| dirtface |
| (Green Horn) |
| 06/07/08 12:57 AM |
Hate to sound naive...
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...but I have only hunted in Alaska and I need some clarification. Could somebody please explain what is meant by hunting ranches, outfitters, high-fence, low-fence, free range. Also what is a hunting lease? How does one work?
Can a guy just go out in the woods and hunt for these "exotics", or are these critters on farms or what? I get kinda confused trying to figure out the hunting situation down there and I am possibly going to be transplanted to Texas next year. Thanks. dirt.
| Reverendbiker |
| (Outdoorsman) |
| 06/07/08 06:42 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Unlike most other states, there is very little public land available for hunting in Texas; as a result the public hunting areas are usually (but not always) under-gamed and over-hunted. Because of this, hunters must own their own property (an expensive proposition) or pay a landowner to hunt on his place.
These arrangements run the gamut from a yearly lease (you pay the landowner for the rights to hunt on his property for a year) to a season lease (you can only hunt during a particular season, usually for a particular species) to a day lease (you pay to hunt for a day or two). Also popular, though generally more expensive, are guided hunts where you pay the landowner and/or an outfitter to assist you. This will usually involve a flat fee for the service and a "trophy" fee depending on the type and quality of game taken.
For years, most private property was "low fenced", meaning that property lines were established by wire fences 3-4 feet high. These fences were intended to manage livestock but did little or nothing to inhibit movement of game animals. In recent year Texas has seen the proliferation of "high fences" or "game fences", usually made of high-tensile steel mesh and 7-8 feet high, that are designed to contain deer and/or exotic hoofstock such as deer (Axis, Sitka), antelope (Blackbuck) or sheep (Mouflon). These high-fenced operations are still a bit controversial among sportsmen everywhere but are more and more common in Texas. Owners say that the fences give them better control of the wildlife management process and, to be fair, such operations have produced Whitetails that are much larger than in most low-fenced environments.
It's a much different hunting environment that you're accustomed to in Alaska, but most outdoorsmen still find a wealth of opportunity in Texas.
| HuntersAxis |
| (Woodsman) |
| 06/07/08 07:52 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Dirtface, Reverendbiker gave lots of good information. I will try to expand on just a bit of what he said. When it comes to “day leases” or “day hunts” you usually can find some good places to choose from. You can find 2-3 day hunts that are basically “weekend-style” hunts. You can also find some that are a week long. These hunts are offered on all sizes of ranches and in all price ranges.
As far as free-range exotics, you can find them more and more here in Texas. I believe that axis are the most prevalent. I am not aware of any public land where you could have a chance to find axis. However, I could easily be wrong, and if there is public land with them someone here will know where. I do know that on some of the public hunt draws exotics are listed as additional animals that can be taken if you are drawn for that hunt and area. These would be free-range exotics.
There are also more and more places that offer free-range hunts for exotics. These hunts are low-fenced, and your chances of seeing one are like any other hunt. The animals have to cooperate, or you have to be in the right place at the right time.
Hope this helps. If you make it down to Texas I am sure you will find you have tons of hunt choices, and that there are plenty of folks here that will help you get hunting.
| dirtface |
| (Green Horn) |
| 06/07/08 08:02 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Thanks Reverend...that helps clear things up a little. So for the most part we are talking wild animals on these fenced lands, right?
Also, I have read some post that suggest that hogs are some kind of ungulate killer, or at least a deterent. Are they good to eat? Some suggest they dont eat them? They are just ham and bacon and pork chops aren't they? dirt.
| Brother in-law |
| (Extreme Tracker) |
| 06/07/08 08:16 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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they are very good to eat. They are everywhere and will be the cheapest hunt you can find usually. $100-500 . You can kill them with anything imaginable even with dogs pinning them down then you stab them.
| dirtface |
| (Green Horn) |
| 06/07/08 08:36 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Thanks for the info Hunteraxis, you must have posted while I was pecking at the keyboard (I only have one finger on each hand that can find the right keys). One more question... is my .338 rem mag and .454 revolver overkill down there or do I need to replace them with lighter calibers for firearm hunting.
