Quail everywhere this year

I have seen more quail this year than I have in several years. Almost ran over a covey of about 30 of them this morning, and have been seeing them all over the place...from Haskell all the way down to Coleman. Hopefully their populations are picking back up and will be a good year. I'm just wondering if we should let them gain strength for another year or two before hunting them hard again. Any thoughts?

hunt judiciously, never know what will happen next year.

I gave up my gun several years ago, but you guys can have at it. I don't think you can stockpile them.

I just like the dog work.

Very few in Callahan County.

Just don't shoot into small coveys, and limit yourself to one or two singles.

I haven't hunted singles in years, but I understand what you're saying.

Great to hear. It is certainly not this way everywhere, but great to hear!

The natural mortality rate of quail is around 80% annually regardless of whether they are hunted or not. The little guys just don't stick around that long. Enjoy a great quail season and some fine eating.
There will be birds when conditions are right.

I don't want to spoil all the excitement but aren't the quail being seen now the same quail as there would have been last year, excluding any bumble bees?

Don't throw rocks at me, just asking.

Ha! Good question; and the answer, technically, and obviously, is yes. But we get excited seeing numerous nesting pairs, especially when compared to what we saw last spring/summer.
I was thinking that it's kind-of late, though, to still be seeing a covey, and I'm not really sure if that's actually a good sign or not.

My question: what about bumblebees?

Bees are disappearing also.

But I think he's talking about chicks.

Fat chicks

Was out there the 22 of May saw birds paired up birds whistling a hen doing the broken wing. Stayed on the roads but did cross the pasture to get to another road and got up a week old bird.
Birds could be 4 to 5 weeks old. Now that could have been his covey. Surrogator release birds at 5 weeks and they can fly well enough and you might think they were grown birds.

The bigger question is - how many will be around in December and Jaunary?

Yep agree.....

I really believe a lot of that is because of the boll weevil program. We lost the quail population at about the same time the BW program was in it's second year. Same with horny toads. Now we are beginning to see a slow comeback.

They have done multiple eradication hunts on hogs in the last couple of years and have killed thousands and I am sure that has gone a long way to the population recovering.

Could have a lot to do with it.

Been seeing quite a few pairs up in the panhandle. Next week I will go up and hopefully see some chicks running around.

We saw a LOT of birds this weekend at our place north of Dryden. Saw 2 coveys with chicks running, then they took off flying, we had never seen chicks fly, pretty cool!

We have a 100, 200, and 300 yard range set up, and they will come right out and walk in front of our targets, while we are shooting. Always in pairs so far.

Some are still nesting and some have chicks, lots of rain so far it just might be a good year. Didn't hunt any quail last year or the year before. Whats strange is this is Blue Quail country and I'm seeing mostly Bob's.

Heard a quail behind my house this week. First one in 3-4 years.

We always get worked up during dove season. We see bobs and blues all over the spots we dove hunt.

Then come quail season, not one peep. Every dang year.

Elusive little buggers. I know they are out there somewhere, but they must have calendars.

they know what you're planing.

Saw and heard quite a few north of Albany the past month or so..

It's called the "Fall Shuffle", and noone I've heard of seems to understand just how it works.

WNPH.., has the right idea. Oklahoma wildlife department has a great publication on quail. They basically say, if you see them, shoot them, because their odds of living through the next year are, as WNPH said, about 20%.

Enjoy the season, and understand, you're not harming their opportunity to regenerate, environmental conditions have much more impact. If you don't hunt them, and you have bad weather, they won't be there next year anyway...

I'm down around Big Lake and most places down here have mostly blues too. I'm seeing about 50/50 on this new place.

And one of the reasons I think we don't ever have years so bad we can't hunt here is that we don't have any hogs to speak of. Choppers are hard on any hogs we see or hear of.

Intersting... How do they base this information? And if this is true, it sucks!

It does not seem to true where I hunt, plus I hate to kill a hen at the end of the season. That could be the hen which was to be a double clutcher.

Well boys I've been out off the board for a year or so now, and I'm back. We have heard more quail call this summer, than I can remember since I started remembering.;) But we have sold off all of our cows due to the rain not hitting right back in the winter. I believe this has helped us more than anything. This spring and summer the birds have had knee high native grass for cover. I have only hunted wild birds on our place once, I was 15, I'm 28 now and looking forward to having dogs on the ground this winter.

