them target practicing. Too nice a bullet to waste on paper. You could try a lighter bullet, and then also a reduced propellant charge and it should tame the gun down quite nicely for the girlfriend to shoot.

Glad to hear that your brother is getting his g'friend involved. We as a gun-loving community need to get as many family, friends, and acquaintances involved as possible if we want to keep our hobby alive, and keep the anti-gunners from depriving us of our 2nd amendment rights.

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WileyCoyote
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Kawabuggy]
      #400039 - 04/03/08 11:22 AM

If I remember right Partitions take at least an impact speed of 1800 fps to open and mushroom correctly...and BT's requirements are a little softer than that down around 1600 fps.
KB is right about using a lighter bullet even at the slower speeds.

When I began to research what to buy last year to learn to shoot again with a different geometry in my neck and cheek from all the tissue that had been removed, I was initially looking at using a 308Win and 30-30 style & strength bullet that would open and mushroom at substantially lower speeds without coming apart in a shallow non killing penetration of a deer sized animal like a varmint bullet will do.

I wanted to be able to A. allow myself plenty of practice trigger time without wrecking what I was doing in Rehab for recovery of my heavily damaged shoulder and neck, and B.accomplish a decent deer sized killing bullet performance out to about 200-250 yards.

That low speed 30-30 bullet out of a 308 premise is still valid with 170gr 30-30's running at 1450fps to 1750fps out of a 308 case, but I discovered that a very slow 270 would also do the job ...but a 6.5 Swede would do the job even better as Swede bullets are already loaded to pressure ranges about 10k cup lower than the lowest 270's and with 8x12" twist rate are world reknowned for their deep penetration using the 264's long skinny bullets that have very high BC's & SD's in 270 bullet weight ranges.

My current go to load in the 6.5x55 is a 120gr Sierra ProHunter at about 2650-2700fps at 3 grains UNDER max ... that I have been able to shoot 50+ rounds at a session in nothing but a T shirt...and gets close to one hole groups or has given me 5 shots in under a 1/2". I've started working on a 140 gr load but I'm not there yet.
This kind of performance out of my Tikka T3 6.5 Swede is what led me to sell of all my 270 bullets recently... but I still got a NIB T3 SS/syn 270 rifle in the closet just waiting to get back in the game.

OBTW...make double sure that the Girl Friend is wearing double muffs 'cause you'd be surprised how many folks learn to flinch at the noise and are not really concerned with the recoil.
Ron

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: WileyCoyote]
      #400056 - 04/03/08 12:15 PM

We are trying to make low recoil hunting loads so the 90 grainers are out. She is already shooting so we kinda have that part of it down, just wanting something a little bigger than the 223 that she is curently shooting.

matt

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jeh7mmmagModerator
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: WileyCoyote]
      #400725 - 04/04/08 12:06 PM

Quote:

Find a Speers manual and look at the right hand bottom of almost every bullet in almost every caliber listed for a reduced load that will run between 1650 & 2000 fps



Thanks Wiley,
I have always been afraid of reduced loads because of SEE unless they are from a published load by someone reputable. I just picked up an old Speers #10 book and found the load you are talking about. Just never noticed them being there before.

Hodgdon has a good site with reduced loads listed but their site has been down a lot and is down right now. http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/.php


I have a can of SR4759 and I am working up some 22-250 FMJ reduced loads for Turkey right now. Now I can make up some SR4759 @ around 1700> FPS.

I have some reduced loads I put together years ago but there velocity is still around 3100FPS using IMR 4064 and they will still ruin a lot of meat. Probably pull these and load with SR 4759 and resight at range. Got a long-range surprise for some skitty Toms on the way. Happy hunting. Thanks

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jeh7mmmagModerator
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: jeh7mmmag]
      #400834 - 04/04/08 03:18 PM

Here is a big listing of reduced loads that googled^

http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

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Ironwood
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #400979 - 04/04/08 08:45 PM

I have a copy of the number 10 Speer Reloading Manual. IM me if you would like the reduced loadings for the 130 and 150 grain bullets.

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Kawabuggy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Ironwood]
      #409591 - 04/20/08 07:41 PM

Redchevy-what's wrong with using the 90 gr bullet for hunting? I personally know lots of people who have killed deer with regular 40 gr. .22 caliber Long Rifle bullets. In this case you have a bullet that weighs more than TWICE as much, and is traveling almost 3 times as fast!

I understand a different bullet choice if you are worried about conserving the meat. If that is your concern-you are right, you should look for a heavier bullet, of a tougher design that will give you a through-n-through shot and then the animal can bleed out..

If you want to drop them immediately where they stand, without taking a SINGLE step, then the 90 grain will do it, if & when you hit 'em where it counts.

Why am I so sure? I shot 2 hogs LAST NIGHT with the very hand loads that I mentioned above and both of them hit the dirt like a safe had fallen on them.

