Question about African safaris

I read earlier on here "have you ever been on any hunts which the outcome isn't fortold" and started wondering if African safaris are guaranteed harvests or not. I actually don't know, as i've never been on one. So any answers would be appreciated. Thanks

So are African safaris guaranteed hunts or not?

Well the majority of South Africa&Namibia is fenced. Your going to get your animal.

Hunting in Africa is no different in that regard than hunts in Texas. Some folks offer garantees and others don't. IMHO, if there is a guarantee, then it is not hunting.

The outfitter I use is guarantee. Even the Rhino hunts are money back if no trophy shot

Are you seriously that naive? You have a tough time finding animals in heavy brush on a 500ac HF in Texas - so you think you are "going to get your animal" in 300,000 HF acres in Africa?

I think you have rung the bell for the stupidest comment I've ever read on THF.

Axis and John, where did you hunt in Africa or Texas in a high fence area less than 200 acres?

Africa isn't all high fenced, much of Namibia and South Africa is not, the majority of Texas isn't fenced either, just the hill country and some parts of South Texas.

And to dispell another myth, the odds are that you will get your animal, but they are not guaranteed.

I never got a warthog, and warthogs are among the most common of game. Actually tried very hard to get a warthog and it didn't happen.

Kudu were also tough.

I hunted mostly wild areas, but we did some springbok culling in a fenced area.

I had about 18 blown stalks on zebra before I got one in a wild area, I could have just as easily not got one.

The odds are in both wild and fenced areas of Africa you will take a representative animal of all the species on your list.

Same as any area that has ample trophies in an area. Quality management and limited hunters increases trophy size, same on public, private or high fence.

Overhunting, no management same on public private or high fence.

More or less, your bound to get SOMETHING.

I hunted in RSA, mostly in Limpopo. We hunted low fenced and high fenced places. The smallest was about 3500 acres in very mountainous. Ain't nothing easy or garanteed - in fact, on the 3500ac place we saw a big Kudu one afternoon that LO had never seen and we never did find it again in the 7 days we spent on that concession.

I've hunted HF ranches all over Texas from 175 acres to over 5000. Even doing axis doe hunts on some of the smaller places (175-400), we gad times where we never saw or got a shot opportunity even after a whole weekend.

We have a winner. I have personally lost deer on a small 100acre HF place. My dad and uncle have lost 1 maybe 2 on a 90 or 130acre HF place.
Thanks Roo Basher. That's some good info
IMPLIED FACEPALM well NO DUR?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
Is it guaranteed or "your bound to get something"? I'm sorry man but you've had 2 really stupid comment on the same post within 20mins of each other. That's really hurting your credibility and/or respect on here.

Guarantee?

What are we talking about exactly? No game no pay? Or that the death of animal is guaranteed?

Almost everyone in Africa is no game no pay. A similar situation to many hunt in Texas for exotic wildlife. Unless you are on a package, but in the case of my warthog I got an ostrich instead. So I shot the same number of animals they just did a trade.

Is the death of an animal guaranteed? No. On any sizeable hunting property in the world it wouldn't be.

I personally have no interest in hunting a small property. I have done it once before and I won't do it again.

Would I cull wildlife under that kind of situation? Of course I would do it, as I have killed my own cattle, sheep and goats on our small pastures when necessary. This isn't hunting, and shouldn't be labed as such.

Hunting doesn't have a guaranteed end to the story.

YUP. If it does then it's not hunting..

Read my signature:

I have hunted an array of HF and LF ranches all around Namibia on 2 separate safaris. I shot a lot of animals, but nothing is guaranteed. You will shoot things, but it wont necessarily be what you are looking for. The easier hunts were actually the ones held on LF places. All that matters is the pickiness level of each client. I saw every species of animal I wanted to kill over all that time, but did not necessarily kill what I wanted. Never got a burchells zebra, lechwe, giraffe, or nyala not because we couldn't find them, but we could never locate a solid mature animal.

Five trips to Africa, both free range and high fence, and I have yet to take a bushbuck or waterbuck. I have of course seen both, but never had a chance at a trophy male of either.

