Gamewardens

Had a run in with the local game warden the other day and was talking to them about some trespassing that happened last year on my place. Long story short they told me if there was a feeder ANYWHERE on the property I could get a ticket for hunting dove over bait. Even if I am a good 600 yards away from the feeder or longer, it would still be considered hunting them over bait. Skipped this mornings hunt worrying about it and now wanting to hunt this evenings hunt but they will likely pull in and check me. They know the feeder is 600+ yards away. I shut the feeder off when she told me that info but there is still a little corn on the ground. Missing opening day when I can walk out the front door of my house to hunt sucks. Have fun and shoot straight guys.

Find a shovel and make it go away

Thought of that and did that. Feeder is turned off. But its about impossible to get every piece of corn up. But the way the GW is, they will go out of their way to find a piece. Never been in trouble with any game wardens but the way this new one is acting and talking, I will have be check many times this winter.

I would assume there are thousands of people hunting dove on their or someone else's deer lease this year. I would get a copy of your land off google maps mark on it where you are hunting and where the feeder is and if they write you up id take it to court and show them everything. 600 yards is almost a mile. What if you hunt a property with no feeders but your adjoining property has a feeder 600 yards away? I don't see what the issue is. Sounds like the GW was in a bad mood or something.

Also id ask to talk to her supervisor.

That's crap! Most people dove hunt at leases where they deer hunt.

I asked about the neighbor's feeder thing. She said a hunter shouldn't know about the feeder on the neighbors property. Biggest problem is she is friends with my anti hunting neighbor.

That seems a bit excessive on her part. I have a tank a out 300 yards from a feeder I was planning to hunt, kinda makes me wonder now.

Seems like a conflict of interest to me.

Neighbor calls GW hey I can't stand my neighbor shooting all those dove any way you could come out and give him a scare? I got 50 bucks and you can't hunt deer on my land.

I asked what would be a good distance from the feeder to be considered safe and not get a ticket. I live on this property and have a huge field in front of the house I use for dove hunting. The woods where I deer hunt are behind the house. Feeder is 600+ yards away. She said technically the dove could be flying to the feeder. Or from the feeder.

Or not. Hopefully one of the wardens on here will chime in on this.

If you have her number I would call her right now be very kind to her and say. I know technically you can write me up for baiting bc I have a feeder on my property over 600 yards from where I bird hunt but if I hunt are you going to write me up? Explain that you don't want to break any rules but that she isn't being rational and you would like to talk to her supervisor and explain everything to him/her. If they can't fix this issue id keep going up the chain till it gets fixed. You should be able to use your own land without being scared of getting in trouble even though you are doing nothing wrong. Now if the feeder was in the middle of an open field that you are dove hunting on then I could see the problem or if you were sitting in baling picking dove off at the feeder. Not all GW's are created equal.

Technically it says ON OR OVER. She needs to get familiar with her laws. You can always clean it up and wait the 10 days and she can say whatever she wants, you are legal!!

I would get in contact with the captain/ chief.

File a complaint and go hunt. If you get a ticket, take it before a judge and fight it. I would anyway.

Crap for sure!

I printed out a satellite view of my land marked where the feeder is and where I will be hunting. Also went drove down and took some pictures showing where the feeder is in a horseshoe of woods which you can see on the map. Therefor it cant be said that I moved the feeder. I'm gonna do an evening hunt and see how it turns out. Thanks for all the advice. Hopefully we can get some birds without being jacked with.

Did the GW seek you out to warn you about this or did you ask about the feeder and baiting and this was the response? My guess is you asked and she told you the "technical" truth about the subject so if another GW gave you a nugget for it you could not say she said it was OK.

I put my deer feeder up 2 weeks ago. I'll be hunting 200 yards from it tomorrow in a different field.

I realized the problem as soon as you said "her"


I've heard the same thing about deer feeders. I think its the classic example of the old saying "a game warden can find any reason to write you a ticket". I think most wardens would use common sense, but I know a few could be jerks about it...... I would just go hunt and not stress about it.

