help shooting ducks

So i need help shooting ducks. I can drop dove no problem but have a harder time with ducks. i have a Rem. 870 with a modified choke. Any tips or maybe new choke or ideas? I don't shoot at anything over 40 yards but seem to miss all too often. Any help would be appreciated.

Two pieces of advise, go to the skeet or sporting clays range and practice after you see what kind of pattern the set up with the shells you use throws. What shot size are you using on ducks?

I lightened my choke up from modified to improved and it did wonders. Steel shot shoots a tighter patter, so if you are using a modified with steel shot it's like shooting an improved modified with lead.

Kman2017 is right about using a more open choke. Also, aim for the beak. Ducks are tough birds and their insulating feathers are thick. They can fly off from a solid hit to the chest as if they're wearing flak jackets. Head/neck shots improve your odds of dropping them dead.

Most misses when wing shooting are from shooting behind and not following through. If missing give more lead.

What shells are you using?

Winchester Xperts had me wanting shooting lessons. Two weekends and a row and couldn't hit a dam thing.

Switched to Kent Fast steel #2 1560 FPS 3" and dropped everything I pointed at.

I think shells are more of a mind game. But definitely agree with where you shoot ducks. Was hunting in timber with a buddy in Arkansas two years ago and damn near every duck we picked up we could shake and have pellets fall into the water.

Pattern your gun. Shoot some skeet and follow through. Most guys shot behind ducks because they pull up short.

Speed Kills...

I shoot a Carlson LM in my 870s and they work fine.

I'd go with a nice quality she'll. 3 in # 3 hevi metals will knock em dead. Love those loads. Shop around you can find deals on cases of em w free shipping too.

Just shoot the same shells you are shooting at dove at ducks...

watch the duck, it'll tell you where your missing

Yep!

I would venture to say you're not continuously swinging through the trigger pull. That is a very common reason for missing.

Yep, gotta get that practice time in.

I have a tendency to over lead ducks that are finishing

If you're dropping dove and having troubles with ducks...you're shooting in front of the ducks. You don't have to lead them as much they aren't near as fast as a dove, cut your lead in half for what you think you need would be my guess.

Especially since most dove loads are around 12-1300 FPS and most steel loads nowadays are 1500 FPS

My guess, is, you actually aren't judging 40yds accurately. 40yds is a long way with steel shot. Then take into consideration that steel patterns tighter than lead with a given choke, you miss by feet, not inches.

I would buy a I/C or L/M extended, spring for some "better" shells, those with, better wads, more spherical shot, better powder and less velocity, the faster the rabbit runs, the quicker he tires. I don't like anything over 1450fps or 1475fps, they become more finicky and harder to get uniform patterns from.

^^^^ I'm of a completely different opinion on speed. I'm a firm believer of speed kills when it comes to stupid steel shot. I don't use hypersonics but I'm always over 1500fps. Some of my hand rolled ones are right at 1600fps. I do believe in patterning so you know what shoots better. Example...my LM choke will put more pellets in a 30" circle than my IM will.

Sight picture.

Winner winner with duck for dinner

It's more likely than not that he's missing shots from too little lead than too much.

The shot string from a typical 3" 12 gauge shotgun shell containing #6 steel shot moving 1400fps, is '6 to 8' inches in length as it exits the barrel, growing in length the farther it travels through the air as it moves towards the target, at a velocity averaging 1100fps and 5'-8' feet long in length at 20 yards, slowing to 750fps and 12'-16' in length at 40 yards. Steel shot doesn't deform like lead, resulting in a shot string with a smaller diameter than that of lead shot, A steel shotstring is roughly teardrop in shape, point facing forward, like an inverted cone, with the bulk of the shot at the rear of the shot string. Lead shot is easily deformed and mishapen individual lead pellets are prone to take wildly divergent paths, the reason lead patterns wider than that of steel when shot using a given size of choke. Both the length and width of the shot string significantly increase the chance of hitting a bird. One reason we don't hunt hunt waterfowl with rifles.