My last hunt in RSA I chased hunted Kudu for 5 days straight before I ran across a good bull, found him the morning I was leaving. 60k LF place in the Richmond Valley

I know several folks that had to go back a couple times for Leopards.

4 trips still have not shoot all of the animals that I have wanted to take is Africa. I think it is what you make it who you hunt with etc. Most of the ranches are large and it is a real hunt.

I can't wait until I have 4 trips of hunting in Africa.

I have only been hunting once. Flew into Windhoek, hunted for 10 days in the Khomas and Kalahari and flew out through Johannesburg.

Lived in Djibouti in East Africa, no love for that place. Well all of Africa is interesting in even dank armpits like Djibouti.

Africa is like hunting in any other place (and let us use Africa to mean places like Mozambique, Zimbabwe, and Tanzania, not South Africa which is more like a super-sized version of Texas in most places). Africa's habitat supports several species of animals, however, most of those species are more specialized in where they like to live. You will most likely see some sort of animal as you go around hunting, but it may not necessarily be the species you are after. When I was there, I saw common duikers and baboons everywhere. Never saw a red duiker or bushbuck like I wanted, but saw eland, hartebeest, impala, warthog, oribi, and a few other animals I was not after. The cape buffalo, which was my main focus lived in an area that only it and common duikers lived in. I spent 4 days hunting buffalo without success, took a day off and hunted a different area for plainsgame, then went back to buffalo and didn't shoot one until the literal end of day 6. I took day 7 to just enjoy Africa and flew home day 8.

I thought Africa would be like hunting in a zoo, but I found it not to be so. You will see animals, but it is very possible to go home without your main animal.

Ok thanks y'all

That's a complicated question kid, and it depends on the country, the animal, the property, and the arrangment made. First of all, while there is high fence everywhere, with the exception of RSA the properties that have them are HUGE, involving at least tens of thousands of acres. You'll see more in RSA. While they occur in Namibia they are the exception.
For most plains game, on free range land, there will be a very good chance you'll get an opportunity that is decent but you'll be hunting multiple species and will have a license ( tags ) for them all. Getting 5 of 6 is not bad. I've hunted for Eland three times and never got one. Had to hunt for Sable twice and didn't collect on a Blue Wildebeest X 1. Stuff like Bongo is tough hunting and a 50 to 75% chance. Also unless you have a package, the hunting is on a daily rate which you pay no matter what and a trophy fee per animal. For packages what you shoot is what you collect.
Dangerous game is a bit different and if it's the prime animal and you don't get it, many outfitters want you back and will offer a discount on returning. Dangerous game is expensive and competive and the outfitter and booking agent doesn't want a black mark on him. For the hunters it's not their first rodeo and most are experienced, with the exception of cape buffalo. With elephant, most PH's don't want an amateur and are not likely to get one considering the nature of the beast. Guys who are going after specific animals, tuskers in the 80+lb range are willing to pay anything, can afford it, don't care what it costs and will hunt at least once or twice a year. Leopard is also hard hunting with no guarantee. Craig Boddington, the famous hunting writer went several times before he bagged one. Many times leopard can be an opportunity hunt, offered at the time of the hunt or IF it presents itself. Finally there are PAC hunts which means problem animal control. These are hunts that usually become available at the time of your hunt. Instead of game rangers taking the animals they'll offer this to a hunter present for a set fee if he collects.

Excellent explanation "quartierleblanc". All I want to add to this is in Africa there are animals HF can't control(unless you bury it real deep) such as warthog which goes under and also leopard and monkeys which can go over any easily.There are also small antelope species like dik-dik or steinbock which are already present inside most of the high fenced areas.

Doesn't sound like the hunting in Zimbabwe that I've done. You book a "package" of dangerous game and plains game; or maybe just plains game. Ele, cape buffalo and leopard/lion have their own packages. You can shoot one animal or a dozen as opportunity presents itself of the plains game and if the stalk goes in your favor. If you do wound your cape buffalo or any other game animal and it cannot be retrieved, you pay the trophy fee for it - simple as that. There are no refunds or promises of guaranteed kills. We hunted on the Save Conservatory which is roughly 1 million acres with a single fence around its outside perimeter and NO cross fencing. We hunted a small 23 mile by 17 mile section of this conservatory. Except for a few animals that the PH wants to protect because they are recovering from a disease like distemper, you hunt without "permits" for specific species of animals. Different countries over there have different rules. At the end of the hunt, you square-up with the PH/game managers on your trophy fees, dipping/packing fees, and tips.