?
| 7mag |
| (THF Trophy Hunter) |
| 06/07/08 08:37 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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90 percent of all Texas land is privately owned. Alaska is more public land. With private land comes leasing, day hunts ect. Fees are paid to the landowner or his outfitter. Leases can be rather high, more so in big buck counties. It is not unheard of to pay $3,500.00 for a south Tx lease. On average I would say 1500 to 2000 is the norm in leasing prices. Again it just depends where its at and what kinda game your looking to hunt. Free range and low fence seem to go hand in hand. It is usually wide open, and deer or any other game are free to cross over onto adjoining properties. Some hunters feel this is the only way to harvest game, some could care less. The high fence debate is another dilema, of sorts. High fence places can be as small as 10 acres, on up to thousands of acres. Some people feel this is not hunting and more of a captavie style slaughter, I guess it depends on the person. Most high fence places have the exotics, more so to keep them inside the fence, and from getting out. High fence is also used for game mgt. and growing big deer or other animals. Exotics are usually bought by the landowner and placed on his property, for hunters. Hogs are consdered a menace by most landowners, and are probably the most afforadble critter to hunt. Hogs and exotics can be hunted year round as they are not a game animal. Day hunts are popular in Tx. Usually weekend hunts for deer, turkey, hogs ect. The hunter pays a fee to the landowner to harvest deer ect. They are usually the cheaper of the hunts, more so because they are doe hunts, cull hunts and such. Hope you enjoy Texas
| dirtface |
| (Green Horn) |
| 06/07/08 09:00 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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I hunt for the experience of hunting to some extent. But my main objective is to put meat in my freezer. That said, aside from hogs what critters out there will give me the most meat? I know an elk or deer(not sure the difference between a mule and white tail)and moose when I see one, but looking thru the websites of these ranches they dont specify different critters by their name in the photo galleries. I am assuming they are all good eating,please correct me if there is any you woudln't want for breakfast, but which will yield the most meat? dirt.
| 7mag |
| (THF Trophy Hunter) |
| 06/07/08 09:06 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Mule deer are usually bigger, even does. They are all good table fare, if you like venison. Exotics like Axis are suppose to be the king of venison, as far as taste, but also higher in price to hunt. Sounds liek you are more of a meat hunter. You may want to look at the public hunts on public land, offered by TPWD.
| HuntersAxis |
| (Woodsman) |
| 06/07/08 10:51 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Dirt, No problem. I hope I can help. As to exotics sizes, outside of “super exotics,” I think it is safe to say red deer and oryx are the largest. I hear red deer tastes like elk, and oryx is supposed to be some of the best eating there is. I do not know of any of these running free here, but you would have your pick of places to hunt them here. New Mexico has draw hunts for free range gemsbok.
In my opinion axis are the biggest “deer size” exotic. A large buck will be over 200 pounds, and a good mature doe will be a solid 60-80 pounds. I love axis meat, and it will spoil you on other types of venison. I like all types of venison though. Fallow are next in line to me. Body wise the large fallow I have seen are comparable to a large whitetail. Sika can really range in size depending on the type.
On needing a new rifle… isn’t any excuse for a new rifle a good one?
Personally, if you are comfortable with what you have use it. I know folks that hunt with everything from 243s to 300 win mags. Go with what works best for you, and adjust your load if you feel it is necessary. I think you will find a lot of shot opportunities here in the 100-200 yard range. Of course there are definite exceptions to this.
| dirtface |
| (Green Horn) |
| 06/07/08 12:55 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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you guys are great. Thanks for the good info. Just one more thing. What is TPWD ?
| Reverendbiker |
| (Outdoorsman) |
| 06/07/08 01:47 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.
| Crazyhorse |
| (THF Celebrity) |
| 06/07/08 02:04 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Welcome to the THF.
Here is the link to TP&W's website: www.tpwd.state.tx.us/
One small clarifacation on something, Texas is 97% privately owned.
