rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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I have a female lab with ton's of drive and she is about a year and 4 months. She has been force fetched and collar conditioned. The problem I am having is she refuse's to be steady as soon as I shoot she is gone after the bird and will not stay for a release command. On bumper's it is totally different she is steady and will wait for me to say her name. Any help would be great. I do not no were to go from here as this is my 1st dog she is mainly going to be a duck dog but have taken her out 2 time's this week for dove and this is were the problem began.She comes from field trial and hunting blood also not a backyard breeder.
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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I was also told that I should limit her to duck hunting for the 1st complete season of duck hunting. Any thoughts on this??
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duckhunterdfw
Pro Tracker
Reged: 06/19/07
Posts: 1099
Loc: North Texas
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hunt with someone so you can just work her and concentrate on seadiness. NO FUN BUMPERS OR RETRIEVES while you are doing this.if you give them fun bumper and let them not be steady you are going backwards.put a small tab to hold onto on her leash instead of long leash so she doesnt run with it and get a foot/leg stuck in loop.. Hold her with a leash and toss a bumper or bird a few feet in front of you and walk away or walk around it and stop and make her sit.them walk another direction then make her sit.after a minute then let her pick it up.she gets it when YOU are ready for it to be picked up NOT when she wants to.Have someone with another dog pick up some retrieves while she honors. TRUST me get this under control now or it will reaccur in the future. I have a Cosmo son that is a big breaker and is driving me nuts.
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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Trevor it is bella I am talking about she has so much drive for live birds she can not control herself.
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
On bumper's it is totally different she is steady and will wait for me to say her name.
What if you throw a bumper, she is holding steady, then you fire a gun, or a blank gun, will she break then?
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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Any gun fire she is gone and sometime's is missing the mark do to this. She is pretty much steady to the bumper every once in a while she will break but I do not no what to do at the point of break she is retrieving the bird's so what kind of discipline can you do that will not be negative on the retrieve end.
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Any gun fire she is gone
That is what I thought. I'm not going to tell you to burn your dog or not, but I would say if she breaks, bring her back to the line, do not let her fetch that bird unless you give the command.
But here are some things I do to help reinforce my dog not to break. Go to a field with blank gun and bumper, toss bumper, look and focus on the dog while she is holding steady, hold her if you have too, then fire the blank gun. At first she will want to break, she has learned the gun fire means go, so you need to teach her otherwise.
Also, when you throw the bumper, wait 5, 10, or even 15 seconds. She will be jacked up, but then she will settle down a bit, all this helps her old stead and wait for the command.
I even do this a lot when hunting, and did it this past hunting trip. I would shoot a bird, and make her sit 10 to 15 seconds, then send her after she settled down, it teaches discipline. Also, there are many times when you do not want your dog to go right yet, maybe you want to shoot more birds that are in the air. Your dog will settle down, especially when you are duck hunting, your dog is sitting there, she sees a down bird, you are making her wait, then you shoot some more birds, and she settles down, and starts focusing more on marking the birds vs fetching one. Good luck!
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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guy sent you a pm
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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rockman6, got your PM, I will answer your qustion here about burning your dog on a break. Me personally, the only time I would burn my dog on a break would be if I say "no" which is what I do on breaks, and she does not stop, then I would burn her till she stopped, not sure if I ever had to do this with my dog, when I say "no" my dog stops what she is doing. But when you bring your dog back, she is going to feel bad. And if you make her stay and fetch the bird yourself, she will catch on quick that the only way to fetch is on command.
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
I was also told that I should limit her to duck hunting for the 1st complete season of duck hunting. Any thoughts on this??
Why?
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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thanks for the help I will see if this helps.
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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I tell you what happened to my dog her first year hunting, she did great her first season, no problem with breaking till end of season. I got a piece of reed bar like 2 feet long, bent it into a U shape, turned it upside down and stick in the dirt, and put the check cord on that. Then when I knew she would not break (this was dove season), I got rid of the check cord. And she was fine all dove season, never broke.
Then cam duck season, at first she was fine, then probably about month into the season, she started breaking, but funny, she only did it when I was not watching. If I watch her, she would not break, but in a flurry of gun fire and my back was turn, she was gone, I would look up and she was all the way out there. She knew not to break, because she would not break if I put down my gun and watched her, but the second I turn my back, she was gone, and by the time I noticed she broke, she was already out there, sometimes on top of the duck. And by that time, I just said “screw it, she already out there”, well that was my big mistake, I taught her how to get a way with it, and it became a full blow habit. So last season, I corrected it, any time she broke, I brought her back no matter what, that is what you got to do.
But start with the blank gun and bumper, that is very important. Even throw bumper, let it hit the ground, wait a bit, dog is jacked to go, then fire the gun, I would even look at her like I'm about to say her name to go and fire the gun instead. Get your dog to hold steady through all that and you are on your way I think.
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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Might confuse her??? My thought was that a good retriever with alot of drive will retrieve anything.
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Might confuse her???
To hunt dove first? I never heard of that, but I learn something new everyday.
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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how long of a check cord did you use?
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
how long of a check cord did you use?
I used one about 6 to 8 feet  , that will give them a good jolt, one or two times of that and my dog learned.
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rockman6
Outdoorsman
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 76
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thanks again I am going to make one in the morning at the shop and use it in the field and start working her with a blank gun.
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WAL1809
Pro Tracker
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1625
Loc: Texas
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Give a here command and if she doesn't stop light her up.
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www.snakebreaker.com
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FETCH_UP
Tracker
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 683
Loc: Angleton, TX
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Teach her to sit on shot...no bumpers...if its the gun fire thats doing it then you dont need to worry bout adding more factors such as a bumper or bird...simply walk her at heel, say sit, shoot, give a reinforced sit if breaks, then start over...then work towards not telling her sit before you shoot, just shoot then if needed say sit, dont go to this step if she is breaking still on the first way.
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HRCH ACE MH
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Guy
THF Trophy Hunter
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 7934
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Teach her to sit on shot...no bumpers...if its the gun fire thats doing it then you dont need to worry bout adding more factors such as a bumper or bird
That is a good point fetch, any time you can "simplify" to fix a problem, that is always best. 
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MS1454
Outdoorsman
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Houston/Sealy
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4 months and already collar conditioned and FF?! You lab guys dont mess around do ya.
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Gdogg
Tracker
Reged: 02/04/05
Posts: 739
Loc: Austin Texas
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Quote:
4 months and already collar conditioned and FF?! You lab guys dont mess around do ya.
A year and 4 months.
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MS1454
Outdoorsman
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Houston/Sealy
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opps
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FETCH_UP
Tracker
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 683
Loc: Angleton, TX
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That is a good point fetch, any time you can "simplify" to fix a problem, that is always best.
Thats why they pay me the big bucks LMAO!! NOT! 
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HRCH ACE MH
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duckhunterdfw
Pro Tracker
Reged: 06/19/07
Posts: 1099
Loc: North Texas
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do you have a crop or healing stick?light taps on the but or chest while the shot is going off might help.I have seen several trainers use the crop instead of a collar at the line because sometimes if they take off and youburn them all that area become a hot spot or it can even cause them to drive out instead of coming in. Just like alot of trainers use a sling shot or bb gun when forcing to pile to get there momentum up and driving to the pile and a collar can be used the same way just like force to pile with collar.
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