Joggers on WMAs?

Sitting here this morning on public land and I've counted 6 different people jogging through the place with dove hunters on either side of them. No way they had a permit or registered. The 3 I saw coming in weren't wearing enough clothes to carry anything with them. Bunch of college girls. Is that not a safety concern?

There are likely more joggers than hunters that vote. Hopefully we can all coexist and tolerate one another. No real safety concern, if I can avoid shooting various bird species than I can likely avoid joggers.

Probably PETA chics hoping to get peppered so they get on the news and talk about how dangerous we hunters are

In Oklahoma no non hunting activities are allowed during hunting season on WMA's.

Ive caught joggers on private land, told them we were hunting and BTW this land is PRIVATE!! They just said I know and kept on jogging through!! I was like WTF!! Town people pretty much suck IMPO

There are no joggers in Oklahoma, you seen those women up there??

They don't jogg, they ride their war ponies

We're they good lookin?? Lol I wouldn't mind seeing some hot college chick jogging by while I was hunting... We hunted a field in rockwall last year had girls come by frequently they would always smile and wave.... The time my wife came with us, she was not happy that these girls made our field their daily resting stop ha ha. The joggers you saw probably have a limited use permit which allows people access for hiking, photography, jogging, bike riding ect.

Nacogdoches...college chicks...STOP hunting Pecan Park! Its not a WMA! Lol

Joggers and bicycle riders are the worst

Disc golf= free skeet

Those hippies would beat you to death with their bongs if you shot their Frisbee

Yeah they would

Worse than anything here is 5 horseback riders coming down the trail for a afternoon stroll on opening day of deer season gotta love public hunting land

Non- hunting parties dont need a permit to be on certain (if any?) WMA's if you read the public hunting booklet. But, they are supposed to wear orange and urged not to use the WMA's during hunting season, but nothing saying they CAN'T, as far as I am aware. I've had the same problem with geocachers on other WMA's.

Safety concern? Probably, but I guess we all need to check our shooting lanes prior to each shot.

Imagine what its like to be riding your horse or jogging and see some Bubba hiding on the fence line with a gun. Gotta be a little disturbing.

I've had WAY MORE hunts screwed up by idiot hunters rather than idiot non-hunters.

Not even close.

Oh no I was in the middle of the property they were on the grasslands riding their horse which is allowed just figured they wouldn't come on opening weekend they said they ride every Saturday

I thought you had to ha a LPU permit even if you weren't hunting?

I'll disagree with that statement. To help with revenue, TPWD had to enact a LPH permit. Its for limited use, such as jogging.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/public/annual_public_hunting/

This is 100% correct.

If they are selling the permits, there isn't much one can do except put up with them.

I got a ticket once for being on a WMA without a permit. It had been dry and I drove in to look if there was any water before I bought my permit. I had no gun or camo one me.

I stand corrected.

I'm not taking sides either way on this one. But personally, I don't think it is too big of a deal. I had rather see people out in the outdoors doing something rather than inside just watching tv or playing video games.

First and foremost I am a hunter/outdoorsman. But second, I am a runner. I've enjoyed hunting and running all over the country. Those are my two passions in life.

Due to the fact that I work in the running industry I can promise you that the majority of the runners out there don't have a clue about hunting, much less give a crap about keeping up with the hunting seasons. Most don't realize that there are hunting seasons. They use the land 12 months out of the year. Some use it weekly. I think it would be a pretty safe bet that the majority of us hunters might use the WMAs 3-5 months out of the year at most.

Do I think they are idiots for running around out there during season? Yup, I don't want them screwing up my hunt. But for the majority of the runners I know, the last worry they have when they go out for a run is a hunter out in the woods. Most are worried about coyotes, stray dogs, etc.

Don't mean to ruffle any feathers. Just a different point of view. Send all the hot college girls to my property to run. I enjoy the scenery of all God's creatures.

