protein feeder question

my place is not high fenced and it actually hasn't been hunted in a couple years. i have one corn feeder out right now, im planning on putting out one more. i was thinking of putting out a protein feeder, but is it worth the time and effort if this place is not high fenced and managed? will i even see results or will i just pour money into the thing? thanks

Yes it is worth it, it will not only make the deer healthier, but it will draw more deer to your place.

x2 on everything helo said.

One of the best decisions we've made on our place...you won't see the results like some of the high fence ranches but protein is not the only thing working in their favor.

What's your place like? Size, deer density, number and size of neighbors?

about 400 acres, lots of deer. the place is not a play ranch, livestock has been run all my and my dads life there, its a working ranch. it has always been leased to deer hunters just for some extra cash on the side but we stopped leasing it 2 or 3 yrs ago and reduced livestock numbers by about 50% at the same time. this will be the first season its been hunted since. not many neighbors, the few around us have over a section of land so its pretty secluded, i know the neighbors hunt though. i always see deer when i go out there, usually small groups of doe. ive seen lots of rubs and a few big bucks have been taken out there before.

so its worth investing ~$30 in some pvc for a homebrew protein feeder? :-)
what the heck do i put in it? i dont have the first clue as to whats available...

I am doing it on 64 acres and seeing a difference in the amount of deer already. The results of the protein is still a few years off though. I use antlermax, and some that is persimmon flavored mixed together. I started with 50 50 corn and protein until the deer got used to the protein.

Also I have only been doing it one year, but my fawns this year look extremely healthy compared to past years.

For your neighbors that hunt, you should talk to them and try to get them on board with feeding protein, if you have any type of relationship with them.

Protein will work as an attractant too. When I had protein in my feeder, I see LOTS of bucks, when they drain it, I start seeing does only.

+1 on talking to neighbors. Look up the qdma, you can accomplish 100 times more if your neighbors are like minded.

If your neighbors don't seem real interested, place you feeders centrally...I would do this anyway. The deer will stay on you place more often, also don't hunt your protein feeders, treat them as a "sanctuary" the bucks will learn that it's a safe place.

On 400 acres, I would recommend two free choice feeders. I would recommend you get a regular brand feeder. Preferably boss buck. Off all the different free choice feeders I come across, the boss buck feeders will keep the protein dry. ( I sell them by the way, but I sell only them because they are the best from what I've seen) Moisture is protein's worst enemy.

Protein works well, but you ought to be ready to pretty much keep the feeders filled year around if at all possible for the best bang for your dollar.

If you can put them within 400 yards (or less) of a water source it will be even better. Since you have livestock, put a pen around your feeder, cattle will get after the protein. If you have sheep you want them not to get it because almost all protein pellets I know of have copper in them and copper is toxic to sheep.

well my dad has told me before that the surrounding like 1600 acres (composed of more that one piece of property) is all in on some game management thing. all the ranchers get together and manage their deer pretty well for not having high fences, we get occasional big bucks wandering on our place. i have a feeder within eyesight of our house right now, maybe ill switch that to protein and move the corn elsewhere to hunt off of and add another corn feeder. we keep one feeder in sight of the house so we can watch deer off the front porch with binoculars. where can i get this stuff to go in a protein feeder? gander mtn/bass pro etc?

i have looked at the boss buck protein feeders and i like them a lot. however, i was thinkin of doing like a homemade thing like this:




also we have cows and goats, no sheep. glad you said that though because were about to get a bunch of dorper and sell off the goats.

I think anything you can feed that will grow better, healthier deer and that will attract more deer to your place is a definate plus.

Feed stores should cary it. Record Rack is good, Purina makes good pellets, Alderman Cave has good stuff, Lyssy & Eckels is good. There are others, but those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head. Feed store will have a variety, usually.

Neighbors management plan is good stuff. Everyone should benefit from that. Biggest thing you can do is let them get some age on them.

