Bull_Rope
Outdoorsman
Reged: 05/29/08
Posts: 55
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I have a theory that I'm working onregarding how vocal some groups of birds are in areas compared to others....I've hunted all over Texas, Rio Grande birds,and I've noticed that in most places you can usually hear the hens cut an yelp al least a LITTLE during the day. I have a property North of Paducah, Tx right near the South Pease River. we have an ENORMOUS number of birds in the area. The only strange thing is that the only time you ever hear these birds is right as they get off the roost in the morning and heading back into the roost in the evening. I mean MAYBE 5 minutes of vocalization at a time. I thought and thought about why this was and came to this deduction. We also have a LARGE number of coyotes, bobcats and even a couple of mountain lions in the area. I wonder if these birds stay silent through the day because our predator numbers are too high...a "safety" type measure that they have adopted.....What say you?
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whby05
Tracker
Reged: 08/22/06
Posts: 755
Loc: Big Town of Krum, Tx
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i hunt in wheeler county and have hunted birds in collinsworth as well and this past season was the quietest i have heard in years......i thought it was strange. We have predators as well but i dont think in our area we have that many. I am sure there is more there than what we have seen, but i too noticed how quiet it was........
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Txduckman
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 08/30/04
Posts: 5699
Loc: Big D
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Out in Kent county, my buddy was just putting up and a hog is running full speed in the wheat field on the tail of a gobbler. He just made it to the roost. They were videoing and just put up the equipment so they didn't get it on video. There are more hogs out there than predators these days. Another theory too. And the turkeys are pretty quiet except dawn and dusk when you can hear tons of them.
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budreau
Woodsman
Reged: 02/10/05
Posts: 202
Loc: tx. collingsworth
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Quote:
I have a theory that I'm working onregarding how vocal some groups of birds are in areas compared to others....I've hunted all over Texas, Rio Grande birds,and I've noticed that in most places you can usually hear the hens cut an yelp al least a LITTLE during the day. I have a property North of Paducah, Tx right near the South Pease River. we have an ENORMOUS number of birds in the area. The only strange thing is that the only time you ever hear these birds is right as they get off the roost in the morning and heading back into the roost in the evening. I mean MAYBE 5 minutes of vocalization at a time. I thought and thought about why this was and came to this deduction. We also have a LARGE number of coyotes, bobcats and even a couple of mountain lions in the area. I wonder if these birds stay silent through the day because our predator numbers are too high...a "safety" type measure that they have adopted.....What say you?
dang panthers messing up everything.
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highlonesome1
Pro Tracker
Reged: 10/02/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: West Texas
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Another theory I have heard is that some areas (ours inSchleicher county) had an unusually large hatch last year and the large number of jakes was one reason. Three or more jakes will jump a dominant tom to breed with the hens. Combine that with the large numbers of young hens and they stop talking. The toms I observed were working three or more hens. They wern't gobbling but they were strutting. There were also groups of jakes roaming. This year was the toughest hunting in my memory, but we had more birds in the roost this winter than I have seen.
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Smiling Mallard
Bird Dog
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 281
Loc: Rockwall
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Quote:
Another theory I have heard is that some areas (ours inSchleicher county) had an unusually large hatch last year and the large number of jakes was one reason. Three or more jakes will jump a dominant tom to breed with the hens. Combine that with the large numbers of young hens and they stop talking. The toms I observed were working three or more hens. They wern't gobbling but they were strutting. There were also groups of jakes roaming. This year was the toughest hunting in my memory, but we had more birds in the roost this winter than I have seen.
Ditto that! Exactly the same around us.
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"Call 'em up close and shoot 'em in the face"
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Crazyhorse
THF Celebrity
Reged: 11/05/04
Posts: 15982
Loc: Azle, Texas
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Every body seems to have observed different things.
Out at the ranch I do my hunts on, the dominant gobblers would gang up and push the jakes as far from the hens as possible, and would then basically take turns breeding the hens.
Mind you, my hunters were setting watching 100+ birds a day out in an alfalfa field and the breeding strategy was used during the entire time we were actively hunting turkeys.
The hens and jakes would come into the field and then the big gobblers would come in and separate the jakes from the hens and spnd the day keeping those groups separated and taking turns going into the hen flock and doing the breeding.
It may be that because the birds on the ranch do not receive the amount of hunting pressure that birds in other areas do, but it was interesting to watch the behaviors of the birds in those groups.
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Being Mentally Absent is not a Bad thing. Charter Member THF-OFC .
www.shoestringsafaris.com
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Hoytman
Pro Tracker
Reged: 10/06/06
Posts: 1349
Loc: hopkins co
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On my bosses lease this year we had 5 jakes to every longbeard and i personally saw the jakes kick the crap outta the gobblers 3 times in as many days! Unfortunatly for the jakes some wont be with us for next year.