I'm gonna take my bike on a WMA this weekend, just for all the Fudds in this thread.

Or you could be inside watching the cowboys loose their game into the last minute, thats even worse

They won by the way. Only took 6 turnovers.

I look at it this way. I am never going to be able to go to a land manager or a group of local citizens and demand that I have exclusive right over the land so I can go hunting safely and undisturbed. But if a group of joggers, a horse club, bird watchers, etc. do the same thing, unlike us, they can and have been able to sway land managers and citizen groups to cut us hunters out of the loop. Many of those groups are very well organised. The corps public hunting area maps have the public hunting areas on them whittled down every season. The borders are always growing houses. I often hunt near park areas that have trails and I even hunt in some State Parks outside Texas where I use equestrian trails for access. I always yield to joggers, mountain biders, and horse people. I make a point to let them see me picking up other's trash. I make a point to be polite. Politically they can be your best advocate or your worst enemy.

X2

cant believe that anyone would complain about half dressed college chicks jogging by no matter where it was

Incisive and absolutely correct.

I went for a run opening weekend. I guess they don't get many joggers in those small towns up in the Panhandle, because I sure got some funny looks from the locals.

The last thing on my mind would be for there safety or if they had a permit to be there.

I have a couple issues that I think you are neglecting to consider.

1.) In Texas WMA's require either APH or LPU for adults to use the properties, so as you alluded to early in the joggers lack of concern for hunting seasons, they are likely to be ignorant of the requred LPU to use them for there activities.

2.) I am sure the jogger is ignorant of is that they could under certain circumstances could be charged with harassment of a hunter, which is a law that protects the right of the minority hunters from harassment from Joe Public or jogger. The lack of knowing the law is not an excuse. This is highly unlikely unless they continually and dilebrately run near a person that is hunt an area. I have witnessed game wardens use this on neighboring ranches when they continue to run atv's against the fence.

3.) I am sure they also do not realize that most the money for WMA's came from outdoorsmen to be more specific hunters, fishers and trappers, through robertson-pittman act, so they should be thanking the hunters and avoid running in these areas during the hunting season. They can running in the city limits where we are not allowed to hunt. The have the other 7-9 months to enjoy WMA's if they have LPU....

And the worst thing I think you said was how wrapped up in themselves they are.. I am no runner but I know to let runners by when I am walking, I know to keep my dog on leash and under control, I do not assume that the park is just mine, and I take measures to insure I do not interfer with their activity. For example if you speed and get caught you do not get to plead ignorance of the law. They should not be able to just assume its their personal play grown and should understand all the uses of the properties before using them.

We have similar issues on COE properties, but I have witnessed COE staff explain to Joe Public, joggers and fisherman even that durning the hunting season they are under the same regulations the hunters are. Walk your dog in a park, jog in a park with in city limits and be cognizant of the fellow human being that is out there trying to enjoy there outdoor experience. I do not try to keep them out of the WMA's or COE sites in not hunting season...

I guess what I am saying is they need to be aware of the hunting season and the potential danger and the need to respect the hunters in the field... Not sure why that is so difficult.

Dadof5girls, first, holy crap, 5 girls? If you could write a book and send it my way as a reference point that would be great. I have 2 girls and I am sure I could learn a thing or two.

I can respect your opinion but I still don't think you understood the point I was trying to make.

1) It isn't a lack of concern for hunting seasons that runners have. That isn't the issue. It is their lack of knowledge that hunting even occurs or in some cases exists. I've had to explain to people what hunting is, and that there are only certain times of the year and certain places that you can even do it. Just like you have a lack of knowledge of the running culture, they have a lack of knowledge of the hunting culture. All the trail runners I run with have all appropriate permits. I'm sure there are runners out there that don't have the appropriate permits but I believe I just read a thread stating a game warden had to give a ticket to a hunter without license and hunters safety ed cert, wtf? There are a lot of people that drive without a DL. They are all wrong and should be subject to law. The ones that have been around for a while are directly responsible for aiding in maintaining the trail systems year around so that they don't become over grown.