Makes no sense after 4 or 5 down years, don't care who says it.

If you can show me how to identify the 80% that are not going to make it I will sure shoot those but I do not want to take a chance on shooting any of the 20% that are going to make it.

It will be interesting to see this play out on my south Texas ranch. We have had several bad years in a row. I don't feed them, or do any quail management.

And yet, the place was so good in 2000 that W was supposedly going to hunt it to relax after the election. Florida kind of ruined his quail hunting plans. FYI, I didn't own the place then.

But anyway, we haven't hurt the quail since I bought it in 2006.
I will tell you though that we have had a couple of falls where there were a couple of coveys at each deer feeder in October, and you would have a hard time finding any by Feb. And I attribute that to the vigilant patrol of those stinkin dark brown redish hawks. Always a pair of them at the feeders. In fact, those deer feeders would be better classified as hawk feeders at times.

There is an old saying "don't believe everything you read". That 80% mortality is just an old wildlife management theory, an estimate of survival. Just because you don't see or hear wild quail in area doesn't necessarily mean that they all died.

In the good old days like in the mid 1960's and 1970's when quail were everywhere, that old 20% survival theory might have made sense. But with all the predators in the wild now days and the drought, shooting all the quail you see is not sound advice.

There is a saying about science, as well.

I have no dog in this fight, except to promote smart management practices, and have everyone have fun hunting. My dad's post-retirement position puts him on our state board for Pheasants Forever. He is in weekly contact with biologists. To support my statements, I'd encourage you all to contact your Texas PF farm bill biologists:

Jordan Menge jmenge@pheasantsforever.org (806) 664-0608
Curtis Greene, Cgreenene@pheasantsforever.org.

Both will tell you scientifically what I am not qualified to articulate.

From Quail Forever website: "Bobwhites are what ecologists refer to as an r-selected species, which means they are subject to high annual mortality rates but are able to offset this mortality with high reproductive rates. Nesting loss is fairly high at 60-70%. Females will re-nest until successful or until it becomes too late in the season. With persistent nesting, 75% of females will produce young. Chick mortality is about 30%. Most deaths occur within the first two weeks of life, when the young are most vulnerable to weather. The life expectancy of the bobwhite quail is less than one year."

If Quail Forever has less of a vested interest than us average guys in producing more quail, then I guess I am just a big dummy.

If you are hunting, and you have enough response skill to shoot just males, well, you're increasing your odds. But, SCIENCE says, the birds you don't shoot at will be dead before next year anyway.

Don't take my word for it, call the biologists! It's what they are there for, and they are great individuals. But don't call me a liar, or say I am spreading myths and wive's tales...I've done my research, and I am passionate about upland birds.

Sorry, Curtis' info didn't copy...cgreene@pheasantsforever.org (806) 664-0680. Give them a call, chat, and get advice! Our collective donation dollars and everyone's tax dollars are paying for it! Get your money's worth!

I've heard the same thing from Wildlife Biologists in the past as well, still I meet some people who just won't believe it. We have A LOT of quail on our place this year, looking forward to a good season hopefully. I think selling all of the cows has made a difference too.

No where have I seen a study that even remotely states 80% of the quail that are alive january 1 will be dead May 1 whether we hunt them are not. In very poor years the season should be closed in January so that the quail alive at that point will have a better chance to survive and become productive parents in the spring and summer.


"If you are hunting, and you have enough response skill to shoot just males, well, you're increasing your odds. But, SCIENCE says, the birds you don't shoot at will be dead before next year anyway."

But not the next breeding season.

Hey punkin, I've heard the 80/20 thing since I was a kid, it's nothing new or insightful, but we're in the middle of a real down turn in our quail numbers and fighting to make a comeback. Numbers are low in most areas. If you're hunting one of these depressed areas then go shoot them up and see if you get "your tax $$ worth" next year.

If you own land where birds are plentiful than have a good season, but urging other to go out and shoot them up is harmful and silly. 20% of 1000 birds is much different than 20% of 100 birds in how many new birds each 20% can produce. Go out and have fun was wonderful in 2005, not so much since 2007.

