Change start of hunting season?

Ok, newbie here that wants to share a theory I’ve been preaching for the past 15+ years. After reading the “Just like back in the rut” thread, it made me think of my theory.
18 years ago, we moved into our home in Corpus. There was an orange tree and we picked oranges on Xmas day that year. After a few years, I noticed it was getting later & later in the year to pick them. Last year we picked oranges the day before Valentine’s Day because of possible freeze (again, in Corpus). I still have oranges that aren’t quite ready to pick this year. So my theory I have been debating is, it seems like what I call the Climalogical Clock has shifted. The weather pattern seems to be it stays warmer…longer, and the colder weather comes later, make sense? As I put it, seems like the weather calendar should start with December being the 1st month and January the last, again, does that make sense to anyone? As I stated, I base this on personal observations and my orange tree harvesting.
With that being said, and if this truly a pattern, seems to me this would greatly effect hunting season? I’ve discussed this with my hunting buddies, who have hunted much longer than I have, and they never thought of it that way, but they agree. Would it seem advantageous to anyone to move the start of hunting season to the 1st week of December and end middle of February? It seemed to me down here in South Texas, the rut was just getting real good about the time the season ended. Again, these are my very newbie observations. May it is different for other regions, just throwing this out for debate. Kel

Interesting idea. Would've certainly helped this season - the start of the season was pretty slow and with all the acorns dropping - there wasn't a lot of activity until January.

I do see a couple of potential problems though -

1. There'd be confusion among hunters on when seasons start/end.
2. Weather patterns may not be consistent enough to properly adjust the dates with enough time notify everyone ahead of time.
3. Perhaps how it is now is optimal for healthy populations. For example, I heard from the local processor that the number of deers processed was way down this year compared to last. Having a slower year due to weather patterns may help boost the population after a productive year like the 2018 season was.

Not really sure about the other thread, but the Rut in Bosque county has remained the same for the past 20 years...Starts around the second weekend of Nov and is Full Thanksgiving weekend..Kinda spills in to the first week of Dec...Only Change I would like to see would maybe be open it Mid Nov and end Mid Jan and cut out the bs Doe and Spike season...We are MLD and can hunt till last weekend of Feb but we shut it off first weekend in Feb...
Does by then are showing they are preggo and no one wants to clean a doe that has a 5lb fetus in it, and about 50% of our bucks have dropped their horns....

Deer movement may be affected by weather but their physiology is based on other factors. For example- bucks dropping their antlers. When I was on a LAMPS lease here in east Texas and hunted does until the end of February, we had to be very careful that the doe we just shot was not a buck that had already dropped his antlers. Also, rut is based on moon phase at a particular time of the year- I know that a weather change can seem to trigger it but any kind of stress can affect something like that.

I don't buy into your theory at all. I have no doubt that you perceive that the weather patterns are shifting, but perception is just that. Perception. In reality, I'd be willing to bet that if you did an exhaustive search, laid out a spreadsheet with temps and dates for the last 20 years, you would not see an appreciable change.

No, STX rut has always been latter then the rest of the state in most parts, in some parts on the eastern edge it’s actually the first rut of the state in Oct

Seasons are based off a stain ability harvest model. States with lower densities don’t have rifle rut hunts or have a short firearm season.

Texas has an extended season into almost March if they meet certain management criteria. Texas is so geographically diverse that program is a Must IMO

Yep weather is tricky and helps but the solar/ lunar times are what seem to drive the rut. I've always gotten my best deer on the week of the full moon in October or November in Central Texas and in South Texas the week of the full moon in December or January. After looking at the times I plan my trips that way. This just based on about 24 years of observation though.

As the climate changes, and continues to change, we will experience an increasing number extreme weather patterns. I believe that these changes can have an affect on the breeding pattern. I've noticed more late born fawns in the last few years than the previous 10 years, and I am leaning towards an opinion that this may be due, in part, to these changing environmental conditions.