The law is very funky and talks about if birds are going To, On, Over or From feed where hunters are hunting that it would be considered baiting. Some ideas tie your dog on the feeder while you dove hunt; put up a scare crow; put tarps over the corn; don't hunt doves

Never could understand this law. What is baiting? Hunters can shoot dove over a newly harvested corn or milo field or over a sunflower field. No problem. We can hunt deer (which is the most protected species in TX) and shoot them while they are eating but get a ticket for hunting dove to close to a corn feeder. Really! Give me a break. Such a stupid arse law. Think your GW is taking the baiting law to extremes.

I would hunt it without question and take it above her head when she wrote a ticket. If you are really that worried could you not take the feeder down for a few weeks to get your dove fix? If you turned it off, take it down and nobody is the wiser. To hell with people being irrational to people who are trying to hunt the right way.

Hell, I know of a pond with a feeder that attracts ducks. One day someone was hunting it. Warden said it was fine as it wasn't attracting the birds.

What if their feeder is on the fence line?

Still waiting to see if the GW made contact with the OP about the feeder and baiting or if he initiated the question. Still betting on he asked a stupid question and got an intelligent answer.

No an intelligent answer would have been to tell him the law and ask how far his feeder was from his dove hunting spot. Then tell him that he is good to go, not leave a gray area on the matter.

That's what those guys are here for to inform hunters about laws. Usually the DA that doesn't ask ? And does what he thinks or heard is legal will get a ticket.

Baiting, when dealing with distances, IS a gray area. And because of that, the GW was accurate in telling he could get a baiting ticket for hunting "near" his feeder.

If a GW feels the "baited area" is giving the hunter an advantage be it they are hunting directly over/by it or if they are hunting the flight path the birds are taking to get to it then the GW can give the hunter a baiting ticket.

With that said, I don't think there is any advantage gained from being 600 yards from a feeder. I've hunted a lot closer than that to mine before.

They are able to make judgment calls, all that was required was a simple yes or no.
The handful of wardens that I know would tell you the law and let you know if you are in the right or in the wrong.

Where does this flight path thing come into play? No where in there does it say "Flight path to and from bait". If shooting birds that are to and from baited areasa, we would all be in violation with or without knowing it.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/...s/general-rules

If they want to go through that much trouble searching for one piece of corn ill just pay the ticket and keep hunting.... just dumb

Laws now days are written to generate revenue. They have nothing to do with right and wrong. Look at the states fishing laws. You need an attorney to keep up with them and the wardens know it.

^^^^ This.

It's gotten ridiculous, and few of the wardens you meet don't use much discretion, if there's some infraction, you get a ticket.

I asked about this in another thread and the only answer I got was that I was trying to push the rules. I have the opportunity to hunt a 70 acre ranch that has a deer breeding facility next to it and wanted to know if it would be a violation to hunt near that fence line since they are feeding like a buffet on their side of the fence. The other question I had was how would you know if someone was feeding on the other side of a hill or some brush and you had no idea you were hunting 50 yards from a feeder.

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission

Wonder if the HF operation could be considered "normal agriculture practices" since the deer are like livestock

That was one persons suggestion since they have exotics as well. I get the asking for forgiveness thing but honestly, I'd rather not risk it and be in compliance. Not worth it to get ticketed. I am still curious about not knowing what was over the hill/brush though. This seems like it could happen anywhere. I'm on a dove lease in Austin (wasn't there opening day thank god) and apparently some jackwagon baited a tank with like a foot tall mound of bird seed from HEB. 5 wardens hauled basically everyone on the lease in and started writing tickets. People that couldn't even see the tank and were over 300 yards away got ticketed. So glad I wasn't there because I would have come unglued if I was hunting the opposite side of the property and got ticketed for something I had no idea about. Still not sure if I want to even go hunt out there since I only know a few people on the lease and don't want to risk having that happen again.