When fired, the shot in a shotgun shell is significantlly larger in volume than a bullet, increasing the odds of hitting the bird. The birds path can intersect that long cloud of shot at any point along it's path, the front of the cloud if the shooters lead is short, or the rear of the cloud if the lead is long. bird expands longitudinally and widens as it moves toward the target, in a long, thin, teardrop/cigar shaped pattern, growing wider and longer the farther it travels until gravity and drag take affect.

I've seen high speed video of ballistics tests on various gauge shotshells fired at static gell targets, clays and live, flying birds. The videos were enlightening to put it mildly. It put to rest any doubts I had of the importance of patterning the shotgun, chokes, and shotshells you intend to use in the field to baseline their performance and determine where POA needs to be to acheive a specific, consistent POI.

A specific brand and spec shotshell that performs well with a specific shotgun brand/model/choke , may not shoot worth a damn in a different shotgun. It doesn't take much time and effort to find a combination of shell/choke that works well in your shotgun. When you get it dialed in, hitting what you're shooting at is almost effortless.

Winchester Ballistician E.D. Lowry ("The Effect of a Shotstring," American Rifleman, November 1979)

Gerald Burrard (The Modern Shotgun, Chapters V and VI)

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotgun-shotstring.html

Bob Brister (“Shotgunning, The Art and Science”, 1976)

http://randywakeman.com/lowryshotstring.pdf

aerangis, my friend, welcome back, I hope your over wanting to rip my head off and poo on it

While shot string and patterning of shotguns is a very important step and thing to understand it also can not be forgotten that shotgunning is also a lot about instinct. Normally I would agree with you that there is not enough lead, after all thats pounded into our heads from an early age. The fact that the OP is "dropping dove" with no issue is something that needs to be taken into account in this situation. In shooting dove its displayed that he understands the importance of lead when wing shooting.

Now, as I previously stated I have a had habit of over leading ducks on the first few hunts. It takes a little bit for me to get it into my head that I dont have to lead finishing ducks much at all. Butt, bill, BOOM. Now every single post on this thread is purely speculation, and one would need to shoot with this gentleman to really know where the issue lies. Like I said before, the duck will tell you how your missing, you just have to listen. If you shoot at him and he pulls his neck back and tries to sit up your out in front of him and he is trying to avoid the shot string. If he kicks it into high gear head down your behind him.

I don't miss ducks. Ducks miss me. Even when I'm not hunting them, they miss me.

I don't miss ducks. Ducks miss me. Even when I'm not hunting them, ducks miss me.

Look only at their heads.

One mans trash, another mans treasure

This pic looks old enough that he probably legally shot those dux with lead.

To the OP, what kind of shots are you missing? Hovering over the dekes, on the way out, or ones flying by?

True ....but why do people not follow thru? It's easy to say give it more lead. More than likely you are stopping your follow thru. A lot of people lift their head when they shoot and try to admire the work. When you lift your head , you typically stop you gun. Find a skeet field and shoot station 4 alot. let your trapper stand behind you he or she will be able to tell if you are lifting your head. Practice practice practice & don't worry about what shells or choke the more trigger time the better shot you will become I promise.

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry I have been MIA. Had some health issues and since i'm a teacher and coach it has been non stop since school started. Just from reading your responses I think I have a gameplan. I do need to go pattern my shotgun. I would be interested in trying to go to a improved to see if that makes a difference rather than keeping in my modified. I am shooting 3" #3 black clouds. The most trouble I have is the one's that circle and are on the move flying by when I swing on them. I am not a professional shot, but I think I have a follow through. I haven't even thought about watching their heads and that will be the first thing I do when I miss this year to see if I am leading too much or not enough. I hunt Ray Roberts mostly and I have a variety of cover spots. I have a couple in timber and then I have a couple that are more "open" if you can call it that. Thanks again for all the tips. I will let you know how i start off this year.

just go hunting and keep shootiing....doves are entirely different
to me just like quail shooting is different.....use a good ammo
something NOT steel (if you can afford it)

go to the skeet or sporting clays range and practice practice practice