Going for Stand-By

Anybody not get drawn planning on going as a stand-by??
I know of one hunt that has 15 spots open right now.
I got drawn for Archery Exotic at Devils River and I called the place yesterday to ask a couple of questions. The guy running the place told me only 5 people sent in the money for the permit. This hunt had 20 permits available for this years draw.
Hard to believe that a lot of people put in for hunts that never intended to go anyway!!!
Anyway, this hunt is this coming Friday thru Monday, Oct 11-14, in case somebody might be off and could make it.

Man you really got me thinking about this. Was gonna take a 4 day weekend and head to the lease. Devils River sounds like a better time to me. My buddy did the rifle hunt last year and shot a few aoudad.

If you come on out, holler at me. I'll be in a dark blue Dodge one ton welding rig.

We see this quite often on the draw hunts each year.

I got made at the world one time and decided I would go stand by on the state hunts.I ended up at a black powder hunt on the Devils sink hole in Rockd Springs. I goofed and went early camped out side the locked gate only talked to people going in.Let them know I was going to wait for a stand by hunt. A young man came out on foot and told me they are booked up and can't allow anymore hunters.One day later when they called everybody in I went on in with them The officer identified all the hunter with there papers and then turned to me and said did you come from Denison on stand by,I am going to see that you hunt. Nicest group of strangers I ever hunted with killed a spike buck,everybody needs to go see the 5 million bats come out of that hole, Chuck

By the way I saw quite a few white tail deer.

The AEX hunt at Devil's River will not have standby positions available per the Special Restrictions for the Area within the Drawing hunt booklet and website.

From conversations I have had with hunters on a couple hunts, I am confident part of the reason there are no shows on some of the hard to draw hunts because there are people putting in for those particular hunts not because they want to go on them that year, but because they know they are not likely to draw them. Because TPWD does not provide a preference point only option like a lot of other states do, people are doing that as a way to build preference points in years that for whatever reason they know they can not go hunting.

Each state has their own draw system including preference points. Not sure what the new system will entail once we go to online submission which is scheduled for testing come February and hopefully, it will be set to go next summer.

I think part of it is keeping your options open. I put in for a dozen public hunts this year and then found a decent lease. Fortunately we only got drawn for a youth hunt which is free. I probably wouldn't have gone if I got drawn. It's just money I need to put into my place now. I'll put in for one or two next year when I don't have to spend so much at my lease.

Yep, that's what I do. I figure, if I get drawn for one of these, I will make the time if I can. I don't count on getting drawn though. I even put in for crossbow, and I don't own a crossbow. It kinda stinks that folks like me are making it harder for everyone to get drawn for the long odds hunts, but there isn't a better option to build up points.

I am sure people only wanting to build preference points in any particular year have also figured out that in combination with applying for a poor draw odds hunt they can add a family member or friend having zero preference points to their card and cut in half their preference points on the draw and thus cutting their chance of getting drawn by half. So logic has it, if by luck or maybe should say by bad luck because the person is only wanting the preference point that year. The extra party member who likely does not hunt, does not go even if the party leader does. BTW, I learned this stuff sitting across the table from a WMA manager three years ago who was frustrated with the repeat number of no shows on one of his area hunts.

Then there are the non residents who have no license requirement and pay the same small fee as residents to apply They have nothing to lose if they are drawn and don't go. So they apply for several hunts they know they are not likely to make. You know there has to be a high rate of no shows with them.

And there have been national campaigns to screw up state draws by animal rights organisations before. An org like Peta can kill a state hunt when it is only $3 a head for their members anywhere in the country to apply. They see it as for every hunt they draw, the $3 donation saved an animal.

It is a wonder they don't have more no shows than they do.

Not Arkansas. I used to build preference points in Arkansas for a particular deer hunt I wanted to do in the future. Two or three years ago Arkansas completely did away with their preference point system because of people manipulating it. Rather than make some simple changes, they gave you a chance to use the points in the next draw or two, then wiped the slate clean.

Stand by usually has a better chance than the drawing.

That's has been my experience too.