A citation does not mean you are guilty of a crime. Grow a set, go hunting and if you get written a ticket you did not deserve, then fight it in court. A game warden is just as human as any of us. They have no selective authority to be judge jury and executioner. It is a jury that can decide the fate of a citation, not a warden. If it is a feather legged ticket, then by God stick it right back on the GW in a court. It is your time, your hour, your chance to tell the world about how the possum cop screwed you over.

Pretty much was said tongue in cheek...this is one of the times I do not believe in that saying. Better to have it clarified to avoid the issue. As far as knowing what is on neighboring land, I would say you can't know and shouldn't be expected to know unless the feeder was visible from where you were hunting. Like anything, guess it is up to the GW's interpretation.

If that place was busted opening day, I wouldn't go back. All baited feed is supposed to be gone for 10 days before you can hunt it again. And since they found it the first trip, I would imagine they will be back.

The wardens specifically told my buddy that they needed to wait 10 days before hunting again to let the bait go away. I'm sure they will be back out there this week so I may try to go later in the season, otherwise, I'm only out 300 bucks so not the end of the world.

So you're telling me if my neighbor sets up a feeder on his property that is visible I can't hunt on MY land?!?! So I go out and spend a huge amount of money to buy some land and I can't hunt it because my neighbor has a feeder set up? No way! Not saying you were implying that is the rule but there is no way that would hold up.

I absolutely agree with you but as a practicing attorney once told me...How much do you want to spend to prove that you were right? You might win your day in court but attorney fees add up and the state is not going to reimburse you when/if they are proven to be incorrect.

If you set up across a fence from a feeder on someone elses land, I would venture a guess that you could get a ticket and it might would hold up. I am not a GW and not a jury, so can't so for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Most GW's aren't that bad. We hunt a pond that has a feeder on the other side of the dam. GW checked us and didn't say a word about it. The dove were coming to the water, or so we assume. As far as courts and juries...I just assume not get that far. Plenty of places to hunt without pushing the limit.

They all are different that's for sure... best anyone can do is be respectful.

WTH?

?

X2 Nav

Probably talking about the contradiction in my post

I say plenty of places to hunt and not push it that far...then say I hunt a pond that has a feeder close by

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! Yes, you can challenge the citation but get your wallet out. When it comes to interpretation of the laws it is really simple to call up your very own gamewarden and hear it from their lips. That is a heck of a lot cheaper than going to court.

I've been hunting a long, long, long time. Been my experience if you treat the GW with respect you will be respected in return. And, don't wait until opening day to give them a call. They're a little busy dealing with the folks that solicited bogus advice on internet forums.

So the order here seems we are to ask the game warden to grant permission to hunt our own property? 600 yards from a feeder and the general answer is to ask the game warden's permision for fear of a citation?

If it involves "Baiting"...you're dang skippy.

NP if I ever seen an NP

Unfortunately yes I believe. It is possible (not right but what are you going to do) to hunt in another part of the property if there is a feeder within sight. Like I said, I'm more worried about a feeder you can't see and have no way of avoiding.

"A hunter may not
hunt migratory birds with the aid of bait, or on or over any baited area"

Its pretty easy to see if your hunting a flight path to or from a baited area than the baited area is aiding you in killing those birds.

For the record I would hunt if I was the OP. A GW would really have to be an a-hole to give you a ticket for hunting 600 yards from feeder. I have hunted within 80 yards of mine before because they were hitting the goat weed that was near it.

But, what she told him, as far as being able to get a ticket for it, is accurate. Will he? Very doubtful. Very very doubtful.