Put feeders out and you will have more than an occasional buck coming through. It will also help your does to make stronger babies which will pay off in the long run.

On 400 acres you can bet many of your young bucks will disperse to other ranches. But, you will have other bucks from the surrounding 1,600 moving in. Normal, nothing to even think about twice. Once the rut is on there will be all sorts of movement coming and going.

Have fun with it.

Those will work, the top one will end up catching moisture though. The second one looks okay from what I can see as long as the pvc is sealed well and you don't have sheet metal screws or pop rivets passing through the body of the feeder.

Didn't mean to imply, home made won't work. There are some home made jobs that are better than some of the commercially made all metal ones or those that have pop rivets through the sheet metal. The key is keeping moisture out, period.

we have one 250 protein feeder on our 320 acres, i think it has helped our herd

Is it too late to put out a protein feeder now.I am going to my property this weekend or should I just not disturb anything now ?

Do you live on this ranch. If so then a smaller feeder is fine for a free choice protein. Though if you are not out there for weeks at a time I suggest getting a 1000lb or more feeder as the deer will drain it quickly. If you have hogs I suggest building a pen as the hogs will drain a 1200lb feeder in about a week (they did on mine).

I don't think it is too late. Feed some corn while you are at it. If it's the first time one is on your property consider mixing it at least 75% protein to 25% corn or 50-50. Also leave some corn trails to the feeder like spokes on a wheel and mix some protein in with the spokes. That should help.

If you want to run protein during the season to keep the bucks healthy through the rut then go for it. However, the bucks are going to have other things on their mind and wont hit the feeders much, atleast not during the day. I would recommend starting up a protein plan January first so that you get the bucks back healthy intime for horn loss then shortly after horn growth.

i see. so legs welded on like in the top picture is better than legs screwed into the barrel if its for a protein feeder?

jw, are protein feeders left out yr around to grow big deer while corn is out during the season for bait and fat? think i read that somewhere but wasn't sure. i was also wondering if it was too late to put out protein...

i dont live on the ranch but im out there about ever other wknd. ill start out with a 30 or 55 gal drum feeder and see how it goes. might have to save up to something bigger but well see. theres a feed store down the road with a ton of deer hunting stuff so ill check with them as far as protein supplements

Protein is out year round so the deer always have that high protein diet to always keep their bodies in tip top shape so when they do start to grow their horns their diet will go towards mostly antler growth instead of going into getting them back into shape after the rut. Its also good for your does so that they are always healthy especially while they are pregnant/nursing.

Corn is definitely just an attractant. I run corn year round also but run it on a lower throw rate from February to September.

I have had corn feeders running for months.I do not live there but go out every other week.There is no fence around this place and is far as I can tell not much hunting going on on the land around my place.I have not seen a lot of deer on the place however there are several game trails running thru the place.i want to try and draw deer off the surrounding properties.

The lack of fence won't do anything except let other people on. Protein helps, but what will happen is that it has to help their bodies first and once that is taken care of it goes to the antlers. That is why in dry years, if you are not supplementing, the antlers will be less than in a wetter year because the food sources are more rich in nutrients.

The less holes you have penetrating the body of the feeder the better off you will be, because the less chance there will be for moisture to get to your protein.

Protein pellets suck up moisture like a sponge and then transfer it to the next and the next. Two things happen, if it is in the feed spout, odds are they will swell and clog it and if it is inside the feeder it will mold.

If you have hogs or cattle, strongly consider a pen, because they are very hard on those pvc feed spouts.

As far as getting deer to the place, what does the property look like? You need to have places they can bed and be secure. Brushy draws, woody/brushy motes of trees etc. Habitat is a pretty significant part of the picture.

there are places of open pasture but also places of cedar so thick i cant walk through it. theres definitely enough brush for deer, not worried about that.

i have seen some leg kits for feeders that come with a band that wraps around the barrel so theres no bolting or welding involved, will this be sufficient? and did you say i should probably place the protein feeder close to water? if so, i already have two spots in mind that are within 50 yds of water. one is a lot more open than the other though, the other has a lot of surrounding woods and brush

and what kind of protein should i get if pellets dont work well? should i get like that powdery stuff or what?

that is the kind of leg bracket I have.