I think the gotcha with "guarateed" or package hunts in Africa is that the package doesn't really garantee the quality of animal you are going to take.

For example, if the package garantees you a Kudu, you are probably going to get a shot opportunity at a Kudu. But it may only be a 35-40" animal. Some outfitters may say to the first time, inexperience safari hunter, "There's your Kudu" and bam, you get your trophy - only discover after you get home that it isn't really that much of a trophy - at least, horns-wise.

Now if an outfitter offers a package with a garantee that the animals will all be gold-medal, then I am all ears! And some do, at least for some species.

When we booked our trip, it was clear between us and our PH that we were interested only in gold medal class animals. And the PH was fine with that - it is what he wanted to hear from his clients, and fits in with his hunting.

We paid more - but 6 out of 9 animals were gold medal, and the remaining were high silver (and zebra wasn't rated), almost gold. All animals involved lengthly stalks, often pursuing a single animal for miles that met the criteria.

The "gold" criteria we had in place wasn't so much about the horn size, but involved the idea that we wanted the hunt to be challenging.

And while it is true that many areas in RSA are high-fenced, that comment is really misleading. A 100,000 acre parcel high-fenced is really like no fence at all.

That is not to say that there aren't areas in RSA that have only 1000-2000 acres under HF with hundreds of animals on it. You can get a pretty cheap package hunt on those places. But most of the outfitters that we checked into aren't like that - you can hunt a week and never see the fence.

I think most people that say HF in South Africa isnt a big deal just dont care about the fence being there. Many ranches in SA offer hunts for animals not indigenous to the area and are only there and ALIVE because of supplemental feeding, water and that fence. I am not saying that is true across the board, but it turns me off of S Africa. I just dont get going to Africa and hunting a fenced place. I would rather hunt 4 solid animals free ranging than 20 behind a fence, even if its 200k+ acres. I've tried to convince myself to just do it, but I can't at this point in time. To me, its the principal. I know many wont agree with me, and I have no problem with people hunting those areas, its just not for me. Texas I would and DO hunt high fence quite often, but for Africa it just doesnt jive with what I expect from an experience there. Any put and take turns me off in a place as majestic for hunting as Africa... maybe I just read too many books LOL

I gotta agree with bhtkevin on this topic. Im like him in that I guess I read too many books as a kid about Africa being wild and untamed.

Guys you really don't understand or appreciating the size. Lets say you are "free range" hunt SE of Frederickburg on a 1000 acre ranch. But is that really "free range"? There is HWY 290 the north about 7 miles away. And there is HWY281 to the east around 10 miles, and I-10 to the south 15 miles. These three highways completely enclose a triangle area and the area next to the roadways in this area are virtually fenced in. There are walls, chain link, office building, and even a few game fences.

So, thinking the way you are, ANYONE hunting in the area is not free range hunting. The experience is bogus because the animals are "trapped" behind the "fence"!! See how ridiculous that is? That - hopefully - will give y'all an appreciation if the size/scale of the HF in Africa.

Secondly, the HF places DO NOT supplemental feed. That is a big deal over there. The area are kept like preserves, kept completely natural. No water, feed, etc. They are very proud and serious about that.

Third, it is NOT put-and-take hunting. While there may be some small hobby ranches of a few thousand acres that do that, no respectable PH is going to be involved in that. In fact, I THINK that PHASA rules prohibit it.

Fourth, while some outfitters over there are beginning to hunt from "hides" (blinds) and even some are doing the unthinkable of hunting water holes - most stay true to what they refer to as a "proper hunt".

Fifth, most land owners have strict rules and ethics and refuse to have animals on their property that are not natural to the area. It only makes sense, since they don't feed, water, or manage (in the Texas) sense - if the species is not natural to the area, it probably won't survive or flourish.

