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Planting Japanese Millet
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Just curious as to some of your experiences with seeding Japanese Millet around stock tanks.
I have a lease on the Red River north of Vernon that has several large tanks on it. I am going to seed the banks with Japanese Millet with a hand thrower to see if I can get some of it going. Probably do it mid-July or so.
Have any of you had good luck with this paying dividends?
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sallysue
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(Outdoorsman)
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06/21/08 04:55 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Go to the Refuge theres a lot of stuff there about planting food plots.
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jeff34
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(Outdoorsman)
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06/21/08 06:26 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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It works pretty good. Cattle sure like it.  Late July or August is a good time to plant it. Buy a bunch of seed and as the tank recedes just keep slinging moor out into mud. I like native thing like smart weed. Cattle leave it alone.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/21/08 06:50 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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smartweed only costs about $200 for 50#, Millet is $35 for 50#
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jeff34
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(Outdoorsman)
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06/21/08 08:15 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Its high. But due you know how small the seed is? 50 lbs would cover up some space. Prolly a whole lot moor than you would need. Plus it comes back each year. Jap millet wont. But jap millet is very good.. The WGF Sorghum does real good also, I think it is better than the jap millet if we dont get much rain.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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I was thinking that all my effort might be wasted if the cattle mow it down as fast as it comes up.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/22/08 09:59 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Smart weed has the potiental of regrowth but all of the elements have to come together to get a good stand, this will not happen every year. When you plant you have more controll of this.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Do the ponds have vegatation in and around them? If not, you will be wasting your time and money by attempting to make a crop.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Great looking ponds. You can plant Jap Millet but the cows will probably graze it down to nothing. The reason why Jap Millet is so desireable to ducks is do to its waterproof seed that resist spoiling in high moisture enviroments. Since the cattle will never let the millet head out, it would probably be better to plant wheat or oats around the ponds. Simply because it will make a better stand on the dry banks and all you are gaining is habitat for invertabrits which ducks often feed on.
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/23/08 07:03 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Just curious as to some of your experiences with seeding Japanese Millet around stock tanks.
I have a lease on the Red River north of Vernon that has several large tanks on it. I am going to seed the banks with Japanese Millet with a hand thrower to see if I can get some of it going. Probably do it mid-July or so.
Have any of you had good luck with this paying dividends?
Planting time is mid-July and it should do well. However, if the ponds you plant any millet around, you would not be allowed to hunt waterfowl over this season.
A hunter MAY NOT:
-hunt migratory birds with the aid of bait, or on or over any baited area
-hunt over any baited area until 10 days after all baiting materials have been removed
-hunt waterfowl or cranes over manipulated planted millet, unless the millet was planted more than one year prior to hunting
-hunt waterfowl or cranes over crops that have been manipulated, unless the manipulation is a normal agricultural planting, harvesting, or post-harvest manipulation
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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kyotee1
Can you read?
IT SAYS MANIPULATED!
You CAN lawfully hunt over ANY crop as long as you don't MANIPULATE it. Millet with no head is useless.
COWS = No Millet
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/23/08 09:14 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Absolutely, Then go for it...Good luck though! Where's a federal warden when you need one!
NATURAL VEGETATION: Any nonagricultural,
native or naturalized plant species that grows at a site in response to planting or from existing seeds or propagule. Natural vegetation does not include planted millet.
However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the planting is considered natural vegetation.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/23/08 01:03 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Every year it is the same debate, First year Millet is leagal to hunt over but you may not manipulate, i.e. mow, dive on, walk down, ect. All native veg. you may manipulate. Second year volenteer millet is considered NATIVE,
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/23/08 02:49 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Nothing has changed from year-to-year on planting of millet. If it is planted this summer, it may not be hunted over this season. If it comes back up the following summer or subsequent years, you may legally hunt over it.
Please contact the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service since they regulate all migratory birds, bag limits, seasons and what may or may not allowed.
We, any state regulations must have to abide their ruling, we can more strict, but not less.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/23/08 04:11 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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you need to talk with the feds in Dallas, I have the above in writting from Special agent Mike medenith. I am not arguing this I already know the law....