I believe it was Dr. Ian Malcolm who said "Nature will always find a way"

Ive sat a lot of opening weekends in workout shorts and a t-shirt sweating my azz off. This year was in the 50's if I recall correctly. Many things change year to year, I don't believe this theory is accurate over time.

I posted this exact observation a while back in another thread. I've noticed the same thing as the OP....seasonal temp changes have moved a couple weeks later in the year compared to 30 years ago. When I was a kid it was never as hot in September dove hunting as it is now, and it always seemed colder hunting in November. Now it seems the coldest days of the year are usually in February. March is still chilly, but when I was a kid we were usually swimming during Spring Break.

If anything, the rut in Mills county has been earlier than usual the last few years.

That means we would be hunting a lot of bucks without antlers because a lot start to shed in February.

We see more late born fawns on one property we hunt but we see more deer (more does) than we do on other places. I still see a few bucks that seem like they are chasing but its because those does didn't get bred the first part of the rut. We have 2 older does that stay by the house and they seem to always get bred later than the rest. The doe to buck ratio on that place is 6 or 8 to 1 (3000 acres owner doesn't believe in taking does). They don't have enough time to breed all the does so it seems like a long rut there. It could go from September to February some years. Of course there is a peak but there is always a trickle up and a trickle down but still have chasing going on. The more does and less bucks the longer the rut seems. Funny thing is its only 12 miles west of our primary hunting place where it seems like you could miss the rut if you blink, but the ratio is 1 or 2 does to 1 buck. (managed that way)

You should send your landowner some nice literature on ratios with your next cheque.

I've included pictures. This is one of three shooting lanes Only 2 bucks here and a few other does out of view to the left.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/youre-...iac-sign-isnt-what-you-think-11582295400

Basically it says the earth's wobble, as is goes through it's orbit, has changed and things, and over the years things (dates) have shifted. As outrageous as that sounds, to me it is just as plausible, or more so, than climate change.

There would be a lot more big mule deer killed if the season started the week of Christmas.

Having a minor in wildlife biology and studies in all sciences, botany, chemistry, physics, etc, I don't want to totally discount your theory. However, there are cyclical factors including hormonal, regional weather, change in land management, as well as pressure from predators an human activity that effect animal and plant life. We have to keep in perspective the limited time in the life of the universe/earth that humans have been living/studying, and keeping records of these events. Therefor our broad, definitive conclusions on these matters are speculations at best.

All that to say, why do we even have seasons if we have bag limits. If you kill (harvest) your annually alloted 3 to 5 deer in February or May, why is that not allowed but you can kill them October - January? Why can we kill 5 ducks a day for like 60 plus days (300 plus ducks) but we get a fine for killing six on opening day yet that's the only day we'll hunt waterfowl that year?

That one is easy to answer...you don't want to be killing does who have fawns that are too young to survive on their own. The survival ratio of fawns would plummet if you could kill does in May, June, July.

Yours is an easy one as well. If you kill that same doe in January, the chance of her fawn surviving is zero.

Why do people always correlate hunting season with cold weather?

Deer season in other states start in July and August and antelope starts in August

Most mammals where it gets cold or should I say there is a real winter will mate so that their babies are born in the spring when resources are plentiful. The fact most mate when its cold means activity specifically daytime activity is higher. Also many animals have thicker coats in winter and tend to move more in daylight hours when its not hot outside.

Are you taking into account the food source? Deer harvested earlier in he season put less of a strain on the available food.

Elk mate in September. , Bear mate in spring, Deer along the Texas coast mate in October. Deer in Florida mate in July I’m told

I don’t know what you mean by “most mammals “ ?