Sure, there are some outfitters over there with "small" hobby ranches of 3000 acres who stock put-and-take, hunt from blinds, feed and water, etc. and offer cheap hunts. Just like there are "marginal" outfitters like Thompson Temple or the Wildlife Ranch here in Texas.

But when you discount ALL of Africa hunting because you hear "high fence" and prejudge all the PHs, low fence ranches, gigantic preserves - its akin to equating Thompson Temple to the Chittam Ranch. Or saying most of Texas hill country is high-fenced (which is true) and saying anyone hunting the hill country is unethical because the animals are trapped by fences, cities, towns, highways, etc.

It makes me really upset and angry to hear folks - who have NEVER been - sit atop their high moral horse and discount Africa hunting with smug satisfaction all because the words "high fence".

I GARANTEE you, if you ever did a proper hunt in Africa - even on a 100,000 acre preserve - you will realize that hunting on your little puny 500 acre section/part of your "free range" lease in Texas, from a stand or tripod, over a food plot or corn feeder that the animals have learn to pattern - is the lazy unethical hunting - not HF hunting in Africa.

I get sick when I watch a TV hunting show and they show some Africa hunt and the dude are sitting in blind, hunting over a water hole, with clearly hay thrown out, and you see all sorts if animals show up. I SCREAM at the TV "That's NOT Africa!!!" What a huge misconception, fraud, and disservice they putting on the public. It's not what the Africa experience is all about.

To give you another perspective on size. Lets say you put a fence up on the south side of I-10 all the way from Katy to San Antonio. On the south border, you fence from Katy to Halletsville, then west up through Gonzales, swinging south of Seguin, and join up with the north fence at San Antonio.

That fences in about 8000 sq miles. Takes you about 3 hours to drive the north border at 60mph.

That is the size of one of the preserves in Africa.

Get the idea of scale now?

OK, that is one of the largest. Too large to comprehend? Try this one.

Fence north side of I-10 from Kerrville to Comfort. Then up 87 on the west side to FredericksBurg. Then down 16 to Kerrville. That is about the size of one of the "HF Ranch" we hunted on. At 60mph, it'll ONLY take you about 30 minutes to travel one side of the ranch. OK, now drive halfway on 87 between Comfort and Fredericksburg. Get out of the truck, and WALK back SW to Kerrville looking for animals, and when you run across the tracks of specific animal, follow those tracks until you find the animal. That will give you a fair approximation of a typical proper hunt we did in Africa. Repeat for 10 days.

In that 10 days, your goal is to stalk and shoot : (1) a Whitetail 150" or better, (2) an Axis at least 30", and (3) a boar hog with cutters of at least 6".

THAT would be a good approximation of a African safari. No problem? Animals don't have a chance! You are "going to get your animal". Not free range so it is easy and no challenge, right? Just like shooting fish in a barrel. And of course, it doesn't come near to the challenge and difficulty of sitting in your heated box blind and popping a good whitetail that comes to your feeder 80 yards away, does it?

I think you are mistaking me for someone who cares how you choose to hunt. I really dont care, that is you personal choice. If you think the reasons you listed are valid, then go for it. My choice is more of out what I feel Africa should be in my heart, and that doesnt involve fences everywhere. Because of that, I will avoid South Africa when I go. Thats a choice I can freely make and you can rant all you want, its not going to change my mind. Ask me in 30 years, I might have changed my mind.

John,

If you keep up with my posts on this forum at all....you will clearly understand I have absolutely no problem with high fences, exotic hunting, etc... I have done a lot of it.

However, your last two posts above have been somewhat exaggerated, and do not depict hunting in South Africa accurately.

First of all, there are roughly 9,000 privately owned game ranches in South Africa....with the average size being about 3,000 hectares (7,500 acres). That is a nice size chunk of bush....with plenty of room for animals to offer great hunting experiences, but that is a far cry from the 5 MILLION+ acre "preserve" you referred to. As far as I know there is no single piece of land anywhere in South Africa that is even close to that size. Hell even Kruger National Park isn't that big!!