2) I doubt very seriously that they are trying to intentionally harass hunters. My point was that if they run that area every week of the year and know very little about hunting then there is no reason for us as hunters to get our feathers ruffled when they go out and run the same area they always run. They habitually have become accustom to running that area. I'm sure if you took the time to educate them in a nice constructive way it would no longer become an issue. But how many hunters have done that? PS: That same harassment of a hunter law could more frequently be used against hunters themselves. Weekly during the season I could technically see that law being enforced by the game warden, primarily against other hunters and rarely against any other WMA patron.

3) You are absolutely correct. Like you said, you aren't a runner so I don't expect you to understand this. I am a trail runner. There aren't trails in the city limits. So where do I go? There are unfortunately very few trails out there, especially Texas. Not exactly a plethora of options. I'd rather run out in nature in God's country versus a concrete jungle. It's easier on my knees and allows me to do what I love, in addition to hunting. I'm not saying they should run in WMAs during hunting season. Just trying to shed light on the running world so we as hunters don't go out and start a screaming match with someone, whether it be a runner, hiker, whatever, just because we hunters feel some sort of entitlement. I'll study it myself but has anyone seen anything that WMAs are completely off limits during hunting season to anyone but hunters? What I have studied in the past doesn't indicate such.

I didn't say anything about runners being in to themselves. Not quite sure where you got that. I don't know any runners that think, "assume its [i]their personal play grown and should understand all the uses of the properties before using them[/i]" I have run trail races and been on training runs and done exactly as you have. I have been hiking with my kids and witnessed runners, horseback riders, cyclists, all of the above yield to me and others. And I have yielded to them. I'm sure that hunters are perceived to be the same way. "There go those hunters again, they think they own the whole property". I get pissed when I hear that and rest assured I address when and where appropriate so that hunting doesn't take anymore of a bad wrap. If we aren't introducing others to the world of hunting then we are missing out on more of what this sport has to offer. I have introduced several running and cycling friends to hunting and help them grow their own appreciation for what we do as hunters.

"WMAs were established as sites to perform research on wildlife populations and habitat, conduct education on sound resource management, and to provide public hunting, hiking, camping, bird watching and a host of other outdoor recreational opportunities - all of which are compatible with the conservation of this valuable resource."

The above is applicable to every WMA year around with the exception of a few WMAs. Trail running is becoming more popular but there might be less than 3% of runners that actually run out there.

Mainly I'm trying to play devil's advocate here so us hunters don't come across like self absorbed red neck a-holes. We need to be perceived in a positive light. Once again, I agree with you on most of the points you made. I hunt 4-5 days a week every week of the season Sept-Feb. And I usually take my running gear with me and enjoy a run while I am out there. It's my favorite way to scout certain areas that I hunt.

Your last point, that they need to be more aware of hunting season. I agree. So what are we going to do about it? Whose responsibility is it to help them understand how important the WMAs are to hunters?

Once again, just playing devil's advocate here. I guess my efforts in this is mainly in hopes that we think twice before we do or say something to non-hunters out in the field. I think we all need and want them to respect and support hunting whether or not they choose to do it or not. But we can't come across like some elitest group if we are going to accomplish that. For me it is easier to remain cool calm and collected if I understand their point of view before I do something stupid and make a hunting enemy for life. Guilty as charged. I hope to never do it again.

The thing that gets me is there is the SFA experimental forest is RIGHT next door that is off limits to hunting and has running trails all through it. It also does not require a permit. Now, if they had permits, then more power to them, but I know if my wife (who is an avid runner) knew she was going to be surrounded by hunters while she was running, she would not go there. I can guarantee you if the birds had been flying, and I had been shooting while they were in there, they would have FREAKED!

