WORST PHONE CALL EVER

Just received a phone call from land owner he is selling the property and not guaranteeing deer hunting this year.
Was a small family 4 of us. Almost September and now What? Anyone have any ideas or help on what we can do.
Lesson learned no contract. What happened to a mans word.

Sorry to hear that. I also learned the hard way to have a contract. Best of luck.

Sucks man. IMO a contract doesn't even secure your spot on a particular ranch. It's nice to have, but how many guys are willing to spend money on attorneys and drag it out if the LO wants you off?

We're on a new place this year and the previous guys have hunted it for the past 18 years with no contract. LO apparently doesn't do contracts.

Thanks guys. Hopefully all will workout. Just a lot of blood and sweat over the last 4yrs.

Is he selling or is the property sold? If the property is just going on the market it takes time to find a buyer and close the deal. You just might luck out this year unless he lists at s fire sale price.

I have lost 2 hunting spots in similar circumstances. Not much you can do, sorry to hear it.

you know that as one door closes another one opens

you have to open it ,,,,, go find that door

He said just listing it. So hopefully we do get to hunt their this year.

It happened to us 2 years ago. Nothing you can do. I've seen even with a contract with the land owner, property gets sold, and hunters still lose the property. Our place was for sale for 2 years, and we were able to hunt there for 2 good years.

Yes hopefully one opens fast.
Cabo do you have something in mind. Hahaha

I did have some but not now

check Land & Leases often, I think there 's a spot in San Saba

I NEVER told my hunters about a sale unless it was already done. Hunters who know they're hunting their last season on a place are not gonna be very good stewards.

And this situation is why I decided decades ago to own my own property. Leasing is so risky.

I heard that. We were told we wouldn't be hunting a place in Schleicher the next year. Opening weekend of gun, the new guy came into camp telling us about 'new rules'. Everybody shot deer that year...I mean everybody.

I decided, years ago, that leasing sucks..this after several bad experiences. Fortunately, I am a "Texas Vet" and bought my own place. I never look back..

Good deal, Dh3. Thank you for your service, welcome to the THF, and good luck on your place

Yup.

But for the OP, I'm sorry it's going down this way and I do hope everything works out. But if I may add a little perspective, it's not the worst call ever.

I agree with kry

You never know what will happen. Stay friendly with the landowner. Continue to treat the place & landowner with respect. We were in the same position 15 or so years ago. The place sold & the new owner leased it to us. Some of our group still have the place leased.

Buy the place. Problem solved

You know the saddest thing about hunting to me is that how hard is to find a good hunting spot and then loosing it. Ive delt with it too, whether a land owner dies off, politics, or just some old spooky wife of a land owner that has been watching way way too much 700 club. You know like when she asks him why does that guy come out here so much, and the old man says he is just hunting. Then the wife says I don't feel good about it, and that's the end of that. I got online the other day to look at hunting property, man hunting has become so over commercialized and over priced. Saw one piece for 10 dollars an acre, WOW! You would have to have 20 people to make it affordable and then deal with 19 yahoos all around you. Yuck!

$10.00 an acre is actually cheap in my opinion. If you can't afford to buy your own place, or afford to hunt on a nice place, then try knocking on doors. You'd be surprised what a friendly 10 minute conversation can accomplish.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. Unless it's priced fairly aggressively, a large ranch can easily take a couple years to sell. Good chance you'll have it this year and next.

I can think of several phone calls I've received over the last few years that were absolute heart-breakers. Possibly losing a deer lease isn't anywhere near that bad. Good luck with getting another year out of the place and/or finding a new lease, though.

Good luck.

Your right! It could be a lot worse.

I doubt any landowner would sign a lease contract that prevents them from selling their land. Your contract is good so long as they own that land. It sux but that is the risk of leasing. $10/acre is cheap for a lease on a good ranch. I paid $18/acre on the last place I leased. I also paid for all the feed, blinds, feeders and pens.

What makes the landowners word no good? Did he tell you that you would be able to hunt the property forever or did you just assume it would stay that way?

Been there. At least he told you. The lease I was on before my current one I found out it was for sale when a real estate agent went riding past my stand with a family while I was hunting. And it sold fairly quick.

$10 is really cheap. I have heard of $25-$50 often. Although location, quality, and quantity need to be considered.

And indeed there are much worse calls that you can get. I thought this may be a prayer chain post.

Amen brother Kry. To the OP, this surely,,, well,, sucks, but if it is the worst call you get this year, it was a good phone call. Roll with it, tomorrow is another day.

X2

If you think 10/acre is outrageous, I hope you don't ever have to look for a new place to hunt! You may become a former hunter.