There are also places that supplemental feed in RSA. I would say that isn't "the norm" necessarily....but you can't simply say that it doesn't occur.

There is also a lot of put-and-take hunting in RSA. I have no idea if it is prohibited by PHASA or not, but it happens on a regular basis.

And while there are some huge ranches where they spend all day walking/tracking/glassing etc...that is definitely not "the norm" on your average game ranch in South Africa. Most hunts are conducted by driving around until game is spotted at a distance, and then a stalk is planned. Nothing at all wrong with that....that's just how it is done.

I have no clue where you get the idea that landowners don't introduce non-indigenous species to their properties in South Africa. There are literally HUNDREDS of ranches that do this....where do you think all the Red Lechwe come from?? Lechwe were not indigenous to any part of South Africa.

.....now with all of that said....

I completely understand your frustration, and just like you, I also get a little pissed off when I hear someone talk about how "easy", "unfair", or "trapped" animals are when hunting behind a high fence. It doesn't matter whether you're on this side of the big pond, or in Africa....high fences are simply a management tool and, when used properly, do not make hunting any less challenging or sporting. But like in any industry, there are always a few bad apples....and we can't pretend they don't exist.

I think most people understand that large fenced properties are still a blast to hunt, and offer completely fair-chase hunting experiences. I just don't think it's necessary to exaggerate how things really are....and try to make it sound like every game ranch in South Africa is going to resemble Teddy Roosevelt's safari in East Africa a hundred years ago. Those days are long gone, and will never return. Let's just embrace the way things are done nowadays and support it.

I don't want you to think I'm trying to discredit your argument....not at all!! I am on your side, and agree with your position....just not the way you presented it.

Wade, I was trying to make a point.

Kruger, with the new annex, is roughly 8000 sq miles, up from 7600
(Sabi Sands addition - no fence anymore) and a lot of the bordering fences to preserves bordering Kurger have been removed to incorporate them in Kruger.

Yes, there are more and more "small" areas under fence, and a lot of them are indeed put-and-take. But talk to the big outfitters over there and you will get an earful on what the prevailing opinions are on doing that.

I'm sure I will never convince some people - and my responses were not aimed at the previous posters. Of course they are entitled to their opinion and be guided on what is in their hearts. I respect that.

Rather, I was trying to point out counter opinions to the thousands that read these posts. I am sad to think some will never experience Africa because of ignorance and prejudice anytime the word "high fence" is used. I would find it a great tragedy if someone read these posts - by folks who have never been there - and decide not to go because they think the hunting is easy, unfair, unethical, and the animals are trapped.

There are many who have notions and opinions like the previous poster. Ideas fostered by a lack of appreciation having never been there.

You see, I have heard MANY people who of that opinion who go to Africa and come back with a complete 180 on their position. Most really. I only say "most" because I have NEVER heard of ANYONE going there feeling that way and come back feeling the same. NEVER - but maybe there is somebody.

Most folks who make the trip come back in such awe of the wide open spaces, the wild and wooly nature, and the beauty of the country that they vow to return as soon and as much as possible. Africa gets under your skin, and you have to BE there to understand.

Many come back and say "Gee, I really never noticed a fence once we entered. Very common statement.

Trying to convince people with the "high fence" judgements based upon their limited experience in Texas is like trying to explain rainbows to earthworms. I should stop trying I guess and be happy that I have had the experience.

Sure, there less than optimal ranches over there that offer "canned" hunts. But that doesn't mean they are ALL that way, nor even the majority. You can book a safari and never hunt anything but LF properties - especially for certain species. You can make the hunt as wild and tough as you want. Most of the well known outfitters have concessions on MANY concessions across the entire country. If you wanted a totally free range hunt for 60" kudu, you can book it!! Heck, I'll refer you to my PH!! We did!!

The point being is that anyone who is turned off of Africa because they have preconceived notions if HF everywhere and garanteed hunts on easy, trapped animals is missing the hunting experience of a lifetime. And I hate to see some assmaster convince people due to these misinformed prejudices.

Agreed!!

I can't wait to make my way over there....soon hopefully!!

Let's go Wade!