I highly recommend putting your protein feeders in a secluded heavy cedar area that is barely wide open enough for you to get back their to fill it but sufficient area around it for multiple deer to mingle.

If you have water on your place you absolutely should put your protein feeders about 25-50 yards from that water source. You and the deer will benefit greatly from that setup.



Pellets is the way to go. Any kind of powder would be even more susceptible to moisture.

helomech- pm sent

jw, but why is it better to put the protein close to water?

Water is a necessity for them number 1 and number 2 it helps in the digestion of the pellets. You will be able to find pellets, any feed store will have them. Just get above 16% pellets and don't go with anything over 20% because most of that is for deer farm deer where there is nothing green for them to eat.

On free range deer anything over about 20% will just end up getting excreted. It would be like you taking 5 multiple vitamins a day, numbers 2 through 5 won't help you at all.

The land is very thick and there is plenty of places to hide so they should be very secure on this land.The only problem I see is there isa no water on the place.No cattle and I have not seen any signs of or hogs to date

Replied, if you have any other question please feel free to ask.

I gave up on protein feeders, not really the feeder itself but the feed. Loss from moisture is significant. Feed companies have gotten the pellet as hard as they can get it and any more weather proof destroys it's palatability. Still, it's not good enough and moisture robs the pellet of it's content, destroys it, and clogs your feeder.

I started to use Crystalyx Deer Block which is a semi-solid supplement in a tub. I buy the 125#, 60 gallon tub as it easier to handle than the larger one.

Protein content is 16% and the 125# tub is $59. There is an $11 deposit on the can which is taken back to the store.

What were you feeding the pellets out of?

I have 1 big horn metals 900 pound feeder, all welded...it has done alright, I get caked clumbs in the tubes every now and then.

The rest of my protein feeders are boss buck 1,100 pounders, I have had no issues with moisture, nothing even in the tubes...I'm sure the protein there has gotten wet but it's never clumped or caked.

I just wonder if the "amount" of protein/nutrients is enough to make a difference from those tubs...I've never actually heard of them.

from what ive read the boss buck seem to be some of the best commercially made protein feeders. im just concerned about them getting torn up since they are plastic... i dont really have hog problems and i keep pens around my feeders to keep goats out. idk its just things that arent heavy duty dont seem to last all that long at my ranch lol

helomech- does your homemade deal work ok?

I used the large All Season feeders, similar to any commercial feeder. I think we are to close to the coast here, our mornings are too wet. We normally don't shred or mow until noon as the moisture content of the grass is too high.

I get the tubs through a Ful-O-Pep dealer (Ful-O-Pep is based in Cuero), they are manufactured for Hubbard Feeds, Inc. by Crystalyx.

I actually sold all my protein feeders, I got tired of cleaning them out and dumping the feed on the ground for hogs.

The 1,200 are pretty heavy duty, the plastic is think polyurethane and the legs a heavy gauge galvanized sq. tubing.

I've only had them out at the ranch for a little over three years now, so I don't know how "long-term" they will hold up, but from what I've seen they'll be around for a while. I haven't seen any signs of wearing out.

I've also had to move several feeders after seeing certain travel patterns, I would much rather move a boss buck than my big horn metals or any other metal feeder.

Deerfeeder has been using them for much longer than I so he will probably chime in about that.

Works great, never had any clogs in over a year it has been in place.

You can buy feet for the bossbuck feeders that will let you stake them down if nee be. They are plenty tough. True story; I had a guy buy 8 of 1,200 pound Bossbuck protein feeders from me two or three years ago because the bears were tearing his regular feeders up! He has not had a problem with them and the bears and the feeders are still there.