I can top that. On the way to my lease a few years back the weekend before season started and got a phone call from the fellow I leased from. Turns out place we had been hunting for a few years that had "been in his family" forever apparently wasn't in his family and he didn't have the hunting rights to. Nothing like pulling in to load up your stuff and have to deal with a couple big dudes that want to know why the hell you've been hunting grandma's pasture.

If you paid ask for your money back. If not maybe see if he'll pay month to month and ride it out til he sells - who knows might take a while. If not find another place.

I can find a lot of them $5-8/ac.

Unfortunate to be sure but honestly if that is the worst call you have ever received, you have lived a charmed life and truly have nothing to to complain about. Best of luck to you finding a new lease.

I will let you come watch.....if you will be real quiet.

So you'll pay me $5-8/ac just to be in my quiet presence?

What happened to 100 dollars a gun? greed that's what That's what we paid for a 1200 acre lease in Llano in the late 80s early 90s. There was only 5 of us on it. Hunting got famous thanks to 24 hour round the clock hunting shows. Used to have to rent them or order them. That 10 dollar deal was 17,300 dollars a year for a crappy county and you can have it.

Currently paying $6.25 an acre with the possibility of taking a 150 class buck. Good price in today's market IMO.

Greed? Buy your own place and pay the bills. Land cost, taxes, maintenance (roads, fences, habitat management), livestock, drought, flooding, insurance,......list goes on. Then you have every friend who wants to come out to hunt for "free". Nothing is free or low cost, someone paid for your privilege of low cost or free hunting...you didn't. Today's hunting prices came from 15-20 yrs of serious drought that have left ranchers struggling to pay bills. Higher fuel costs, less livestock to no livestock due to drought, no water, wells going dry, higher insurance costs, habitat management, fence repairs, road repairs(sometimes due to those "free" hunters tearing them up)...the list goes on. Go back to that 1200 acres in Llano and ask to lease it today. Hunting is not any more famous today than it was 50 yrs ago. Costs of everything are way more today than 50 yrs ago and even 20 yrs ago.

It is greed. You cant blame mother nature on the hunters and take it out on them. Buy some cows or declare it a tree farm. The taxes would be dirt cheap. Greed got my friends kicked off that lease in Llano. They were on it for 14 years and someone do a deal under the table for more money and they lost it. Ya 100 dollars a gun is cheap, but its just hunting and not gold mining. At 10 dollars an acre that place would be 12,000 dollars now days, so that's 11,500 dollars more. See what Im talking about. 30 to 40 years and people see the dollar signs. Hey its all about the biz and not about the freedom to affordably hunt. If all your friends want to come out and hunt, just be thankful you have friends that like to hunt and let them come out in moderation. Bird hunts usually make for some good comraderie. Some of my best huntin buddies are dead and I can promise you when there gone youll wish they were out there hunting on your place with you. I used to try to hunt strictly by myself for big bucks and still do sometimes, but the enjoyment you get hanging out BSin out in the woods is priceless. Trust me high dollar hunting leases put big bucks in peoples pockets and Im talking about the paper kind.

I don't disagree with stx, costs are going to rise. But one cannot ignore the impact hunting shows and outdoor channels have had on land availability. My buddy in Kansas used to have unfettered access to thousands of acres of farmland owned by his farmer friends. Little by little, year by year, that access dwindled as the farmers "leased" their land to outfitters and hunt clubs as they could double their income per year. Those that could buy, did.

Whitetail Properties doesn't exist because farmers costs went up.

There was a place near me listed for $333 an acre a month or so ago. Bow only. It isn't listed anymore so I'm assuming somebody leased it.

And OP, there are much worse phone calls than losing your lease. Quit being a drama queen and move on.

Sent you a PM

My wifes fathers family has 19000 acres in New Mexico, that's 19 thousand ! and Ive never been able to hunt it, because they sale there tags to a guide service out of Houston ? The wife and I have been together for over 16 years. NO LOVE there just money. Its a cattle ranch and they do make money on the cows too. They are a bunch of non hunters and don't have a clue bout what a hunter loves to do. NOT A CLUE look at you like who cares. And so Im guessing that housing and land have gone up 24xs in value since the 1990s. 1200 acres for 5 hunters at 100 ollars each is 500 dollars. 10 dollars an acre for 1200 acres is 12,000 dollars and that's 24 times the 100 dollar a hunter price.

1990 what did a pick up cost? 2015 f250 are over 60k now.
Kansas was in a huge drought for past 6 years. No crops and CRP was even released for emergency grazing.
New Case 300hp tractor is $350k plus. I've seen combine for almost $500k. Commercial water well for irrigation is 100k.