I understand that my words are meaningless, and I am at peace with that. I'm no right fighter, I just want more good habitat and better hunting for all of our kids in the future..

The real question is,when you got on the phone with the biologists that you are paying for, that I posted phone numbers for, what did they say?

Just curious?

And Chet, my only statement about tax dollars was that YOU are paying for these biologists with your farm bill dollars the same as the rest of us.

It is silly not to employ them and ask questions, instead of guess. Nowhere did, nor would, I imply that we should all go out and shoot with reckless abandon and be irresponsible.

Now, instead of insulting me, why don't you use your fingers to dial a biologist and educate yourself? That's what WE are paying for.

Punkin I am friends with some of the noted biologist in texas and oklahoma and all of them have advised to cut off quail hunting in January and February when the quail population is below average and one of the best advised to hunt with a camera and not a shotgun and all of these fine folks are paid with our tax dollars.

No one is insulting you, and I've listened to the only man in Texas that I need to out at the research ranch, he's pretty sure that in the current situation a camera or blank pistol is a better than a shotgun.

"Enjoy the season, and understand, you're not harming their opportunity to regenerate"

If their numbers are low and you shoot them how does that not harm their regeneration? You can go on like you have some info we all haven't had for 40 years but facts are we have very few seed birds in a large part of the rolling plains. And I don't need some biologist to tell me that isn't good. And I sure don't need one to tell me to go ahead shoot a bunch of those remaining birds. If we have a good hatch this year I'll be right back trying to break young dogs and enjoying the out of doors as much as I have for 50 years, but until then I won't be out looking to shoot a limit.


PS you telling me to make a call and educate my self is indeed insulting. I've worked dogs and bird hunted for over 50 years and think I have a handle on it. I've seen it when you didn't need a dog and I've seen it when a dog was no help. The 80% die each year has been around for ever. Maybe you should consider that your not the only knowledgeable and engaged person on the board.

When you picked up the phone and called them, what did they say? Did they offer to come on the forum and provide an opinion? Because my money says they would.

We are in constant contact with our Colorado biologists, and while my opinion means nothing, I think THFrs would all benefit from the facts from biologists, rather than the theories from Grandpappy's rocking chair.

I'm done. I provided email addresses and phone numbers. You guys can manage the way you want, and hunt the way you want.

I have no other goal in my human life but to provide better management, habitat, and hunting for future generations. Bigger rack, easier hunting..bleh. I want my kids and everyone elses' to have chance to hunt. And, that means hunting when the misguided say not too.

God bless, have your views, and call your biologist(s) I can't provide any further info.

http://www.quailresearch.org/

Your never ending search for information would be greatly aided by a trip to the above link. And by the way we hunt quail here in Texas not Colorado, and the situation here is very different. Hope offering more info and a differing view of our situation here in Texas isn't insulting to you.

The two biologists I offered up are Texas biologists. I hope those of you in quest of knowledge and better management can get some use out of them. Anyone who wants to continue their "management" plan based on the way it used to be is welcome to continue. Our collective good would be better if you did not.

That's all I've got guys. Nobody has taken me up by calling, or even offering to call YOUR biologists. I guess ya'll have it all figured out.

I'll sign out of this one, not with animosity, but with a bit of reservation and sadness, because this is not something I'm trying to argue about, I was trying to share factual information.

If somebody gets bored and wants to call Curtis or Jordan, I bet you'll have a great conversation.

Enjoy, and happy hunting to all.

"I think THFrs would all benefit from the facts from biologists, rather than the theories from Grandpappy's rocking chair."

I see you're still intent on insulting folks, and guess you didn't visit the link I provided.

Punkin do you have a clue what a quail master is? Well I hunt a help manage the hunting on one of the better ranches in the rolling plans. We have been managing that property with the help of the most respected and best quail researcher in Texas. I suggest you visit the people who are on the cutting edge of quail research.

I'd simply rather point that bird again on my next hunt, than to shoot it on this hunt.

Mr. Oxner is sooooooooooooooooo right.

I think it might have to do with age.

We don't run dogs. But, we often point a finger at them as they run away. The older I get, the better the dogs are looking.