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/23/08 04:13 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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I would also like to point out that the law also includes any ag crop, NRCS reconizes Jap millet as soil stabilizer, therefore it is NORMAL AG PROCESS.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Thanks for the explanation TXPH. But I wonder if he is listening yet? It's plainly written in book.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/23/08 09:31 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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some people think these laws are grey and open for interpritation, if a warden is ignorant to a law, do not argue! take it up with the local judge, if need be get an attorney but do not roll over and pay a ticket that you do not deserve, even if it cost more to fight it. The LAW IS THE LAW!!!!
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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"Natural vegetation means any nonagricultural, native, or naturalized plant species that grows at a site in response to planting or from existing seeds or other propagules. The term natural vegetation does not include planted millet. However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the year of planting is considered natural vegetation. "
http://www.fws.gov/le/HuntFish/FederalRegulations1.htm
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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"A hunter MAY NOT:
hunt migratory birds with the aid of bait, or on or over any baited area;
hunt over any baited area until 10 days after all baiting materials have been removed;
hunt waterfowl or cranes over manipulated planted millet, unless the millet was planted not less than one year prior to hunting;
hunt waterfowl or cranes over crops that have been manipulated, unless the manipulation is a normal agricultural post-harvesting manipulation in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. "
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/season/waterfowl/methods/
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/24/08 06:48 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Thank you James...
TO - and yes, I listen, hear, read and understand quite well, thank you.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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kyotee1,
James posted the same information you did!!! Its valid info, but your taking stuff out of context. You cannot hunt over millet the same year you plant it IF IT HAS BEEN MANIPULATED. READ YOUR OWN WRITING. As long as it hasnt been manipulated you can hunt it the same year you plant it.
You can bring a horse to water but you cant make him drink.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/24/08 08:28 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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I hate to tell you this one, but a few folks that planted it and hunted over it (without it being manipulated) a few years back, lost their shotguns, licenses and vehicles to Federal Wardens when they checked them. The feds knew about the planting and once the season opened and the owners were hunting it, they paid the price.
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Txduckman
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(THF Trophy Hunter)
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06/24/08 10:00 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
"Natural vegetation means any nonagricultural, native, or naturalized plant species that grows at a site in response to planting or from existing seeds or other propagules. The term natural vegetation does not include planted millet. However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the year of planting is considered natural vegetation. "
http://www.fws.gov/le/HuntFish/FederalRegulations1.htm
That is just a definition of natural vegetation so it quailifies as that the 2nd year so can knock it around. No where do the feds say you cannot hunt over planted millet the first year. It only says manipulated millet.
http://www.fws.gov/le/HuntFish/waterfowl_baiting.htm
If you search the net and the big duck forum many people are hunting it the first year, just not manipulating it. Why wouldn't feds just put in writing, YOU CANNOT HUNT IT FOR ONE YEAR NO MATTER WHAT if it is illegal like all other game laws??? 
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Gdogg
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(Tracker)
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06/24/08 10:57 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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So what happens when a Federal Game Warden walks up and sees that the vegetation has been knocked down from the hunters, cattle, weather, etc. After getting a $550.00 ticket from a Fed that said I shot a mottle duck, even though I had not, I would be a bit concerned about hunting over Japanese millet the first year it was planted. I do believe TXPH did the right thing in talking to a local agent.
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Txduckman
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(THF Trophy Hunter)
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06/24/08 11:02 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Weather is not a method of manipulation!!!
You can't let cows walk in it and any person with a true planted duck pond would not let cows in anyway. I think we beat the fact that you would have no millet left anyway with cows. You can't go stomping in it either. You wouldn't you want to kill it by tramping it.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/24/08 03:26 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Lets leve it as simple as possible, if you think that hunting in a place or situation is illeagle then do not do it.
I on the other hand will be hunting prime Waterfowl food plots that are leagle. And I am sure that my locals and feds will visit me just like they do every year, and I am sure that they will find nothing out of the norm of years past.