When I cleaned them, I found that both bullets entered, but neither of them exited. They basically exploded inside the animal. When I gutted one I found the heart, liver, & lungs looked like they had been through a blender.. They basically poured out like jello. The other hog was quartering away from me but his head was looking back towards me. That one I shot in the neck and again, the bullet entered, hit the spinal column, and exploded..... No exit wound. Hog dropped on the spot.

Of course I would not go bear, elk, or moose hunting with that load, but if you are hog or deer hunting, you should give it a try. It definitely meets your requirements of low recoil.

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Kawabuggy]
      #410866 - 04/22/08 06:15 PM

Yeah I know people have killed deer with lots of things, I know for a fact that 27 grain CB cap 22's will kill deer, but it aint a deer rifle, especialy not or an in-experienced hunter/shooter. I have shot some stuf with the 90 grain hp's they kill varmits well, alot of mess, but I have shot some hogs with them as well, and they dont do real well. I want a good round for an inexperienced person who is recoil sensative that will kill deer and hogs reliably without having to make a head shot.

matt

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mrbigtexan
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Reged: 02/10/08
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #411122 - 04/22/08 11:17 PM

kawabuggy and redchevy, just to let you guys know, it is against the law to use rimfire firearms to deer hunt. be careful what you type.

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: mrbigtexan]
      #411236 - 04/23/08 09:17 AM

I didnt say I did it I just said I know. I know it is against the law.

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Crazyhorse
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #413969 - 04/27/08 06:54 PM

One of the guys on the last hunt in April was using a 270 with reduced loads he had worked up, and on jackrabbits and cottontails both, he got good clean kills with no expansion of the bullets, and he was using a 270 and the load was really accurate.

I will check with him and see what the loading was, but I was impressed with the results, cotton tails shot at 75 yards with less damage than a 22 at 30.

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Hipshot
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Crazyhorse]
      #414193 - 04/27/08 10:47 PM

Randall,
It was 11 gr. 700X with a 100 gr. Remington Spitzer seated WAY OUT !

Bob

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Hipshot
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Hipshot]
      #414195 - 04/27/08 10:47 PM

P.S. Vel.-------app. 1550 FPS.

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Crazyhorse
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Hipshot]
      #414324 - 04/28/08 08:40 AM



Thanks for that info.

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WileyCoyote
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Crazyhorse]
      #414585 - 04/28/08 01:58 PM

Now THAT sounds like a GREAT squirrel load too!! Wonder if the GW would bust my butt carrying a CF deer rifle before deer season started to hunt tree rats with? Otherwise it's back to the Marlin rinfire lever gun now that I got a decent scope on it.

** A quick chek of the TP&W field guide does not reveal a CF restriction on tree rats...so I may load up the Swede with some 100gr'ers in low velocity stuff and wear 'em out with it...since I sold all my 100 gr 270 boolitz ...an got 6.5 100gr'ers to burn.
Sounds like good practice on making squirrel head shots at 100+yards too

Looks like I'm gonna hit the WMA ground in Fannin County this year, 'cause everbody sez get out and scout during early squirrel season...an they gotta be as covered up with tree rats as I am.
Ron

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WileyCoyote
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: WileyCoyote]
      #414601 - 04/28/08 02:18 PM

OBTW I saw on "another channel" a thread & post byu a guy touting the use of a normal bullet loaded with the pointy end into the case and a low power powder charge to create a "solid" non expanding round for use on hogs and vermin where ya dinnit want a splatter effect ...personally I don;t see the value but thought I'd pass along the idea.
Ron

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When you don't KNOW your Legal Rights...you HAVE no Legal Rights...
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Crazyhorse
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: WileyCoyote]
      #414712 - 04/28/08 05:08 PM

Back early in my career, I knew some folks that loaded 243 85 grain varmint bullets backwards for turkeys and fur work.

Can't even come close to remembering what the loadings were, but they used them religiously.

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Crazyhorse]
      #422307 - 05/12/08 01:32 PM

Finaly got me a good load, 130 gr partitions over 27 grains H4895. They are quieter very very easy on the shoulder, she should be able to shoot these bullets all day long without a flinch. Got inch groups and I will let yall know how they perform on game.

matt

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jeh7mmmagModerator
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #422807 - 05/12/08 09:55 PM

Matt,
I sure hope you are getting these loads from a reputable source?
Quote:

……130 gr partitions over 27 grains H4895……



Below data is from Hodgdon Load data site. Going below minimum or going above the max can be very dangerous.
Minimum starting load is 42.0 grs
130 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon H4895 .277" 3.180" 42.0 2782 44,700 CUP 45.0 2922 51,000 CUP