On a good note nice rains through out all of west texas and getting reports of 1/2 grown birds in the kent county area.

Punkin- It appears that you are the one that is misinformed. There are three organizations that do all the real quail research. And NONE of them are run by state or federal biologists. State biologists are often over worked and under funded, and not focused on birds. Of the three main quail research groups two of them are based in Texas, one is the Rolling Plains Quail Research Ranch in Roby, headed by Dale Rollins, the other is Quail Tech run by Brad Dabbert at Texas Tech. BOTH of these groups have advised hunters for the past two season to NOT SHOOT ANY BIRDS. As Chet said above it is one thing when you have a 1000 birds on a property, it is another thing when you have not had a successful hatch in the last 2 years. When you have not had a successful hatch that 20% survival number you are hung up on, becomes the whole and then if only 20% of the 20% survive until the next year then you only have 4%. This is the situation for Quail in most areas of the Rolling Plains today.
Anyone who is advising the shooting of quail under those situations is ignorant of the situation. I think you are trying to justify to yourself why you should continue to shoot birds, and trying to convince the rest of us to do the same.
I have now given you names to call, I hope you do. Let me know how it goes convincing them that you should kill 80% of the birds because they will die anyway.

We have a really healthy population of quail this year. They were running from the truck in the ruts in the road last time we were down.

We don't hunt them, but I would say shoot while the shooting is good. In good years we have a bunch in dry times it don't matter most of them die anyhow.

I do believe we're in the same County...same here, quail are thick this year. Lots of young birds too & also had them running in front of the truck last weekend. I hope they stick around, it won't take very many skillet shots to get a limit this year.

What a crock!!

Bill what do you expect from deer hunters that set at feeders.

Texas Game Biologists Can anyone on this post give us the duties of a State game Biologists?

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/land/technical_guidance/biologists/

This web site will give the biologist by county. You can call and find out. With a little more research you might find their job description.

I hunted with one last season. I posted some of the details on this forum.

Here you go. It's at the bottom of this thread;

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...tem#Post2131207

Bottom line- coast in tx has had birds last few years when the rest of the state has had Nada. Hunted shamrock tx last year that was outstanding the previous 2. Saw 1 tiny covey in 2 days.

Problem is the biologists HAVE NO CLUE what is causing the demise of quail populations. Is it drought, ants, hogs, bacteria in corn, eye disease-maybe all of the above?!?

Shoot dove and ducks- plenty of them to go around. Adopt as a wing hunter.

This thread is a waste of time. 10-12 years ago we were kicking up 12-15 coveys a day. West tx has been a dust bowl for 100 years, yet remains pretty unchanged.

No one has a clue what the problem is. All these gimmicks, quail breeding devices are a waste of money and time. I have a buddy outside of Olney that has spent MILLIONS. On his ranch on quail restoration. Even planting 1000's of birds throughout the season- only to see them as easy pray to all the predators.

If nature and the good Lord decide its time for a population increase, it will happen. Shooting birds doesn't make a damn difference in population. This has been proven over and over for every game bird in North America and beyond.

I do agree w top post. There are more birds this year than we have seen in a while. See if they are here after the summer. Maybe it's the summer rains that are key

Uh, what happened to the carrier pigeon?

you mean passenger pigeons?

disease killed them

I stand corrected on the species name.

And yes, they were wiped out by that disease that very nearly wiped out in the american bison, us.

Lots of quail in Mitchell county

Please supply your reference for the statement that disease killed the passenger pigeons. I would like to have it for future reference, that is, if it is true.

From what I've read. It wasn't disease or shooting that wiped them out but from selling the squab on the markets. Disease and shooting contributed. Google up Passenger pigeon and read about it.
It maybe that the Eurasian Dove is going to replace them. There is more and more of them every year. There is boo-coos of them in my yard every day.
It is hard to imagine the number of PP they tell about in the article.

I've heard quail calling all summer in Collingsworth county. Seen pairs but no young birds until this week. Flushed a hen with about a dozen half grown birds. Going back on Monday. I hope to see more. We've had enough rain that dry land cotton looks pretty good. But it's still dry in our shinnery pasture. Rains have been spotty. Temps have moderated this week. Still hopeful for an improved season.