Whitetail properties exist because people don't want to try to make a go at via living off the land... Double edge sword. Can't say farmers and ranchers costs haven't gone up. When you can make more off selling then you can in 20 years of farming and ranching you can hate on the rancher/farmer. That's a mirror. Can't blame TV shows when your posting on a hunting forum.

Costs go up and everyone feels the pain. Land owners, hunters etc. My home value has gone up so much In The last 4 years that If trend continues i doubt I could afford the taxes when I retire.


My hunting expenses have double and I've cut back on other stuff so I can keep it up. Part off it.

Offshore fishing charter run you 1500-2500 bucks. But boat, fuel and insurance would run you 150k plus.

Llano county 4500acres 19 million. Some body is selling if your buying!

http://m.landsofamerica.com/results/?county_ID=6173&state_ID=48

I think it is simply and purely supply and demand.

It would be fool hearty for a LO to not try and get what the market will bear. Some will even keep a lower price just to keep a good group of folks, but most will go with the trend. Just another "commodity" for a LO to add to his income.

If there was no demand, there wouldn't be a market for it. I don't see where anyone can be made to blame.

This^^^ and you are only kidding yourself if you think a landowner is wrong for asking what the market will bear.
What makes anyone so special when it comes to leasing the LO land?
There will always be someone who will plop down the money, and you can be sure the season won't come and go without someone leasing the property no matter how outragious you may think the price.
It's an old and worn out saying, but they aren't making land anymore, and if it's not public someone owns it and they can charge what they want or sell it to the highest bidder, and you have to have money to play the game.

Reality check. If they were paying 100 a gun in 1990 that was way under priced in 1990. So to use that as a benchmark for your calculations is clueless. For you to expect a landowner to give you a ridiculously low price to hunt because you love to hunt is a socialist point of view.
Have you offered to work for your Inlaws on their ranch? Or do you just expect them to give you something for nothing because you love to hunt?

My hunting enterprise is a LONG TERM BUSINESS and I operate to maximize my return over the LONG TERM. My hunters are my partners in the long range goals for the ranch. They pay a little above market price but they are not armpit to armpit like some places. It apparently works for them because the nucleus of my group have been with me for years. I could get more in my pocket by raising the price and bringing a dozen or so more hunters but there is an old story about a goose and a golden egg!

The "love to hunt" means jack sh%t to a LO, he would rather have someone that takes care of his property as he would or better, if he could get the same $ for "camping/fishing lease", they'd do that.

I can guarantee you one thing with a certain amount of certainty, if I had family that close with 19k acres, I'd be able to hunt on it way or the other, I would make my efforts a worth while investment to their program that they wouldn't even consider a "no". If I hit them with the "poor me attitude", wouldn't expect them to even acknowledge I exist.

Gee, Thanks Flo, can I get sprinkles?

I didn't say costs haven't gone up. In fact I said the opposite and that I agreed with stx. I am a land owner, so I have a pretty good idea of the associated costs. My neighbor has a $500k cotton round baler and pivot irrigation on every 160. But that wasn't my point.

My point was that you cannot ignore the impact that the outdoor shows/channels have had on the availability of land. But yes, even prices too. These influences have absolutely brought more land people into the game either through leasing or outright purchase, reducing supply. The rising costs, or lack of availability, cannot be attributed to the costs of land ownership or farming alone.

These influences have created entire industries. Just walk through Cabela's, take a gander at Campbell Cameras' website, and yes, even Whitetail Properties. The outdoor industry has had a REAL impact on land prices and availability. That cannot be ignored. That's all I'm saying. There's no blame here, it's just reality.

P.S. I've been on hunting forums almost as long as internet has been widely available to the average consumer (late 90's). The Outdoor channel was founded in 2004, Sportsman Channel was founded in 2003, and the Pursuit Channel in 2008. Until then, outdoor programing largely consisted of Bill Dance and the occasional hunting show on the Nashville Network. Drurys and the Robertsons were on the VHS if you wanted real hunting action.

Greed? You have got to be banging me! If you get to hunt a decent piece of property and it costs you 3-6K per year you have a bargain compared to the cost of buying and maintaining property. You get all the benefits with none of the responsibilities. I have a small place and put a bunch down on it and I pay over 10K a year in PITI. Then there's the umbrella policy to protect me from some knucklehead who is trespassing and hurts himself. All this and I haven't mowed, fed, graded, repaired, paid electric etc. etc. Yes, I get the appreciated value but I have to sell to pocket that. You don't have the slightest idea what goes into being the person responsible, you just get to pay some cash, buy some corn and go enjoy the fruits of the LO's labor. Get a grip!