IMR 43.0 MIN
130 GR. HDY SP IMR IMR 4895 .277" 3.180" 43.0 2768 43,000 CUP 46.9 2957 50,600 CUP

It appears You are treading in dangerous territory (Secondary Explosion Effect) by disregarding powder manufacture advice for starting and Max loads. Your results could end up like this picture and with serious injury or worse. Seems the guy lost 2 fingers and luckly lived to tell about it. There are other stories that were not so lucky.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j212/Tailgunner1954/Blown86Win2.jpg


From Sierra Reloading Glossary:
SEE: Abbreviation for Secondary Explosive Effect. SEE is a condition which can occur when slow-burning powders are used at greatly reduced charge weights (poor loading density). Rather than burning in a normal fashion, the powder detonates, as though it were a severe overload. Also known as a “pressure excursion.”
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reference/glossary.cfm#s


Here is a typical discussion related to SEE and the results.Pressure spikes and explosions can and do occur when using slow burning powders in large volume cases.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2173819/page/1/fpart/1

I would advise you research loading manuals, powder manufacture site, and bullet manufacture site for safe reloading data for youth loads, reduced load, gallery loads, and not endanger your self and other by creating loads that don’t meet safety guideline of the industry.


Just a few of many sites advising of dangers:

Quote:

20. Take special care when working up trial loads with slow burning powders in large calibre cartridges. Light loads in some calibres may produce occasional dangerously high pressures. It is suggested that minimum loads in large calibre cartridges should not be reduced below about 75% case capacity.
http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/safety.asp />




Quote:

Follow load recommendations exactly. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE components for those listed and ALWAYS START LOADING WITH THE MINIMUM POWDER CHARGE IN THE LOADS SHOWN.
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/ />


Thanks and good luck,

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DannyB
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: jeh7mmmag]
      #422884 - 05/12/08 10:50 PM

Going below minimum can be very dangerous.

About eighteen year ago I blew up a S&W 36 by going BELOW minimum. It was described to me as a "detonation" instead of a "powder burn". That could probably be defined by others on here better than by me. But it sure made a believer out of me---follow the recipe.

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Crazyhorse
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: DannyB]
      #422903 - 05/12/08 11:24 PM

Going below minimum in an empty case can be disasterous.

That is why people developed loads using Cream of Wheat and other fillers, placed in the case on top of the powder charge, thereby keeping the powder down next to the primer.

I would be willing to bet that more reduced powder loads have been shot with NO ill effects, than the number that has resulted in disaster.

From my experience with handloading/reloading, it is when someone decides to skip a step that problems develope.

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Crazyhorse]
      #423025 - 05/13/08 08:51 AM

Well I called up hodgdons and they said that for any load that lists 4895 you can reduce the max charge by by 40 % and that will give you a safe reliable igniting reduced load. I followed the steps and they seemed to shoot great. The only thing I didn that isnt exactly by the book was used 130 grain nosler partitions in a load that was published for 130 grain hdy sp. I had several people that I personaly know and trust tell me that wouldnt make an issue as long as I sayed away from max loads.

matt

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jeh7mmmagModerator
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #423064 - 05/13/08 10:05 AM

Matt,
Great to hear that you called Hodgdon and got the information. Glad to see you researched the load before hand.
I am also glad to hear they said 40% so that puts you in the safe area with 27 grs. I was guessing because the normal figure I see of 75% of Max and your load was borderline at 27grs. Most of these accidents with SEE you hear about are with straight wall case like 38 &357 and 45-70. They are not pretty.
I heard of a guy last year in California that worked for Firearms Company that had a range on their facility. At lunch he went to range and did not show back up that afternoon. Later they found him at range with the bolt out of his gun lodged in his head after explosion. They suspected this was a SEE explosion.
Good luck with the reduced loads. I know they are pleasant to shoot. You might also look at chuckhawks site listed above for his listing of reduced loads from published IMR and Hodgdon data. Hodgdon has redone their web site and they’re listing of youth loads do not show up any more? My guess is lawyer liability reasons.

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Straight-Shooter
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: redchevy]
      #424748 - 05/15/08 11:02 AM

If she is going to use them for hunting medium sized game (deer...) the I suggest using the new 110 gr nosler accubond. The bullet should be coming out this summer. Accubonds are very accurate, and extremly effective on shooting medium to large sized game. The lighter the bullet the less recoil will be felt.

As stated before do not go below minimum charge. If she doesn't like the rifle because of the kick then your brother needs to outfit her with a smaller rifle like a 243.

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redchevy
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Re: Making reduced loads [Re: Straight-Shooter]
      #425008 - 05/15/08 05:48 PM

We are happy with what we have thanks though. Tho hole Idea of handloading to me is to smecialize gun and bullet to do what you want. We didnt want to buy another gun, so we downloaded the 270 now it is very lite recoiling, I followed all guidlines from powder manufacturer so they are plenty safe, and I am sure they will suit our needs well.

matt

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