In comparison to size, Rhode Island with 7% Public Land, has more Public Land than Texas has, with 3%.
| kwrhuntinglab |
| (THF Trophy Hunter) |
| 06/07/08 06:11 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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90%-97%
It don't matter......fact is, it is pretty private...
| Crazyhorse |
| (THF Celebrity) |
| 06/07/08 06:57 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Just clearing up a piece of information Kent, don't take it so personal.
| campcook |
| (Pro Tracker) |
| 06/08/08 01:48 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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One day, Crazyhorse (Randall) and I (Lora) (We are married, btw) surely do want to go to Alaska to hunt and fish. I saw a PBS show where a lady up there said she was tired of eating moose. How do you get tired of eating moose???
ANYWAY,
If you are looking for good inexpensive hunts, once you are a TX resident, go onto the TPW web site that Randall gave you up above, and get them to send you their Public Drawing Hunt book. You have to put in for the hunt you want, and you do have to accrue pref points, but you can get some really good hunts for fairly cheap. South Llano River State Park has many many varieties of exotics.
The King Ranch, in South Texas, is still a working cattle ranch. However they also get about 50% of their income from selling hunts, both exotic and native. (Randall keeps telling me how much he wants to go on a nilgai hunt, "and the cow hunts are cheap, honey!"
Go online to the Dallas Times Herald and Ft Worth Star Telegram, and check out the ads for cull and meat hunts, usually in December and January. Also, there is a type of permit, called MLD (Managed Lands - Deer) that allows landowners to get rid of excess does. There are, I think 3 levels of MLD - and with the MLD permits, landowners can sell permits as early as October and as late as February. You can get meat for your freezer for as little $200 or so per doe.
Remember that the whitetails in Texas are not as big in general, as other parts of the country. However the area it is from will determine size. In North Texas (along the Red River)deer are fairly decent, in parts of the Hill Country the deer can be fairly small, with deer from the south Texas area averaging larger than most other areas.
Hogs are edible. Look on the archives here for ideas; feral hogs should be trated as GAME meat, not as a domestic hog. Much over 200 lbs and the males are no longer edible - sows are OK at almost any size. And the littler they are, the better!
Welcome to the forum, and welcome to TEXAS!
| hun73r |
| (Bird Dog) |
| 07/02/08 08:26 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Quote:
One small clarifacation on something, Texas is 97% privately owned.
If you really want to split hairs it is actually more like 94.3% according to most state agencies.
Quote from Texas Enviromental Profiles website:
Most state agencies have not accepted this percentage due to the inclusion of submerged coastal lands in the Sunset Commission's calculation. State agencies contend that 94.3 percent of land in Texas is privately held. Therefore, land distribution percentages presented here are based on the assumption that 94.3 of land in Texas is in private hands.
Link to site Below:
Texas Environmental Profiles
| Crazyhorse |
| (THF Celebrity) |
| 07/02/08 10:00 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Thanks for the info. I had never seen those figures quoted, but the fact still remains, Texas has the smallest amount of Public Land in relation to its size than any other state.
| JJH |
| (Tracker) |
| 07/02/08 10:07 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Quote:
In comparison to size, Rhode Island with 7% Public Land, has more Public Land than Texas has, with 3%.
Sorry to be so anal, CH. But I don't believe your numbers can be correct. Texas has about 267000 square miles. 3% of that would be about 8000 square miles. RI has about 1500 square miles total. In fact, Big Bend National Park alone is about the size of RI.
| Crazyhorse |
| (THF Celebrity) |
| 07/02/08 10:16 AM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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No, it is clearly stated in my post, IN RELATION TO ITS SIZE, Rhode Island Has More Public Land Than Texas, PERCENTAGE WISE.
Even with the 94.whatever % figures, 7% is more than 5.whatever %, or 3%.
| jgiles |
| (Veteran Tracker) |
| 07/02/08 09:03 PM |
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Re: Hate to sound naive...
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Dang guys, Hunting season is just around the conner I promise