It isn't hype or bs when I say they are the absolute best feeders, I have seen, when it comes to keeping moisture out of the protein. I depend on being credible.

man i really like the 500lb by feederguys on here. i just dont think i need something that big yet. i already dont have to refill my corn all the time. i think im gonna try out like a 55 gal drum type setup just like helomech for now and if need be go bigger later on.

i think the local feedstore carries stuff called deer chow? is that good?

You'd be surprised how often you will have to fill your feeders. Our feed bill is probably $8,000-$10,000 per year for 6,400 acres, and that's with a low deer density.

This has been a real dry year here. On the 300 pound bossbuck protein feeders (which hold 250 lbs of protein) I have been refilling them in less than 10 days and I have actually very little loss to coons. Much depends on the weather.

The boosbuck feeders have had several minor changes in the way they are built since I started selling them and all the changes have just made them more sturdy.

Homemade is fine, IF you can keep the moisture out. Re the bands that legs attach to. Those work okay. Their weakness is that if the feeder is not set level, or if you get a bunch of rain, the feeder will tend to put more pressure on one leg than the other two. If there is feed in the feeder it will tend to lean and the bands at times will buckle at that spot. Once that happens, the chances of totally straightening it out and it not continuing to fall at that point are pretty slim. Depends on the band and I'm sorry, I have no recommendations. I've seen it happen on HCR feeders and another brand, but I can't remember what the name was. It is fairly rare on HCR feeders though.

I fill my feeder about every 2 to 3 weeks. And it holds about 250lbs.

deerfeeder- do you have any experience with feederguys' feeders?

Nope sorry. Just did a search on them. If it is a solid weld inside, that's good. Can't tell on his feed spout openings if there is a slight overhang to protect the feed from water. Only thing that I would call a potential weakness, without seeing them, is that since they are metal you could get condensation build up inside. The prices are about right for what you are looking at, but that's jmo.

Best suggestion I can give ya if you go up to DFW to look at them take a side trip to Seagoville and look at the bossbuck feeders. Look at several brands. I would urge you to stay away from spot welds, sheet metal screws, or pop-rivets any of which are an invitation to problems.

Ive been using Monarch products for 3 years now. I have two of their 1100lb port protein feeders. They are excellent and have not had any problems with moisture.

http://www.deerfeeder.com/port.htm

Yes it is worth it because not only will you improve the overall quality of the herd in your area, depending on the style of protein feeder you use, your animals may come to depend on that feeder (ie, a continuous protein feeder) for nutrition & that will again make them want to stick around your area or know that to come back to. Do it

i really like the monarch products, but i dont wanna drive to arlington to pick something up and they dont have a list of dealers on their website. i called and the lady wasn't all that helpful in telling me dealers either. she said the owner doesn't list dealers because he prefers ppl coming to pick stuff up or shipping it out... not sure why

if i went with the 55gal drum route, would it be better to go with the big caps like you buy at academy that dont actually seal other a lid with a ring? seems like the inside will get to ambient temps quicker without a tight seal like youd get with a cap and ring

Go with a big lid, even if you have to put a rock on it to keep it on. That is one of the stronger points on the bossbuck feeders, they allow air to circulate which will minimize condensation inside.

If you are going to build your own you might consider these instead of straigh pvc spouts.

http://www.bossbuck.com/products/lowerunits/index.html

if i do that im not sure how i would get the spouts at the right height though... thats the only thing im concerned about. i might just end up buying a commercially made protein feeder and rig up another home brew corn feeder

anybody know of good places to look for feeders in the lampasas, gatesville, temple, milano, caldwell, college station area? thats basically thr route i take to my ranch is why i listed those spots

You ought to be able to buy pellets there too. Call 'em, see if they got what you need and want.

http://www.micobe.com/

Bossbuck dealer #6707
Micobe Inc.
607 N. Lutterloh
GATESVILLE, TX
Contact: David Wasson , Clint Blanchard
254.865.8226 Hours of Operation:
Monday - Friday :: 8am - 5pm
Saturday :: 8am - 1pm
Sunday :: 8am - 2pm
Email:Micobe@micobe.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow i had been trying to find his website just about all afternoon, google never pulled up micobe.com lol

thanks

If you buy their protein, ya might ask them some questions about it. From what I saw, all his stuff (the 16% and the 18% and the 20% and 22%) tags out the same, and don't get talked into 22%. 18 to 20% will do good from April through Sept/Oct and then if you think you need it you can drop down to 16% from Oct. on.