This is actually a question i have been wondering about for a while, though not as much for hunting as other things. It seems like to me the seasons have shifted slightly in the last few years. I usually have a huge garden at my house and this year especially i had tomato plants growing and producing through January this year before they finally got whacked by a hard enough freeze. I noticed this last year as well when gardening that i could have planted a crop of corn in September and still harvested full ears before it got cold enough to kill it off. I live in the SA area. I also agree with many of the above that while rut is nice during the colder temps as it keeps the deer moving and needing to eat, other factors tend to trigger that. Until i start to see bucks dropping their horns later in the spring, i am going to think season needs to stay the same as has been mentioned above about possibly shooting bucks that had dropped thinking they were does. I do think something odd is going on with our weather in this part of the world though

I thought the rut had to do with the amount of light in a day? Turkey season has always started too late.

Mule deer in the panhandle should start later, but that would over work the wardens trying to keep up with pheasant and deer hunters.

Wrong, if you kill a doe in January her fawn will typically survive because it is 6 months old.

Elk mate sooner bc their Gestation period is longer than a deer by almost 2 months which still puts their babies being born in spring, Southern states are different bc they don’t have the same the typical 4 seasons. I grew up in Florida winter there is t really winter minus a few cold days here and there so doesn’t make a huge deal when the babies are born same with much of the Texas coast.

So what mammals are you talking about that mate in the winter? Besides whitetail deer and mule deer?

Moose mate in September, Buffalo mate from July-September, Antelope mate from September-October.

Starting to run out of animals on the North American continent that mate in winter

Her current year fawn is ready been kicked off by Jan. If you are agrueing her fetus, it dies when momma dies but that’s not why we have a fall hunting season

The agruement of hunting in the summer is pure success which coincides with participation. Deer dont move much in the heat, most deer movement is After or before LST.

I'm more interested in them doing something permanently with daylight savings time!

Ok geez Fall not winter. By winter I meant when it starts getting cooler not the specific season based on the calendar. Why are you so angry did you fall out of your big truck or something?

I think what LakeFork is referring to is that you are killing a bred doe.

Thanks. You saved me the response.

Lots of good dialogue. I do want to clarify, I did not mean to imply any of this to climate change...just a "climate" observation. As a fairly new hunter (3 full seasons), still have much to learn. Trying to compare apples to oranges....or oranges to hunting, may not be a fair gauge to my original thought process. I will defer to those more experienced hunters on the whys and why nots on the rut. I can say with out a doubt, that something is going on with my tree. As stated, the 1st year here, we picked oranges on Xmas day, and though I did not document it, it has been taking about 2 weeks or so longer each season to harvest the oranges. There as never been a year where it was earlier in the year when they were ready to be picked. We picked most of them yesterday, but still have a number of them that are still greenish. Appreciate the input, interesting stuff, Kel

I stopped reading when you failed to spell out Christmas, but did note you did spell out Valentine's....

How young was the tree when you moved their 15+ years ago? I could see where a young tree might try to get fruit off sooner, and as it matures, it becomes later.

I personally think the WT season should start the first of Dec. and end the last day of Dec. And it should be all inclusive. Rifle, Bow, Mussel Loader, Youth, and whatever else they have tacked on to it over the years. If a person can't kill a Deer in a month they need to find another place to hunt or take lessons.

What if they plan to fill thier tags and take 6? What if they can only hunt weekends? What if they were just hunting one specific elusive Buck? What if they want to exerience hunting all the different phases of the rut? Hunting is about more than just killing. If it were just about killing, then I could go get all my killing done in a long weekend in most cases. But that's not what it is about.

Well why not have it start in Sept and end in March? Would that make everyone happy? You think then they could kill that elusive buck? Then they could hunt the rut in all of Texas. They would then have plenty of weekends to hunt. 7 months of hunting should be plenty of time to kill their 6 deer.

Easy explanation of seasonal variations is that the Earth wobbles on its axis. According to scientist who study this, the current Earth wobble is the main cause of the season changes. It is also causing changes in the magnetic north, especially the past two years. Airports worldwide have to change their runway designations to coincide with the magnetic north changes.