Thats all folks.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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It seems odd to me if Japanese millet was illegal to hunt over, that the ingredients of Mossy Oak Biologic Guide's Choice for waterfowl are:
57% Japanese millet
24% buckwheat
7.6% rice
6.6% sorghum
I have an extremely difficult time believing that MO would put a product on the market that puts everyone who plants it in direct violation of federal baiting laws.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Lets leve it as simple as possible, if you think that hunting in a place or situation is illeagle then do not do it.
or try and find a good spot to park so that at first glance the GW cant tell your there
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/26/08 09:03 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
So what happens when a Federal Game Warden walks up and sees that the vegetation has been knocked down from the hunters, cattle, weather, etc. After getting a $550.00 ticket from a Fed that said I shot a mottle duck, even though I had not, I would be a bit concerned about hunting over Japanese millet the first year it was planted. I do believe TXPH did the right thing in talking to a local agent.
Did he confenscate one of your bird, if not then where was the physical evidence, if so and it was not a mottle, why did you pay the fine? It would be their resposibility in court to produce the evidence.........no mottle duck not case..
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/26/08 09:25 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
It seems odd to me if Japanese millet was illegal to hunt over, that the ingredients of Mossy Oak Biologic Guide's Choice for waterfowl are:
57% Japanese millet
24% buckwheat
7.6% rice
6.6% sorghum
I have an extremely difficult time believing that MO would put a product on the market that puts everyone who plants it in direct violation of federal baiting laws.
There's products made by all sorts of companies that isn't their responsibility to know the laws, we are, and they are not held liable for any of us using their product. No different than hunting migratory birds around or over a deer feeder throwing corn or any other type of grain.
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TXPH
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(Tracker)
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06/26/08 09:43 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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kyotee1,
what is your deal, who do you work for and where are you getting the intell that makes planting BAITING. BAITING, Manipulation, and planting are the key words here. you MAY NOT BAIT, YOU MAY NOT MANIPULATE PLATED CROPS, UNLESS THROUGH NORMAL AG PROCESS, YOU MAY MANIPULATE NATIVE VEG.
FIRST YEAR JAP MILLET, IS CONSIDERED A PLANTED CROP. THIS MEANS NO MANIPULATION.
SECOND YEAR VOL. GROWTH IS CONSIDERED NATIVE VEG. THIS MEANS YOU CAN MANIPULATE.
AGAIN I ASK WHERE YOUR UNWRITTEN INTELL IS COMING FROM?
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Quote:
It seems odd to me if Japanese millet was illegal to hunt over, that the ingredients of Mossy Oak Biologic Guide's Choice for waterfowl are:
57% Japanese millet
24% buckwheat
7.6% rice
6.6% sorghum
I have an extremely difficult time believing that MO would put a product on the market that puts everyone who plants it in direct violation of federal baiting laws.
There's products made by all sorts of companies that isn't their responsibility to know the laws, we are, and they are not held liable for any of us using their product. No different than hunting migratory birds around or over a deer feeder throwing corn or any other type of grain.
Legally, your argument makes zero sense. Feed corn has many legitimate and lawful uses. A seed blend manufactured for planting specifically as a waterfowl food plot where hunting will occur should, ethically and legally, conform to regulations governing the planting of food plots. There is snot so much as a disclaimer on the bag indicating that plots planted with Guide's Choice are closed for business for one year.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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I've got emails in to both Mossy Oak and USF&WS. We'll get a definitive answer on this.
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Gdogg
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(Tracker)
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06/26/08 10:09 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Quote:
So what happens when a Federal Game Warden walks up and sees that the vegetation has been knocked down from the hunters, cattle, weather, etc. After getting a $550.00 ticket from a Fed that said I shot a mottle duck, even though I had not, I would be a bit concerned about hunting over Japanese millet the first year it was planted. I do believe TXPH did the right thing in talking to a local agent.
Did he confenscate one of your bird, if not then where was the physical evidence, if so and it was not a mottle, why did you pay the fine? It would be their resposibility in court to produce the evidence.........no mottle duck not case..