Commercial brand name company protein (Purina, Record Rack, etc) ought to run from about $9.50 a fifty lb bag to MAYBE $11.00, normally right now. Room for variation there depending on what it has in it.

talked to the local feedstore where my ranch is, they carry purina and store brand pellets. both are 20% and the store brand is $7.75/bag. you think thats a good price?

i think this wknd ill set up another corn feeder and then concentrate on a protein feeder. i feel like it wont do that much good this late and i might as well stay off the hunting grounds until after the season and put one up then. what do you think?

That's a good price. Id wait on the protein till later but if you aren't running corn now it will help to get it started.

Whether $7.75 a fifty is a good price or not depends on what is in it. I could brew up a concoction using saw dust and old motor oil and some other stuff that would legitimately tag out at 20%, but I wouldn't feed it to deer.

haha what should i expect to pay per 50lb bag of that purina antlermax stuff

I think I pay around 8 or 9 bucks for 50lbs.

Not sure on the antlermax, but Purina makes a 20% that is not carrying the Antlermax label that should go for about $9.50 to $10.00 a fifty lb bag.

Shoot, I have no idea about the local brand, it might be good stuff. All I'm saying is see if they have decent vitamins and minerals in it which is way more important than just simply saying it's 20%.

i think ill compare the content labels of the bags. i might save a couple dollars a bag by going with the no name brand and it might be just about equal to the purina

nothing wrong with saving money as long as it is not being "penny wise and pound foolish." Local mills can make just as good a feed as national companies. Lyssy & Eckels isn't exactly a local company, but they aren't national either, and they make very good feeds.

If you can find out the company that makes this store brand it will help us know if its good. They are all made by someone. Most of them have websites with their nutritional values listed.

ill check when i go in this wknd. i plan on putting up one or two more corn feeders and saving a protein project for later on like jan 1st ish

Good choice. And again I highly recommend you save up for a 1000+ lb protein feeder.

id rather get a large protein feeder like a 1000 lb but then i remember this is 400 acres low fenced.... i got a buddy with 1600 acres in pearsall thats low fenced and he said theyre not buying protein feeders till they get the place high fenced, and he knows what hes talking about

i was talking to him about it the other day and he said a protein feeder on my place will definitely help to get deer in my area etc but in the rut, bucks move around so much that if its not high fenced that your not necessarily gonna see the results youve been paying for if that makes sense

Which is why you want to get with your neighbors and see what they are doing. When you high fence, yes you are fencing "your" deer in, but you are also fencing "new" genetics out. Double edge sword there.

High fence also means you have to stay on top of the deer numbers.

ya exactly thats why i dont think we will ever high fence. idk if i would ever completely high fence a piece of property actually, our place is a working ranch that id like to deer hunt on, not a deer hunting paradise with no livestock if that makes sense. if we had no livestock and had all the time in the world to manage deer, itd be a different story.

we have 526 acres near Topsey (between Gatesville and Lampasas). We bought one 1,000 lb protein feeder in Jan 2008 and will add another one in January 2009. We are low fenced. We just decided that we were going to do what we were going to do, regardless of what the neighbors do. We've told them our management plans as far as what types of bucks we are looking to shoot and what types we intend to let walk. Mainly that was just to let them know they didn't have to worry about us shooting the young 8 pointers if they let them walk. It's funny how people will kill deer they really don't want to kill if they think the neighbor will kill it if they pass on it.