The way I have been feeling lately with stuff going on, I could go tomorrow - need to be back in the bush for my sanity.

Just give me 2 hours to pack!

Fun with numbers....

If there are 9000 private game ranches with an average size of 7500 acres, that means:

(a) More than 4500 ranches are LARGER than 7500 acres

(b) If 500 stock non-indigious game, that is less than 6% - meaning over 94% do not - more than 8400 ranches do not.

I am actually trying to decide between Azerbaijan Dagestan Tur hunt this year or Namibia plains game... the cost is a wash, just depends on what you are looking for. I keep saying I should do Tur because its a good motivator to work out and it will be very hard when I am older, but Africa is calling.... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh okay....I saw your post recently on Accurate Reloading on this very subject. Namibia definitely gets my vote...no question about it.

Haha....not really. The occasional 50,000 acre and 100,000 acre properties skew the numbers a lot. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the ranches in South Africa are under 10,000-15,000 acres (which is still very large compared to most ranches in Texas).

Also, I believe there are WAAAAAAY more than 500 of them that stock non-indigenous species.

BHTKevin,

I'll say this about both scenarios you can pick a side on your own.

Azerbaijan (which I have never been to, but spent a great deal of my life in Turkey and Afghanistan) is probably the single greatest mountain hunt in Asia for the under $10,000 price point.

It's also the spoke of regularly as the toughest mountain hunt in the world. A tur is a wonderful trophy, but I don't think you should go unless they offer you more than 1 ram, and you can afford to take more than 1. As you might not want to do it again. But more importantly the cost of the hunt is enough that an extra trophy fee or two isn't going to break the bank on todays prices. Tur hunting will get more expensive, and may close.

Namibia is a system of game ranches, I enjoyed my Namibia safari immensly. The PH I hunted with was crap, and we fought everyday. Africa as an experience was amazing, and while I am sure that Ajierbaijan will be amazing, it won't be Africa amazing.

Namibia is more bang for the buck, but saying that Ajerbaijan is a mountain hunt.

Mountain hunts are special, anywhere you take them, they may not offer the experience of African safari relaxation. And you will kill yourself for 25 inches of horn, but that goat(goats) will be worth more to you than the kudu you shot 200 yards from the truck, even if he is 60 inches.

What's the full list of non Indigenous game in South Africa?

Let me assure you the high fence does not make any difference in the wildness of the animals. If the HF makes any difference it is in the numbers of the animals. Herds of Red Hartebeasts, wildebeasts, gemsbok and even kudu with 20-50 head means 50 or so pair of eyes watching and believe me they know when you are in their danger range but they will not be there long. Our trip to Namibia in 2011 was a tough hunt and we were hunting upwards of 200K acres.

Many of the "non-indigenous" animals being referred to are only non-indigenous to certain areas of the country. For instance, Gemsbok are not indigenous to the KwaZulu Natal province....but there are still ranches that stock them there. The same goes for Nyala....they are not indigenous to Western Cape, but some landowners still stock them there (there are even a couple places in Namibia with Nyala). That is how it is with many different species in South Africa.

Other species such as Lechwe, Fallow Deer, Scimitar Oryx, etc... are considered "exotics" to the entire country.

Oryx safaris has:

Mouflon, Nubian Ibex, Tahr, Arabian Oryx, Scimitar Horned Oryx, hog deer, axis deer and a few others.

They even have some bison and cape buffalo in the Kalahari.

Kind of like having bison in the Mojave desert.

I have been four times, and have never been guaranteed a specific animal. I was guaranteed opportunities, but not the animal itself. Cat hunts are especially not guaranteed. We were in a great area in Tanzania for lions this past summer, and only one of four in our group killed one. Everyone killed good leopards.

Been over 6 times, and done a number of different hunts from Tanzania concessions to Tx-style fenced ranches in RSA. My opinion is that you take what Africa gives you, and that's the joy of hunting there. Some of my very best African trophies are animals that I wasn't seeking out or hadn't even thought about taking till I got over there. I also have several that I have been trying for on almost every trip and haven't gotten.