Several articles that discuss this such as this one from NASA -

https://newatlas.com/nasa-earth-axis-shift/56443/

Well, if you are going to force it on me, then fine. I'll take the extra 3 months. You have to be the one to inform my wife though.

Come on DonK. With all due respect, surely you get it. Uncle Bubba explained it great so maybe reread it. Ill try an analogy. Some guys fish almost every day of the year. Do you think it takes them every day all year long to catch a fish? Should they stop fishing for the year after they catch a fish or a limit or an elusive big one? I could go on about other hobbies(tennis, golf). I spend many thousands of dollars a year and hunt 30 to 40 days and go years without killing a buck and I am perfectly happy. My goal is to hunt MORE not LESS because I enjoy everything about the experience. To each his own but IMO the majority of deer hunters are in no rush to hurry up and kill so that they can stop. There are reasons why hunting seasons are set the way that they are but I wouldn't think that any of the reasons have anything to do with how long it takes to kill a deer.

I guess my chasing DonKs comments was really getting off topic. Ill make up for it by commenting directly to the OPs original post.
I know nothing about oranges or climate change but I do know my fair share about the timing of the rut. I don't think any of those have a lot to do with how season dates are set. Assuming the rut is defined as the primary time period when the majority of breeding takes place then I don't think it varies much at all within a given area. What a particular hunter may see and perceive as the "rut" will vary a lot depending on other factors but the breeding is taking place at about the same time, regardless. Keep in mind that bucks are ready, willing and able to breed any time they are in hard antler which is roughly half a year. The fact that an individual buck is seen showing apparent interest in a doe is NOTHING close to an indication of when the entire herd will breed.
As far as other reasons for changing the season dates, I think most have been touched on like fawn weaning timing and horn dropping timing. I guess social/economic reasons are in there somewhere but that's not my wheel house.

What about hunter participation? And local revenue influx?


Seasons and tag allocation are based off success rates but also factor in hunter participation.

Let’s be honest most people could kill all 5 deer in a weekend and hardly get out of a truck... if that was the only goal

I am being honest. If hunter participation and local revenue influx is the main concern lets have a 7 month season. Where is the cut off? A month long season? a 2 month? A 3 month and so on?

For most people that hunt it isn’t just about the killing of deer. Many of us display the same amount of pride as the ranchers. The raising of animals and the work that is put into it. We hurt when we lose one, and are happy to see one make it. For some it may be a way to unwind and get away from the daily grind of life. With some of our jobs we would only get one weekend to hunt. For others it’s getting back to nature. Many of us enjoy the outdoors and the land we lease more than the actual owners of it. Others it is about connecting with friends or family, or using the opportunity to teach and raise our kids correctly. For me it is a bit of all the above.

Lets just leave it alone and keep it as it is now. Changing it to December would make us in North East Texas miss out on the rut. Also as for having only one month to hunt would knock a whole lot of working people out of hunting at all. Fall is when a whole lot of companies do their maintenance turnarounds. Getting 2 to 3 days off per month during them really hurts, especially when they block out the entire month for vacation.

Some just can't take a joke. I could give a rats rear end when it starts or stops. I have a certain amount of Deer I need taken and the season ends then. Usually way short of the TPWS season.

Science says the earth is millions of years old. 18-30 years will give you nothing as far as climate changes/trends. Very well could be happening as in your experience, but probably not a trend of any consequence.

When you look back over the centuries and see the dramatic swings in climate NONE of them were man made.....and they still aren't....hell, 20-30 years ago they said we were moving towards an ice age if we didn't submit to the government....then it was global warming.....when it was proven wrong they changed to climate change so any anomaly in the weather can be blamed on man....

I wish to hell there was an open season, no bag limit on libturds…..

If they did that I'd quit my day job and become a professional hunter....

You guys need to take a more important cause like keeping Feb. 29th a permanent day!

That and get rid of day light savings time.