I get what you are saying but hill country is a perfect example 9k an acre isn't because of hunters. Lots of out of state retirees and city retirees looking to lowering thier cost of living and cashing in on massive appreciation on homes etc. No more land being made.

Hunting is A small part of such a hike in land prices. Era of the large ranches are ending quickly

I just wanted to say Thanks for the optimistic attitude. I really appreciate it.
I might have over exaggerated a little by WORST PHONE CALL. Hahaha.

Somehow this turned into a debate on finances on cost of leasing hunting land.

Yes it is expensive to lease land but, I can't go out and buy me 600acres for my family to hunt on either.
I sometimes look and say wow that is a lot of time and money invested for 3months.
But every year as it approaches to fall I get anxious and dream of shooting a monster(haha)
I have kids that are now old enough to hunt and look forward to it aswell. I have a 8yr old boy who wants to shoot his first deer this year and a 10yr old girl too.
NOW I don't know about y'all but I can't really put a price tag on memories. (Haha well maybe not 20k)you get my point though.
Hunting is like Disney land only Bambi gets shot.

So yes we all like to hunt but we might not get to hunt the south texas big monster porcupine due because of money. But it's memories and the thrill. So I will continue to pay LO in my budget but I dare not tell them they are over priced because they see what their land is valued.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL THIS SEASON
AND GOD BLESS

Talk about out of touch.

I wish that everybody who gripes about high lease prices would go buy their own property, then turn around & lease it for $100/gun or whatever asanine prices they themselves paid 40 years ago. Funny how you never see people do this, they just complain. The old days are over, either deal with the current situation, or don't hunt, nobody else cares I assure you.

Look at what property used to cost & what it cost now. Why would leasing it NOT go up? Not to mention MILLIONS of new people in the state, raising demand. Not to mention, look at bow much everything ELSE cost.........

And I get what you're saying too, but you kind of made my point. It is a supply and demand game. Always has been. In some areas, the drivers are retirees. In some areas, it's farming costs and drought. In others, it's hunting. My buddy who lives in south Kansas...people aren't retiring around him. They're looking for hunting grounds, and doing so thanks to every show on the tube being shot in Kansas. They've done a great job convincing folks that there's a Booner behind every tree. He's been offered between $3 and $5 million for his 160 and 25 year old house a couple times by hunting clubs.

My opinions, that count for nothing:
1. If you lease, you are ALWAYS at the mercy of the landowner, AND, you are always at a disadvantage. As you should be.
2. The number one cause of sky rocketing land prices in Texas is HUNTING. There are other factors, but hunting is the driving force. Ask any realtor, they will tell you. The average cost for an acre of land in my neck of the woods has went up roughly 750% in the last 25 years. In 1990 you could buy land all day for $400 an acre, that same land goes for 3,000 or more now. Drive around central Texas and look at all the places that obviously have no cattle, or other livestock, on them.

My ranch is 6 miles from KS. Please baby Jesus send me an idiot that would pay between 18k -31k an acre.

You have any idea the amount of people hedging against the market via land? It's a bunch. We as hunters are a very small segemant of the land buyers.

You just made an outstanding case for the effectivness of hedging against the market with land.

BOBO, if some smuck offers you that kind of money and you don't sell, I will burn your truck!!

Make sure you keep a pronghorn caveat though

Market it to the operators when Oil prices shoot back up. Can be a hub for their KS/OK/NM/CO operations.

Are you kidding.... I wanted keystone!!!!!!!!!

Might get some Pony Express tie ins. We were approached on our place a cpl years ago by a FW based company. They meant business

Lmao. I spent my entire life working on bringing a family legacy back together, but I could reconsider my efforts and forge a new multi state diversity program

I'm not going to lie for that much I'd actually start a pronghorn sanctuary

I'd have you black hoodies made that had Tornado Warning with graphics of PH circling inside a fence.

Kewl, by that time I will need a job

Family legacy, for that kind of $, you could sure start off a new one!

You would also see those Iconic Images on the side of my citation latitude and 82' viking

In every state with an elk season!!!!

It sucks but I know how you feel I hunt on a place in Palo Pinto co that has been in the family for almost 100 years but now an ungrateful generation of the family has it and they are all trying to sell their pieces (the sorry POS's) fortunately they are all stupid city people and think they can get an insane amount of $ for it and with no mineral rights at that so we are going about business as usual hoping and praying that no idiot is dumb enough to buy it and since it's not good land for horse people I doubt anyone will be dumb enough.