Two years ago we (my son who was 11, me and two friends) were hunting at the coast near Palacious during the early teal season. We had downed 3 birds when I see a couple guys walking in the tall grass towards us. I knew they were game wardens but figured they would check our licenses and guns for plugs and be on their way. Instead, one of the wardens told me and my son to walk with him and the other warden told my friends to go with him. The warden kept asking confusing questions and was wanting us to say something that might either get us or our friends in trouble. Finally after serveral minutes the warden brought us together and said that he saw us shoot a mottle duck through his binocs and in short would be receiving a ticket in the mail. We were all confused and asked the warden where he saw the duck fall so we could clear this matter up. He just kind of pointed in a general direction, so I said you mind if I take my lab over there to find it. (If it were anywhere close to where he pointed, Dixie would have found it). He said sure but it won't change anything. Two weeks later I received a $550.00 ticket for harvesting a bird out of season. Complete  . To contest it I would have to attend a pre-hearing in Corpus Christi and then later appear in court. I was told that even without physical evdience that the judge could rule in the wardens favor. I decided to pay it and try and forget about it as soon as possible. I still have not even came close to forgetting about what happened. It really bothered me the way my son was put in that situation when we did absolutely nothing wrong.
By the way, I wasn't trying to argue hunting over first year millet, I was just trying to play devils advocate.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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I put in a call to USF&WS, but agent who handles law enforcement questions, David Sykes, is out of the office until July 7th. I did put in an email, though, and hope to get a response sometime soon. I'll also post up when Mossy Oak answers.
Tired of having this same damn discussion every year...
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Here is Mossy Oak's response:
Brian,
Whoever brought up the question isn't reading it correctly or understanding it the way that it is written. The law is perfectly clear. However, when you are talking migratory waterfowl you are messing with the "Feds" so there is NO room for mistakes. The crop is absolutely legal to hunt over, first year or fifth year after it was planted, as long as it is not manipulated in any way. You cannot do anything to help knock the seed off of the plant. As long as it naturally falls off or the crop is flooded so that the birds can reach the seed heads, that is perfectly legal. I am not aware of any special Texas laws on this subject but as far as Federal law goes, that's the skinny.
Shoot Straight,
Todd Amenrud
BioLogic, Scientifically Proven Wild Game Products
Director of Public Relations
Editor Farming for Wildlife Magazine
Habitat Consultant
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/26/08 11:36 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So what happens when a Federal Game Warden walks up and sees that the vegetation has been knocked down from the hunters, cattle, weather, etc. After getting a $550.00 ticket from a Fed that said I shot a mottle duck, even though I had not, I would be a bit concerned about hunting over Japanese millet the first year it was planted. I do believe TXPH did the right thing in talking to a local agent.
Did he confenscate one of your bird, if not then where was the physical evidence, if so and it was not a mottle, why did you pay the fine? It would be their resposibility in court to produce the evidence.........no mottle duck not case..
I was just trying to play devils advocate.
As I was as well...I have spoke with a federal warden and got the entire scoop and learned a few things, especially a whole lot of loop holes!
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TexasHeat
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(Veteran Tracker)
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06/26/08 12:57 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Fed's and State guys are not cut from the same cloth! Take possession limits; Fed's say no more than twice the daily limit in possession. That includes your ice box and home! State guys do not see it that way! Also take this to mind, all downed birds are to be counted in your daily limit. So if you shot and down or cripple a bird and you can't find it, still suppose to count!!! You can get pop over this more by the Fed's but the state guys can and will pop you for it to! We have had this discussion about hunting over first year Jap Millet for years. Law is black and white IMHO! Threecurl has it right and is dead on! That law is the law but if you hunt long enough you will run into someone that has there own interpretation of said game law. Best to know the FACTS and do not be afraid to stand up for your rights. Heck we are all human and make mistakes!
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/26/08 01:16 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
kyotee1,
what is your deal, who do you work for and where are you getting the intell that makes planting BAITING. BAITING, Manipulation, and planting are the key words here. you MAY NOT BAIT, YOU MAY NOT MANIPULATE PLATED CROPS, UNLESS THROUGH NORMAL AG PROCESS, YOU MAY MANIPULATE NATIVE VEG.