We've been planting, feeding, and managing brush / habitat for several years now. There are some BIG bucks hanging around Lots of young, wide 9 and 10 point bucks that we estimate at 2.5 years old. Yes, sometimes the neighbors will kill one of "our bucks", but we're increasing our chances of a good buck also. If you feed, provide cover, and provide water (creeks and stock tanks), then you get the does to become resident. I good harem sticking around on the property, and the Big Boys will come calling... Just put the protein near some cover on a central part of the property. You want it as far away from the neighbors as you can get it.

lackey- i bet your place is beautiful, we have land right outside gatesville and it is awesome. so i want my protein as centralized on the property as possible but also close to water. one of our tanks is pretty dead on in the center of the property but its fairly open around it. theres some heavy brush that i always see does in thats about 100 yds from the tank that i guess i could put the protein in. one of our other tanks has thick cedar around most of it and it would be a perfect spot to put the protein since i could put it really close to the water but that tank is close to the edge of the property...

deer don't really care about fences or who owns the property. They need water, food, and habitat. If you provide those you will have deer.

No offense, but 400 acres is pretty much the core area for one, or maybe two, bucks. MELackey is right, get a place for the does to feel comfortable and make their home territory and the bucks will be around.

Just keep pluggin', you are on the right track. You will have successes and failures. Learn from both.

and protein should help keep does in my area? should i leave corn out yr around just turn the feeder down some to help keep does also?

run corn from sept.-jan. and protein year 'round. I rarely get does at my protein but will have groups of 7-10 at the corn feeders.

Definitely continue to run corn year round. Just turn it down to a really small throw once in the morning. If you do it only in the morning the hogs are less likely to be the ones to eat it. It may not always be the case since I still sometimes see hogs at the feeder in the morning.

we fill the corn late September / Early October and fill as needed, letting it run dry in January. The protein is fed all year long, generally with some corn mixed in it. We tried leaving the corn on all year long, but the hogs and coons were the only ones taking advantage of it so we saved that expense. We occasionally fill 1 or 2 of 55 gallon corn feeders with protein in January and let them go a few months, but not with any regularity.

Jack, if you are on Facebook, I have a few photos from the ranch you can view if you want to, just need to add you to the friend list.

ya im on facebook, whats your name ill friend request you

ill guess ill keep my corn on after the season and turn it down. ill keep my camera on it and if there are no deer coming to it ill turn it off. although if there are hogs coming to it, ill keep it on and hunt it. we dont have many hogs at our place (yet) but i know theyre there. if i can get them coming to the feeder they will be easier to shoot

check your pm's

We used to feed various brands of 20% protein pellets. We have fed Purina, Full o Pep and Coop brands of deer pellets. I met a person that lives in my area and he raises axis, fallow and white tail deer. I actually met him at our local Coop. He invited me and my son to come to his ranch and lok at his deer. While we were there he was feeding all he feeds is 14% calf creep small pellets. I asked him about his choice of feeds. He told me that deer in tip top shape can only digest a maximum of 20% protein. Free range deer are rarely if ever in tip top shape to digest the maximum 20%. I have since switched to the 14% calf creep in my protein feeders I have not noticed a difference in antler production on the deer at my lease. My lease is not in a prime location for high scoring B&C deer. I have been on this lease for 15 years, for the 1st 5 to 6 years we had very few decent bucks. Even allowing the deer to age the antlers didn't produce much improvement. Once we started providing the protein within 2 years we started seeing progress. We still do not have the large trophies we would like but I believe the genetics are holding us back. 3 years ago we changed to the calf creep and the antler growth has not dropped off. We hunt on about 450 acres with very little hunting pressure around us. We have 3 large ranches that surround us and 1 is high fenced the other 2 do not allow hunting period. The calf creep helps and cost about .50 a bag more than shelled corn.

your lease isn't high fenced? where is it?