CAN YOU MANAGE 325 ACRES

This is a debate between myself and a guy on our lease. We have a lease in Springtown, TX. One of the borders of the lease is a main road. We have gas line guys that drive in and out of the lease 4-5 times a week. We have people that drive their motorcycles and horses on the property. They aren't supposed to, but we aren't there to monitor it. People shoot guns for recreation all around this place. We haven't caught them, but are almost certain that a few of the neighbors shoot pigs and deer off the place. I have been on this place for 4 yrs and have 3 cameras set up. Each year I see about 15-25 different bucks on my cameras. During the rut i see them once or twice then never again. Not one year do i recall seeing a deer from the previous year. i study my pics and look for similarities. in the last 4 years only 3 deer have been taken with horns outside the ears. HERES THE ISSUE. Last week i shot the biggest deer of my life. Not a monster but it was 4.5 yr old 8 pt that scored 110. Now another guy is pissed because i plan on letting my little girl shoot her first buck that is a 2.5 yr old crab claw 9pt. There is no rule on the lease saying that she can't. But he's pissed because he thinks we should leave this deer for next year. this is his 2nd year on the lease. I'D LIKE A LITTLE FEEDBACK ON THIS PLEASE.

IMO you shouldn't shoot the deer for the fact that it is a 2.5 year old 9 point!

I would think the only way you could manage that small of property would be only if your neighbors were managing as well. Sounds like most your deer are passing through for the most part.

If you shoot the buck because you are afraid someone else might shoot him you just became "that" person.

Let em walk.

That's my thoughts exactly. The deer i shot has not been on any of our cameras. Theres a creek that borders the property and they run that creek. I understand the 9 is a young buck, but for a 13 yr old girls first buck, it will be a monster. Our neighbors are not "management" friendly either. This place is 5 min from downtown Springtown. I had an 8pt on camera for 3 weeks, and a buddy of mine's little girl shot it last Saturday. They hunt over 3 miles away. this deer is so distinct there's no mistaken it's the same deer.

For my kids or grandkids all management is out the window. If they want to shoot a deer, they can shoot the deer.

Unless your neighbors are all on a management program, all kinds of things can happen. On 325 acres managing the deer population is like herding cats, it won't happen.

Even saying that I don't believe you can manage that without the help of neighbors, I still would not shot a 2.5 yo buck. This could be a good opportunity to teach her what to shoot well as patience. ..just my .02

If your granddaughter asked to shoot, you wouldn't say no.

Unless you are hunting for free or the lease is dirt cheap, I wouldn't waste a lot of time and resources managing this place. You don't have to have an "ideal" situation when attempting to manage a property, but in this instance, it sounds like you are still trying to bat with three strikes against you and the umpire is telling you to go back to the dugout.

Well i can tell you i have the same problem, i have let deer go for YEARS just to see them be shot the next hunt by someone else. it has happened to me for a longgg time and its pretty annoying. so i would say let the girl shoot the deer. its a good deer. you are not on a game ranch. you are hunting free roaming animals, you could see one deer one day and never see it again. let her shoot the buck, if its a nice buck.

I'm like this also... I actually got a seperate lease that I could take the kids and not worry about what we shoot. I'm all for management, but to a certain degree, it's absolutely out of control....

we wonder why kids don't like to hunt, then hear stories about them not being able to shoot a deer they'd be perfectly hapy with.

I like the way you think.

First, congratulations on your 4.5 8!

Second, it sounds to me like you and your fellow hunters need to get on the same page about what your goals/plans are, or if you are just there to harvest meat. Yeah, it's gonna be fairly hard to manage 325 acres, but if you aren't part of the solution, well...

What does the lease say about number of hunters, number of bucks/deer they get to harvest, etc? I assume your daughter is not a paying member of the lease so how does that factor in? Do the other hunters have kids and are they shooting?

It would be though I'm sure and can't honestly say I wouldn't let her. If she pouted her lips and batted her eyes at me I'd probably cave in.....