I got checked in Wise county yesterday. Had my ten year old with me. She was very nice and respectful to both of us. She checked both of our licenses. I offered to let her check our guns for plugging and she politely declined. They are human so you're going to get the good side and the bad side depending upon the luck of the draw. Many years ago a friend and I were plinking with 22's when there was no open season. I had a license but my friend did not. He gave him a ticket for hunting without a license. Said rabbits (no closed season) were known to be in the area so we were technically hunting. We were shooting cans and it was very obvious. He just wanted to be a jerk. Took it to the Johnson cty Justice of the peace and he laughed. Said he couldn't believe what a waste of taxpayer's money it was and immediately dismissed it. still a pain in the arse.

It sounds like you should be careful. She is probably trying to fast track herself up the ladder from Crappie Cop all the way to Dove Detective.

That is stupid was her name Fife

If you have to ask the government permission, you're not free.

That isnt even logical. With that thought process, every bird we shoot would be illegal. They are all flying to bait at one time or the other.

The point of all this is to say, it is.nkt.uo to a game warden to make law. Their interpretation sucks but thank God and a lot of dead soldiers that they are noy the decision makers. LAW IS NOT THEIR BUSINESS, INTERPRETATION IS NOT THEIR BUSINESS, ENFORCEMENT IS THEIR BUSINESS. Bringing violators to justice is all they are hired to do.

You do as you please. I am going hunting. I am going to follow law. If i get a ticket and the GW is wrong, no problem. I will be polite and kindly let a jury hand him his arse, politely of course😁

I am sure the dove is flying to food somewhere. I think the dove like to fly to Oklahoma and I know someone there has a feeder so I guess we are all in trouble.

Thank you for getting my point. This outlaw bit has done got out of hand.

Okay sorry long day under the helmet laying money, beads. I did ask the question for a couple reasons. I knew she knew the feeder was down there. Two, I knew she would be back to check me if I was hunting. I asked the exact question of, "How far away from a feeder do you have to be for it to not be considered baiting?" Her response, "Theres really no judgeable distance cause it could be said that the dove your shooting is flying to the feeder, therefor that is baiting." She followed that up with, "After having a positive run in with someone, Id hate to give that someone a ticket the next time I see them." So I told her id shut the feeder off. She also asked what I was feeding. I said corn. She scolded me for feeding corn when its 90 degree days cause it makes the deer sick. First time I had heard that. But I, like most of yall, love hunting. Each time I am in the woods is like a vacation. Reason I asked is cause I would hate to have my first ticket from a GW because of something that is avoidable.

Your right Wal. You can't get ticketed for hunting on a flight path close to a baited area. I tell you what... Go ahead a dump 1000 lbs of corn in a pile in the middle of a 50 acre field better yet make it 100 acres... hunt the edges and shoot birds as they come in. By YOUR INTERPRITATION that would be completely legal as you wouldn't be directly over the bait. But, I guarantee you your arse would be fined so hard your head would pop off.

Hey udamdan, you can't eat popcorn...That would be considered baiting. Sorry, I couldn't help myself...LOL

He is baiting for trolls totally legal LOL.

Corn makes deer sick? I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

Yup,
If I understand her correctly: my anti-hunting neighbor could put up feeders on their property (where it is illegal for me to trespass and investigate,) to intentionally stop me from hunting dove. But then wouldn't the "hunter harassment law" come into play there. Then my anti-hunter neighbor would get the ticket!

TPWD regs have a ton gray areas. We jokingly make fun of the different weak description of laws it has, they need to brush up and define things better. We just do our best to do what is right.

welcome

And then some wonder why GWs have a hard time only "enforcing" the laws instead of interpreting them. IMO, it is up to the GW to interpret the gray areas and base the enforcement on that. Then the courts can sort the rest out. In many cases, LEOs do the exact same thing. It requires a certain amount of common sense approach, but also gives them the chance to stick it to an arse that doesn't like the law in the first place and decides to blame them .

I would venture a guess that a select few on this thread in particular don't get along very well with GWs....