Yep, no stand-bys. Didn't realize it till I got there. The only reason they don't do stand by is the guys at the park have no way to collect the permit fees.
This is 2013. Surely by now, TPWD would have figured out a way to do this. How much money did TPWD lose by not selling the other 15 permits?? A pretty good chump change.
Oh, by the way, I missed a aoudad but shot some kind of sheep. I was really after some axis but never found them. It was a good but HARD hunt. Another guy shot a ram, but shot at a bunch of animals. He had multiple shots every day. I ended up leaving early because of my draw hunt at Fort Boggy starting Monday.

excuse my ignorance, but what are preference points? i would think, logically, that if you apply for a hunt and are selected and don't show it is a bad thing and you shouldn't be allowed to apply again...just thinking logically here.

They get their money either way. What's even worse than that is when there are 10 people chomping at the bit to win a stand by position and only a couple get in. Then the next day one of the selected hunters grabs all his stuff and leaves for good. Sometimes I wondered why those guys don't just stay home and let someone that really wants to be there the whole time and take advantage of the opportunity have it in stand by.

Enter my son for cooper youth hunt didnt get drawn again. How do you find out where to go for stand by?

You go to the WMA office on the south side of the dam. Last year there was a lot more standby hunters than spots to hunt. Some didn't get to hunt. You need to be there by 10 AM. You signup, then after the drawn hunters pick their hunting area they put all the names in a hat and draw. My son got drawn this year. We will be there.
Good Luck.

Thanks man for the info.

Why???
I understand things do happen.
For example, my son drew a youth hunt in South Tex. I sent the letter back saying we would be there. The hunt was still weeks away. Little did I know the football team would still be in the play offs at the time of the hunt. So, Friday night, we were in Lufkin and then to be in around Three Rivers the next morning. Just couldn't make it happen.
Would that be fair that he could never apply again???
Also, preference points are points you get each year you do not draw. Other words, if you have 5 points, your name goes into the drawing 5 times. Once you draw a hunt, you go back to zero, whether you show up or not. If you show up as stand by and get to hunt, it does not change any points you have.

Not quite!!!
Just like this hunt I went on, they had 20 permits at $130 each. Only 5 sent their permit fees in for a total of $650. By the other 15 not sending the permit fee in and not allowing stand-bys, they lost $1950.
That alone might could have paid for some plumbing work badly needed at the site.

I guess you're right. I didn't realize that they wouldn't allow stand by hunters to get in. I figured they only did that on the hunts that a person wouldn't miss (except for unforeseen reasons). Yeah, I agree, that doesn't make any sense to me either.

Just because they take standby doesn't mean they will get all their money. I was just at matador for the archery hunt only 9 of 16 paid and only 1 standby showed up. TPWD needs to do something to stop people from getting picked and then not paying. May be more money up front.

Yeah or maybe a link that shows how many haven't met their deadline to pay. Therefore, will be open for a stand by.

How did yall do??

had good time but hunting was terrible I only saw 3 deer in 5 days weather was real hot could be reason I don't know

Which compartment were you in?

PM left for u

Devil's River SNA does not have a point-of-sales machine to take fees or charges for any events/happenings/hunts.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/state-parks/devils-river

Making a statement as you did without doing a little research only shows you made a judgement without the knowledge of the site itself.

Chris,
Why would a point of sales machine make any difference? I did not use a point of machines to apply originally, I stuck my entry and check in and envelope and mailed it mailed it. When drawn I stick a check for the permit fee in an envelope and mail it. Why could they not collect the hunt permit fee and do the same thing. It is what they did several years ago on all standby hunts before any of them had "machines" or computers.

Only stating what I saw Dude. You wasn't there!!!!!!!
And I understand about the "point of sale"!!!! Kinda hard to collect money when you are a hour and half from nearest town.
But on the other hand, Fort Boggy SP is in the same boat. Can't take stand-bys. But it's only 5 miles from nearest town and at one time, they took stand-bys. I was told TPWD took away his only way to take payments. But yet we keep hearing TPWD is under-funded.
Starting to see why!!!!!!

All that is transacted in Austin at TPWD headquarters, not all field stations. Some have point of sales, some do not.

That was the action coming down from State Parks, not anything to do with Public Hunting.

I guess something changed. People used to be able to pay with a check when drawn standby, but realize I have been going on these hunts for several years and before computers were the norm. Are you saying the only way to pay for the permit fee when drawn standby on a hunt now is with a credit card or debit card directly to austion via the same machine they sell licenses with?