FIRST YEAR JAP MILLET, IS CONSIDERED A PLANTED CROP. THIS MEANS NO MANIPULATION.
SECOND YEAR VOL. GROWTH IS CONSIDERED NATIVE VEG. THIS MEANS YOU CAN MANIPULATE.
AGAIN I ASK WHERE YOUR UNWRITTEN INTELL IS COMING FROM?
This is exactly what I was talking about all along...it has become a broken record now...and like I said above, I have talked with a federal warden and learned so much on the loop holes!
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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IS SOMEBODY HAVING TROUBLE ADMITTING WHEN THEY'RE WRONG????????
NO LOOPHOLES. JUST LAW.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Hummmmmmmmm There is some loop hole's, kinda going to be a judgement call on the Warden or SA part. No I'm not going to debate this point. Just cover your base and make your own determination of the law, as your the one that has to live with it.
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Sethfish
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(THF Trophy Hunter)
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06/26/08 07:19 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Maybe one of the GW's that checks in on this site will see this post and make a response. I wouldn't take the chances on interpretation. You should be able to get a response in writing from both branches, that way you have shown diligence just in case your interpretation and someone else's with a badge don't happen to Jive. You would have the written responses and that should be enough to end the discussion.
Here I will add some key words to get them here.
Spotlight
22
East Texas
County Road
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Hummmmmmmmmmmmm you forgot "camaro"
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Sethfish
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(THF Trophy Hunter)
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06/26/08 09:10 PM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm you forgot "camaro"
Now you have done it, the Federal Guys are going to show up now.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
Maybe one of the GW's that checks in on this site will see this post and make a response. I wouldn't take the chances on interpretation. You should be able to get a response in writing from both branches, that way you have shown diligence just in case your interpretation and someone else's with a badge don't happen to Jive. You would have the written responses and that should be enough to end the discussion.
Here I will add some key words to get them here.
Spotlight
22
East Texas
County Road
... still had spots on it.
Just tryin' to help out.
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Sethfish
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(THF Trophy Hunter)
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06/27/08 09:57 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Now you have gone and done it. We're going to have a liberal federal game warden wearing a peta badge protesting the "veal-i-zation" of the whitetail. They do taste better. 
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/27/08 10:27 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
IS SOMEBODY HAVING TROUBLE ADMITTING WHEN THEY'RE WRONG????????
NO LOOPHOLES. JUST LAW.
On manipulation and how one does or can manipulate, yes, I was incorrect, it depends on WHAT you are planting it for...that's what I learned about the gray area. When I'm wrong, I'll acknowledege it and say I'm wrong as I have done above.
I was told by both state & federal wardens (especially the ones that cited those folks I knew) that planting millet was legal, but you couldn't hunt over it the first year it was planted. After that, it was perfectly legal. I will for one, not plant and hunt over it the same year...that's just me, I don't want any warden, state or especially federal to say or assume I have done something wrong.
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Sethfish
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(THF Trophy Hunter)
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06/27/08 10:37 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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I'm just going to tell them that I am not in agreement with thier assumptions and I am fully offended by the blantant botanical racism they are showing towards Japanese Millet. Sure I can hunt over American Johnson Grass but not Japanese Kung Pow Millet. WE MUST SPEAK FOR THE RIGHTS OF MILLET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Why waste your time planting, fertilizing, praying for rain, waiting for it to grow, hoping it will seed out, when you can put some corn & milo on your favorite spot 1 week before the season opens?????
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kyotee1
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(Pro Tracker)
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06/27/08 11:20 AM
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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There you go, that there brings them in better anyway, you will have to wait until all evidence of feed/grain is gone, then wait another 10 days until you can legally hunt that location.
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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Quote:
There you go, that there brings them in better anyway, you will have to wait until all evidence of feed/grain is gone, then wait another 10 days until you can legally hunt that location.
10 days nothin', they come in much better a day or 2 after you cover , I mean plant it!!
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Re: Planting Japanese Millet
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