On a side note saying 'African hunting' and lumpping it all together is like saying 'North American Hunting' and lumpping it all together. There's as wide a spectrum of opportunities as you'll find anywhere in the world. Some hunts are highly specialized chasing one or two species, and many more are very generalized with a laundry list of opportunities - great thing is there's an opportunity for every hunter's preferences.

To me the little canids are a big draw. I got a African wildcat and a neat skunk in 2005, and I'd like to get the foxes, an aardwolf and more than anything a civet.

Heck I'd rather have a civet than a leopard.

"Arabian Oryx, Scimitar horned Oryx"

Great way to pollute the Native gemsbok herds..

Great,

Does anyone tell you what type of taxidermy to buy for the wall, why would you tell someone what to raise on their ranch?

Settle down champ.....there are only a few places with those species, and they are kept safely behind a fence. Good lord.

This is what makes Africa exciting.

Awesome! Beautiful guns too! Don't think I'm quite ready for a daggar boy yet, want to make one more trip for some plains game - then I'll be ready.

I'm ready for one now....it's just my wallet that's not quite ready.

What rifles are laying next to that buffalo?

Nice photo by the way, Waidmannsheil!

Heym 470 Nitro, and a 505 Gibbs.

Do it before you find Mrs Eland Slayer, love my wife and kids but I was able to do a lot more big expensive hunts before I got married and we started having kids.

That or find a mildly attractive female doctor that hunts. If she's too attractive that Lincoln beard might cost you down the road.

[I'm ready for one now....it's just my wallet that's not quite ready. [/quote]

I have killed 8, and it gets better with each one. This was my biggest, at 46 Inches.

Another good bull, this one from South Africa, next to Kruger park.

Fine old bull!!

Hi All

I rep a ranch outside of Bloemfontein SA...trust me these ranches are huge!!! The last time i hunted there was in 11 and in the 9 days i was there i never saw the end of the low fence boundary. This is safari style hunting...driving in a truck or walking until you spot the game your after and then the stalk begins. No kill is guaranteed , but trust me, if your willing to work and hunt hard you WILL get your game- this is real hunting, not a canned hunt. I love the pic of that cape buffalo- all scarred up..he looks like a real monster. I have a ton of pics, but have no idea how to post. Anyway if ya ever get a chance to go to SA to hunt...GO...trust me it will be a trip of a lifetime!!!

No man can understand hunting until you have hunted and taken a Cape Buffalo.

I have done all kinds of hunts in Africa. But the "wildest" was in Zambia. No fences of any type. Cape Buffalo, Hippo, Leopard and Lion were seen in daytime, all casually walking about. I know those animals had never seen a white man before.

We walked along the Luangwa River.

Nothing can compare. Dale O'Neal

Lot's of good info here. I am also planning my first trip to Africa next year. According to Dan Donarski's book, the key is to avoid package hunts. That way you are paying for the hunt, and don't pay the trophy fee until you actually kill something.

You are paying for the experience of hunting Africa. I have never heard or read about anyone being completely skunked; maybe it has happened, I dunno. But if all you want to do is harvest,you can stay here in Texas and do it a lot cheaper. Just my .02.

I've been to Africa a couple of times. Both times archery hunting only. Sitting over a waterhole isn't the same as spot and stalk, although I did some of that as well. But what's so cool about Africa and sitting a water hole is, you just never, ever know what's going to walk up. It could be just about anything, if you're hunting the right ranch or concession, that is. You could be specifically looking for a Red Hartebeest but you may never see one, but you're pretty much guaranteed to see some very interesting game coming to get a drink. It's up to you if you take them or not.

On my final evening at one location, back in 2010, I had two giraffe come to water. There I am in a tiny little blind, sitting 20 yards away, and these HUGE giraffe's come in for a drink. Turns out they hung around for almost an hour until it was dark. I got to observe them, take pictures, video, watch them squat to drink, they spooked a few times and ran off but came right back. It was just the coolest thing ever to see these magnificent animals in their natural state.

You just never know what's going to walk up and that's what makes Africa so exciting. From the birds, to the mongooses, to the plains game or baboons to the dangerous game and even cats and hyenas. Gotta love it! Can't wait to go back...soon as I have the $$$'s.