No disrespect to you Chris, but if that is so, then I agree that it's silly for TPWD to throw away $1950 in revenew on that hunt, and tens of thousands of dollars combined lost on other hunts by not allowing or trusting area managers to accept check or cash payments for permits and just drop them in the mail to Austin the next day. Especially when the drawn hunters paid for their permits by snail mail and not electronicly anyway. Not to mention sometimes cutting the number of hunters in over half on hunts like that one, in effect removing half of the manager's wildlife management tool.

A call in public hunt on a national wildlife refuge I have done a few times as late as last year I have paid for my permit at the gate by cash or check to the area manager or biologist at the conclusion of the hunt. From there I suppose the paperwork and funds are either mailed to a main office somewhere or deposited into an account. It is not that difficult.

With area managers more than once telling me about how their budgets are cut, with tpwd all but begging for donations, with texas govt holding Pittman-Robertson funds for budget manipulation, it just makes no sense to not let those managers do old school pen and paper accounting and snail mail deposits.

Things like this IMHO is why the TPWD commission needs a real fishing hunting outdoors person on the commission rather than only appointees of whoever donated the most funds to the Governor's campaign. Sometimes like in the case of this one they can't see the forest for the trees. Guys like me and on this forum are actually in that forest hunting.

well said John

No, many WMA's and State Parks are able to take in checks, money orders or credit cards for the standby hunts as they have in the past; very few are unable to do so.

We may be having a failure to communicate then. Feel free to explain if we are on the wrong track here. That is what dialogs on forums like this are for.

I also don't understand why they cant take a check or money order. The sad part to me is not only is the TPWD losing a lot of money but there are plenty of hunters (over 3,000 applied last year )that would love to hunt this place. Hard to understand why they cant come up with a system to get their money and provide the correct number of hunters.

BTW almost 1,000 hunters picked last year did not pay. TPWD time to change something.

So it sounds like someone at TPWD needs to put their foot up the butt of the managers at Fort Boggy and Devils River. Tell them to start taking checks and cash for stand-by payments. And if they were originally prepared to issue 20 permits but only 5 drawn hunters paid then do 15 stand-by permits. Turning away good money otherwise.

This is what I'm talking about!!!
With today's technology, you would think TPWD would have a way for every hunt.
I mean, they have it today that a person can run a credit card right off their cell phone.
Kinda sad when cash in hand won't even work!!!

It's not the guys running the hunts. It's the "Big Boss" in Austin that has their hands tied.
Those guys running the hunts would love to be able to do stand-bys.

^^^Best reply given to the standby situation

X2
Those managers, biologists, wildlife techs, etc. are having to do more with less these days and all I have ever seen on those hunts is TPWD employees going above and beyond. Hunting is a "biological management tool" for them. Especially important when it involves exotics. I am sure they want to be able to fill those standy spots to meet their management goals.

Part of the problem why the TPWD Commission, who makes the decisions of what, when, where, and how state park hunts are done. Or whoever down the chain that will not allow direct permit payments without a "machine" at some locations. May be because many TPWD decisions are now managed by analytics. Everything must go into a database. You would still think there would be a way to enter your permit purchase into the database sometime after the time of purchase, but then there probably is no employee available to do that unless it is done at the point of purchase. And by the way, if you did not know. If you hunt and fish in Texas, Big Brother is watching you and recording your every move into the database.
http://gcn.com/Articles/2013/08/19/Data-analytics-Texas-Parks-Wildlife.aspx?Page=1

TPWD has been using a point-of-sale system that dumps all the license purchase data into a database for years. Same thing for boat registrations, magazine subscriptions, etc. There's nothing new about this at all. If you give money to any state agency, they have to record it in a database in some way for the accountants and auditors. People want proof from the government on what they take in and how it is spent. "Big Brother" doesn't care about watching you - the public has demanded they do this.

Are not State Park hunts and regular WMA's under the jurisdiction of the same entity...Texas Parks and Wildlife? If so why not run them the same. Sounds like typical bureaucratic BS to me. I'm just a dumb,old redneck who's trying to go to the woods and kill something. All this talk of POS kiosk and swiping credit cards just to get in the woods kinda ruins the experience for me. I suppose I can't stop technology from creeping in to all areas of life but I wish I could.