As far as the OP goes, I would still hunt and deal with it if I received a ticket. My

Ive been checked by 3 different GW on Fort Hood all were very nice checked me to make sure I was up to date on license and area access pass and let me go on my merry way. I think if they get a bad vibe off of you then you got a good chance of quickly getting on their radar and bad side.

Yup,
Nothing wrong with studying the rules, and questioning different scenarios, it is a great way to get educated on hunting laws. Something too many make too little or no effort doing.
If in doubt, we just don't do it, whether we agree with them or not. If their is a gray area, we simply won't stretch the rule to fit our situation. That is asking for trouble.

I spoke with a GW last year about shooting dove in a 60 acre field where we have a feeder for pig hunting. GW told me to do the following 10 days prior to dove hunting

remove battery
put a bag over the feeder motor to prevent corn from falling out
don't hunt directly near the feeder
He did emphasize he did not want to see any corn on the ground

The GW never checked me, so I can't say for certain if he would, or would not have ticketed me.

She was may have been possibly referring to a higher possibility of aflatoxins in corn during hot dry, humid conditions, that has been know for a awhile as a "possibility"

I've never had any bad dealings with any GWs. Never had any tickets. Have been checked in different counties before and they have all been pretty good meetings. Made friends with a few. I believe GWS do a good job for the most part. But I also believe there is "better busts" to be made then me hunting 600 yards from my deer feeder IMO. Least I have a plugged gun and a hunting licence with the migratory bird stamp and I'm not sitting in a field blasting dove landing at the feeder.

GW are cool

If u have an issue, call them 1 month before the season

Thats all

Find out where you local District TP&W law enforcement office is. I am guessing but I believe it will be the Ft Worth office. Fort Worth Area — 5400 Airport Freeway, Suite E, Haltom City, TX 76117; (817) 831-3128

Go and talk to them, there should be a supervisor there that should be able to clarify this issue.

Lets see, 1000 lbs pile of of corn in the middle of 50 acres vs. A deer feeder on 600 acres. Are we changing the scenario to fit your side of the discussion? My point is not hard to uunderstand. It is not a right or wromg view here. It is to dispell the myths sbout game wwardens. If i owned 600 acres and s GW cited me as in that scenario, then we are going to get it on. I would be very polite to her. I would even thsnk her for doing s tough job. I court i would make her look like the briar eating jackass. I would make a case that no jury would allow the state to continue prosecution. That os a right granted to you by a lot of dead men. The police represent law, it is not the other way around.

No, you said nowhere does it say explicitly in the regs that you could be cited for hunting birds flying to or from a baited area and that's the reason for what I posted. By your interpretation of the law you would be fine....

Of course in each scenario common sense has to come into play on if the person would actually get a ticket or not and I do believe that has been covered in this thread.

Sorry you can't grasp that concept. It must be tough for you.

See ya on the other side.

I understood your concept about 2 pages ago. The conversation took a turn and a new concept was developing. With all due respect, when you're ready to keep up with the conversation let us know

I really don't think you did...later hand

Definition of "baited area" Any area on which bait has been placed, deposited, exposed, distributed, or scattered so as to serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them. Any such area will remain baited area for ten days following the complete removal of all bait.

Remember when looking at our outdoor annual you are only reading a combined summary of applicable state code, state regulations, state laws, federal laws and, and various area specific rules. And probably case law as well. It is only the crib sheet with a bunch of advertisments.

They "technically" could use the same argument about pond popping ducks. I have hunted deer, ducks, dove and turkey on the same piece of property for 40+ yrs, dad, uncles, cousins and granddad going back to over 100+yrs and we have had many a visit from the warden in that time and not once has this technicality came up, and the place is only 56 acres.

I think she needs a refresher course in interpretation.

Heck, every bird that flies is going to or coming back from feeding, so I guess none are legal to shoot...

If hunting over a baited area bingo on migratory birds. I had a game warder in kent county issue a ticket for the above. Hunting a pond and deer feeder 150 yards throwing corn. Just $750 per person hunting the tank.