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jrs_39
Tracker
Reged: 03/14/07
Posts: 893
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I have to go along with the jake theory, Every time I set up and called this year, in a short period of time I was swarmed by jakes. Didn't have one gobbler come to the call. I taped one gang of jakes looking for a fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHSaIxN8DE
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NMBlackGold
Light Foot
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 13
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Quote:
I have a theory that I'm working onregarding how vocal some groups of birds are in areas compared to others....I've hunted all over Texas, Rio Grande birds,and I've noticed that in most places you can usually hear the hens cut an yelp al least a LITTLE during the day. I have a property North of Paducah, Tx right near the South Pease River. we have an ENORMOUS number of birds in the area. The only strange thing is that the only time you ever hear these birds is right as they get off the roost in the morning and heading back into the roost in the evening. I mean MAYBE 5 minutes of vocalization at a time. I thought and thought about why this was and came to this deduction. We also have a LARGE number of coyotes, bobcats and even a couple of mountain lions in the area. I wonder if these birds stay silent through the day because our predator numbers are too high...a "safety" type measure that they have adopted.....What say you?
Bull Rope, your theory on predators is most certainly plausible. I can back up your theory from my years of experience hunting Merriams in the mountains of New Mexico, where predators like mountain lions (and other predators) have increased 100 fold in the last 10 years. Let me share a few of examples that may be relavant to your observations.
Example 1: In general, gobblers responding to calls while off the roost has decreased over the period of predator increase.
Example 2: In general, hens (while on the ground) yelping and cutting to gobblers has decreased to simple clucks and purrs (or nothing at all) over the last 10 years.
Example 3: 2005: Observed and scouted a large flock of turkey frequenting a deep, ponderosa pine filled revine. Opening day, set up near their roost only to find no birds. Observed two, large sets of mountain lion tracks in the sand. Birds have yet to return.
Example 4: 2008: Set up near what seemed to be an active roost tree, made one call at first light, two red fox showed up within 30 seconds of my first call. They were persuing by stalking what they thought was a live bird.
Example 5: I have harvested 3 of the 4 subspecies of wild turkey including Rios, in my opinion, because of nearly constant predation, Merriams are by far the "least" vocal of the subspecies.
Example 6: Mature gobblers have become much more "suspicious" or wary of a decoys over this period.
I know the comparison is not quite apples to apples, but hopefully is somewhat releavant to your theory.
Good hunting
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hawglips
Green Horn
Reged: 04/04/07
Posts: 8
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I have noticed that in areas where there are more large predators, there are more turkeys, and more vocal turkeys. Perhaps the large predators (bobcats and coyotes) prey on the skunks, possums, coons, etc that do the most damage to turkey populations.
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NMBlackGold
Light Foot
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 13
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Quote:
I have noticed that in areas where there are more large predators, there are more turkeys, and more vocal turkeys. Perhaps the large predators (bobcats and coyotes) prey on the skunks, possums, coons, etc that do the most damage to turkey populations.
Yes, that would make sense, unfortunally our deer heards have been dessimated my the large predators (mountain lion) disease, and other factors, leaving the wild turkey the most popular target. Having said that, their #s have remained steady, at least were I hunt.
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Crazyhorse
THF Celebrity
Reged: 11/05/04
Posts: 15982
Loc: Azle, Texas
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The key word in this discussion is Theory.
Not only will turkey behavior vary from one state or county to the next, but also can and will vary from one part of a county or even a ranch.
Predators, human interactions and activities in the area, overlapping ranges, numbers of birds, makeup of those numbers i.e. how many of each, mature gobblers/jakes/hens in the area, availability of food and water, closeness of cover and roosting areas, all these factor in to behavior in any particular area.
To try and formulate a blanket theory and state that ALL turkeys behave this way or that is simply not practical or realistic imo.
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Being Mentally Absent is not a Bad thing. Charter Member THF-OFC .
www.shoestringsafaris.com
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safari
Outdoorsman
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 59
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Quote:
I have a theory that I'm working onregarding how vocal some groups of birds are in areas compared to others....I've hunted all over Texas, Rio Grande birds,and I've noticed that in most places you can usually hear the hens cut an yelp al least a LITTLE during the day. I have a property North of Paducah, Tx right near the South Pease River. we have an ENORMOUS number of birds in the area. The only strange thing is that the only time you ever hear these birds is right as they get off the roost in the morning and heading back into the roost in the evening. I mean MAYBE 5 minutes of vocalization at a time. I thought and thought about why this was and came to this deduction. We also have a LARGE number of coyotes, bobcats and even a couple of mountain lions in the area. I wonder if these birds stay silent through the day because our predator numbers are too high...a "safety" type measure that they have adopted.....What say you?