I dont have kids but I would probably have them start with a doe or smaller buck. My second deer was a 10 and I am still trying to top him, but I'm not in the situation. Sounds like a catch 22. My .02

best you can do is try your best to let them grow old.... let them get to 4yrs old at least.. yeah you may pass a nice 3yr old here and there and he could very well get shot the next day but there will be the ones that make it through and that's the chance you take. I do it on 40 acres.. you sure can

The years i have been on this lease it has been mainly to harvest meat. If we happen to see a big deer that was just a bonus. We have never had any formal rules. But we all knew that if we shot a big deer then one of the kids saw one, it was ok to do that. this guy was on the lease last year when it was like that. This year we cut the lease from 5 hunters to 3. I told him at the beggining of the season that i would bring my nephew out and let him shoot a doe off my tags and that he wouldn't shoot a big buck. that's the ONLY discussion. I have 2 boys that could care less about hunting. it truly breaks my heart. But the fact that my daughter hunts is awesome. it's a legacy i want to pass down to her. I just wanted some feedback if i'd be a totally in the wrong if i let her shoot the deer. i appredciate it.

Agreed especially with all you said in the OP as far as the goings on around you. Management wise you are fighting a loosing battle. Your buddy is just venting because you shot a good buck. I say let your kid shoot any legal deer they want.

ALL OF THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED WHEN YOU GOT ON THE LEASE.

Kids always get a pass for their first imo... them loving the sport is more important

It really depends on how big the places are around you .....like our place it's only 250 acr but the place on the east is a 6000+ acr and north is 700 acr south is a small 90 acr and west is all HF so we can pass on the smaller ones or even a good ten like i posted the other day and still see them all year because the other hunters dont shoot the first thing they see .
On letting the kids shoot why not wait to see if there is one that is messed up

X2

jmo

You can manage a place that small.

And kids should be able to shoot what they want.

This ^^^^^^^^

let her shoot it!

Boom for her first deer. You keep taking a young kid to the blind, make them be still an quiet, and they hunt numerous times and dont get to shoot they will get bored and probably lose interest in this day and time. Let her shoot anything within the lease rules for her first and maybe second deer, then start laying groundwork for management and whatnot. That being said, as others have said, your place is almost impossible to manage with all the traffic, the amount of hunters you have, unwanted guests, and if it is surrounded by small tracts.

I probably would have passed on the 8 and let your daughter shoot whatever. Easier to say that after the fact.

I manage 348 acres and do a fine job in my own opinion. I have noticed an increase in larger bucks based on the management techniques that i have instilled over the past few years. I dont shoot 2.5 year old nine points for starters. Keeping an eye on everything can be quite a hassle and worrisome at times. However, I have made an effort to meet my neighbors and express my concerns for the management of the area. Some agree and some would rather have me take a hike. Regardless, them meeting all 6' 4" 235 pounds of me is important so that in case anyone ever gets a bad idea. Im hoping the thought of tangling with my ugly mug would deter them. All in all, neighbors are key. Good or Bad, you gotta mange around em.

And children definately get a pass on first couple of deer.

Not a lease, its my own land but the neighbors shoot anything, tried to talk to them about it but that did nothing.

If I understood you correctly you are allowing your nephew to shoot your does. Would this be a buck that would be from your bag limit for the lease or an additional one? I'm all for the kids but if I were on the lease it would have to come from my bag limit for the lease not an extra one. I would give up shooting one for me so to speak.

Let her shoot the buck!

Do you give them ice cream and candy for breakfast if they ask for it?

If your lease partner thinks it should walk, I would let it walk and find your daughter an older buck.

It's just a deer. Kill it and eat it. That's what they were put there for.

Tired of this grow em up and get some age on em crap. Let that little girl shoot what she wants as long as its legal! If your partner dont like it then tuff! You will be that little girls hero and have a great hunting partner to boot! Trust me when i say u cant put a price on that.

that's my thinking exactly. thank you

Yes.

I believe the title to the thread is "Can you manage 325 acres" so to answer his question NO if he is going to shoot a 2.5 year old 9pt buck.

I personally wouldn't let her shoot. I lead by example and my kids are going to learn to hunt just like dad. If they wanna kill something and not worry about age, well a doe it is. I think our youth needs to learn the values of management but never face scrutiny about mistakes. I think most parents get caught up in the enjoyment of seeing a kid kill a animal and that's why most throw management out the window. To me they are the future and deer are bigger than ever today because of the effort us hunters make and that needs to be passed on, not its got horns, kill it.

Great point!!