Now under that circumstance than obviously that makes sense. But that might not be the case at every WMA. In my experience I'm not going to give college girls too much credit about knowing the ends and outs of hunting. I would have kindly let them know hunting season has started and recommended for their safety they run in the SFA experimental forest.

College gals you say? Without pics to verify this claim, we cannot accept your word as 'evidence' into this matter.

When did people start running at Alazan?

I hunted it from '06-'10 while at SFA and the only non-hunters I ever saw were bird watchers.

Fishpig30

Yep 5 girls, range from junior in college to Kindergarten.... They all where city kids but taught to hike, camp, shoot, hunt, fish and trap with me. They may not still do all those with me but they at least got introduced to the outdoors and educated in those skills, and several of them still hunt, fish, camp and hike with me regularly. Only advice I can give is to love'em until it hurts and be patient when they are teens... You will need a lot of stress relief.

I think for most point we are in agreement. My thoughts were more towards the lack of knowledge and who's responsible for that education, and I believe that most of the mainstream joe public lack of understanding and appreciation of the outdoor culture and buy in to the pop culture description of hunting. But I think that the point you made of trying to let everyone understand the runners culture is good but would suggest that it is something lacking in the running culture is education on their impacts to the land and others who are sharing the resource. I not sure but running magazine have never brought the subjects up to educate their readers on leave no trace, the need to wear blaze orange during hunting season, self-limiting where they run to respect hunters in the field.

A second point is it is the jogging community responsibility for their own recreational legacy, they should petition the managers of our state resources, city parks management and their legislators to gain a voice, also should self tax themselves as outdoorsman have for generations to pay for those resources and improvements. I am sure most joggers (trail runners) enjoy the outdoors and probably care to maintain the resources and would probably take suggestion if delivered in a mutually respectful manner. How often due running clubs go do clean up in these parks and outdoor resources, I am involved in several organizations that due these regularly. Plus additional taxes would help to increase the number of lands we have to access. You made the comment that there are limited public resources in Texas and yes you are right Texas is over 90% private, their for we all need to help pay to play.. If I am wrong and the sales of running shoes is taxed the same as shotgun shells, I will get off my high horse, but I just bought both in the last few weeks and I am certain the shoes did not get taxed at the same rate.

We all know their are bad apples and they are going to disregard any help or advice in all communities. But to your statement of trying to not to come off as redneck a-holes, it is the exact reason I made the vastly broad statement of joggers being selfish or in to themselfves, it is a perception due to the lack of knowledge. Hunters may see them as city slickers or PETA voulunteers. Both perspectives are idiotic and indicative of where we have fallen as a society.

I understand the need for running trails and excersise (I could use a little more myself), I just think taking a proper trail and not busting a new trail is advisable. I think wearing a blaze orange shirt should be manditory, accidents happen and I would hate to read in the paper or see in the news someone being injured due to lack of knowledge. I think that is where the running media and the state should be working together to accommodate the multi-use but educate them on the risks and need for permits and other requirements. I also think that the public as a whole should understand where the funding comes from, generations of outdoorsman have self taxed themselves so that these lands remain opened to the public for various uses. I do believe that most of the public if educated would buy the LPU or other permit and would comply with standard recommendations.

Now, I may not read runner magazine, but in my youth I ran cross country and understand the appeal of trail running, but I even as a teenager was aware of where I should not run in the fall and winter months, that is probably because I lived in a rural area, heck we even brought our guns to school so we could hunt before or after school. But that is for a different time and conversation.

Also I know state parks are closed to other uses during public hunts, WMA's have varied rules depending on what is allowed, but from sept-feb joggers should at least have the necessary resources (LPU) and blaze orange on. IMNSHO!

I know that mountain bike associations are starting to pop up and get cities and states to provide them trails. Lots of state parks have some level of trails.

Ok, but you asked for it . . . :




that would keep them out of there; course, they might shoot back . . . .

Did you see any joggers???