Bull Rope..we will be hunting very close to you in spring 09' How is the turkey hatch going this year? Did you catch any of that rain over the past few days? Thanks
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NMBlackGold
Light Foot
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 13
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Quote:
The key word in this discussion is Theory.
Not only will turkey behavior vary from one state or county to the next, but also can and will vary from one part of a county or even a ranch
Predators, human interactions and activities in the area, overlapping ranges, numbers of birds, makeup of those numbers i.e. how many of each, mature gobblers/jakes/hens in the area, availability of food and water, closeness of cover and roosting areas, all these factor in to behavior in any particular area.
To try and formulate a blanket theory and state that ALL turkeys behave this way or that is simply not practical or realistic imo.
Did someone "state that all turkey behave this way" in the responses?
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Crazyhorse
THF Celebrity
Reged: 11/05/04
Posts: 15982
Loc: Azle, Texas
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Not that I recall, why?
Does it bother you that I simply reminded folks that this discussion was about a Theory on Turkey behavior and that while some behaviors are similar over their whole range, there will be some behaviors unique to certain localities?
Did not mean to offend anyone, just trying to keep things in perspective. 
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Being Mentally Absent is not a Bad thing. Charter Member THF-OFC .
www.shoestringsafaris.com
Edited by Crazyhorse (06/16/08 09:38 PM)
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NMBlackGold
Light Foot
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Not that I recall, why?
Does it bother you that I simply reminded folks that this discussion was about a Theory on Turkey behavior and that while some behaviors are similar over their whole range, there will be some behaviors unique to certain localities?
Did not mean to offend anyone, just trying to keep things in perspective.
From the replies that I read, i think everyone probably understands the concept of a theory. No offense taken
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highlonesome1
Pro Tracker
Reged: 10/02/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: West Texas
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One thing I have learned about turkeys, just when you think you have them figured out they do something different.
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NMBlackGold
Light Foot
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 13
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Quote:
One thing I have learned about turkeys, just when you think you have them figured out they do something different.
Now thats no theory, thats a fact!!!
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Bull_Rope
Outdoorsman
Reged: 05/29/08
Posts: 55
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Safari,
We have a HUGE number of birds in the area. The hatch looks to be very healthy again this year. Our particular spot rests right between a river to the North with lots of large trees for roosting. To the west and southwest there is probably 1500 acres of agriculture (i.e. wheat, hay grazer and alfalfa) and farther southwest...the matador bird sactuary public hunting land. not this winter but the previous I was doing a little glassing of a few fields for mulies when I happened upon a group of turkey that I counted at 125 birds. Granted I DO believe that these were two different flocks that were in the same wheat at the same time..but still...thats alot of stinkin birds. GREAT little spot to hunt. I guided a guy from Mineapolis/St. Paul last year who was looking for his grand slam. We had a limit in an hour and 20 minutes.
As to the theory I brought up. I didnt mean for it to sound like a broad brush stroke for all turkey everywhere. I know how different things are even within the same county. I meant for the theory to cover the pocket of birds that I hunt. I'm sure there are many areas that may have the same set of circumstances and hunters may observe the same types of behavior. Thank for all the input!
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safari
Outdoorsman
Reged: 06/11/08
Posts: 59
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Quote:
i hunt in wheeler county and have hunted birds in collinsworth as well and this past season was the quietest i have heard in years......i thought it was strange. We have predators as well but i dont think in our area we have that many. I am sure there is more there than what we have seen, but i too noticed how quiet it was........
Whby 05..How are bird numbers up in Wheeler/Collingsworth Counties? I spoke with someone who said hail was a big problem in the area between Wellington & Shamrock. Any hatch reports from up that way?
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RICK O'SHAY
Pro Tracker
Reged: 05/27/06
Posts: 1200
Loc: DALLAS TEXAS
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THE VOCALIZATIONS OF TURKEY IN OUR AREA (STRAWN) SEEM TO CHANGE A LOT YEAR TO YEAR AND EVEN DAY TO DAY THROUGH OUT THE SEASON... I SEE NO SET PATERN, SOMEDAYS IT SEEMS LIKE THEY JUST DECIDED TO BE SILENT FOR THAT DAY.
I WAS THINKING MAYBE THEY ARE LIKE FISH (ARE SUPPOSED TO BE) AND ARE EFFECTED BY BAROMETRIC PRESSURE OR MOON PHASES.
I REALLY DON'T HAVE A CLUE...
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IF I AIN'T HUNTIN I'M HUNTIN A PLACE TO HUNT.
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