I also am heir to a 300+ acre ranch on the other side of the family that has been in my dads side of the family since 1873 and my dad is the ungrateful generation ruining the ranch ,he has a rock company mining out there destroying the middle of the place and has just recently sold 50 acres so the hunting opportunities are limited to the back side but several neighbors have an ingress regress through us so there is way too much traffic there is nothing private about our private property. A couple of years ago I had the place going great I had big bucks and lots of turkey but now with the mining, neighbors, & my dads bar trash friends things went to hell really fast and since he has sold part of it to moronic city people who have no idea how to live in the country and don't belong here it's really bad.

I see a a lot of what it cost to buy a tractor now days and what land cost too. HaHa I know that tractors and land prices are over rated, always have been. I was a land man or an oilfield company, trust me I know all about greed.. Unless of course you buy some good ol river bottom land that is better suited for hunters. As for the NM family land, it has been under contract with some outfit way before a I came along. Trust me there has been a few ask to hunt it and the same few have been turned down. Its all about the contract/money, no love for family, and don't have a clue about how much I or the next guy wants to hunt out there. You would have to be a person that doesn't give two craps about hunting to turn everybody away. Oh ya I have money and dont expect it to be free, but If Im married into the family like the next guy should I have to beg and throw money at people just to hunt. I take people hunting all the time for free, because I don't cry about what this that or the other cost to maintain. Its just hunting I personally will never tell a friend that wants to hunt with me well, That tractor cost 500k, we had a drought last year, huntin should always be a money deal, so that will be x amount of money. That's just plain old sad. It sounds like some winey land owners and I know a few need to let someone else hold their hand and maintain the land for them for free, because when they bought it they thought every thing was going to a breeze. People ,I grew up on farms and I never had anybody say anything about no you cant hunt because that tractor cost too much money or we had a drought. It was just about hunting and not about the chance to take advantage of someone. This being said Im assuming that some may think that I expect everything for free and will wine and cry because I cant hunt. I will never beg a money hungry land owner to hunt. I will move on to the next huntin spot. I have places to hunt and they are free. If I feel the need to pay for a lease that is not over priced I will, but as of right now Im just going with the good ol friendly way. Its been workin for like hmmm? 40 years. Oh ya I do help out now and then around the property, because I like it.

19k acres means 20-40k a year just in fence upkeep.

I don't lease my ranch out, But I understand why some do. Hindsight I guess I'm greedy because I have no trespassing signs.

Nothing worse then someone EXPECTING someone else to donate thier livelihood so you can have a free hunt.

You should get an invite because you married into a family...LMAO

You would be surprised at the people that will let me hunt for free and wont let me pay them. They don't want the hole you've gave me money to hunt now and you think you own the place thing going on. I tread lightly, so much so you may not ever even know I was there. I don't use ATVs, feeders, stands, ect. A lot of people don't want that mess on their property. I had one old man tell me all his hogs disappeared and didn't know why. I told him that I killed them. He had been bouncing his head off the top of the cab of his tractor from running over the rooting. He also broke a ball joint in some rooting. He had do disc the grass fields because the hogs over ran it. Guess what not anymore. Hey but I guess free pest control is not doing anybody any good, because the disc in your back, tractor parts, and diesel fuel for leveling the surface are free. Hunters, ranchers, farmers, and just plain ol land owners can all work hand and hand together without the money. Before I go out to that same property during daytime hours I call before hand and make sure its all good to come out and I call early to see if he needs help around the farm. Ive fixed his trucks, tractors, fences, caught cows, hauled cows to the sell or other properties and done so much more without asking for a dime. He has offered to pay and I just say you don't owe me a thing. Now see we have established a friendly relationship without money, but you do have be a friendly person and never try to run the show. What do they call that a gentleman?

Your exchanging work for hunting... That's still paying for hunting, just not a cash exchange.

I own a car so people should expect to loan it to them all the time?

You wana borrow my car? ok bring it back with some gas in it. When times get at what may seem at their worst, being a land barren and that paper stuff we all call money will be worthless. Our survival skills and some left over G+A will be all that we have.

So your a "land barren" if you own land but don't want to barter your hunting for very little or charge very little or nothing to hunt it?

If I own land and fail to establish a friendly relationship with you without money being involved or trying to run the show than I would not qualify as a gentleman?

When times get tough I can assure you that landowners like me and others like me will have plenty of G&A and survival skills to continue to own my land and decide who hunt's it and what they will have to pay me to do so. If money is worthless it will be whatever I decide I want.