While basically true, that is not really the answer to the question. The answer is a yes or no, simply put. He would only shoot the 2.5 yr 9pt if he thought he could not manage the place. Presumably, if he could manage it, he would not shoot it. The question really has little to do with the 2.5 year old 9 pt. He is wondering if it is worth letting the 9 pt pass or not.

Deer management is a personal decision, nothing more nothing less. No right or wrong answer or ideology.


My old ranch we consitantly took 150-200+" deer, and they still do.

Kids could shoot what ever they wanted to.


Values of management is our journey into growing bigger deer. Kids hunt to hunt, don't down grade/degrade their hunting experience with or self imposed ambitions

If a 2.5 year old nine pts is the only buck you have on a half section, a) your not hunting hard enough or hunting it in the wrong way or b) need a new place.

To me it's less about the bucks age/size than it is about whether he has killed his limit of bucks on the lease for the year. I know if a hunter on our lease killed an extra one and I didn't see one to kill I wouldn't be happy about it. It's not just his piece of ground to hunt and there are others on the lease that have a stake in this too.

You asked for opinions, so I will post mine. No coolaid and against the "grain"

Your intro is " CAN I MANAGE 325 ACRES", But so far you have only made a case of negatives, I submit to strengthen your case. I am surprised after all the negatives with the property, that you continue to lease it?

I also think it depends on what the new guy was led to believe about the "unspoken" lease rules, was he told you had a "management goal"? After all, new or not, like it or not, he is a paying member of the lease. I suspect by his reaction, that he is under the impression you intend to manage the place. (As am I reading your post topic)

I think it would have been easier to have said in the beginning, "We 3 members intend ,or can, bring our kids to harvest an animal" . That way no surprises to the others when you throw in the towel on the management idea.

Let her shoot it. What's the chances of y'all seeing that deer after this year? Slim to none.

Can you manage a 325 acre place LF? No.

Really the only management you can do on the acreage is select harvesting older bucks and feed the ever living mess out of them. Maybe shoot a few does when they take over feeders.

Yes you can, is it as effective as larger section, no but none the less you can still be a core area

X 2.

We are having this same debate on our land this year. Makes it not so much fun

Can you manage it? Probably if your neighbors are on board. Would I let her shoot it, without a doubt. Horns are great bragging rights but that is probably not a consideration of hers.

^^^ Then why not just let her shoot a doe or spike.

Why not let her shoot whatever she wants?

I disagree, unless you have complete control over what your neighbors within about a mile of you in all directions do. Years ago before our place was HFed we had a neighbor who had 3 sons and they shot every Buck deer they saw. They said that shooting all the Bucks would draw neighboring bucks from all around to breed their does. Worked pretty good, that was the main reason we HFed.

It sounds like genetics aren't that great anyway. If you were truly into management you would pick a different deer. At the same time I would let her shoot it. Unsure of the buck reg's in that county but I don't think you can manage a 300 place with one buck tag.

My son and nephew are 9 yrs old and we're just starting to let them pull the trigger on deer. The deal my brother-in-law and I made is that we won't let them shoot any deer that we wouldn't shoot ourselves. You are either going to manage the deer or you aren't. The boys need to start early understanding that hunting isn't just killing. It is about choosing the right deer in the right situation and then making the kill. Your daughter has her whole life to kill deer. Take the opportunity to show her deer and tell her why each one is or isn't on the hit list. My 9 year old is impatient, but he's getting to see a bunch of deer and learning why this is or isn't a deer we want to kill.

NO.

MELACKEY its great u take ur kids hunting but making the decision for them on what deer they are going to shoot and what makes u happy defeats the purpose of hunting with the kids. My daughter shot her first deer years ago just before AR rules took effect and it was a small 4pt. She had me put the rack on the wall in her room and still talks about it every year. Dont take that kind of enthusiasm away from em just because its not what YOU think they should kill. AR killed it for my daughter dont let that happen to your kids.

Kids shoot free
- Explain what you're doing and why so she knows as she grows ... but let her shoot.

Adults
- don't shoot if properly managed or if access properly control
- shoot if unmanaged and out of control

Long Term
- you've got to get the property under control for a) safety, b) legality c) hunt d) habitat
- you'll have to work with pipeline people (memo copied to game warden will scare the top brass into taking action)
- you'll need to convince your neighbors
- 2,000 acres cooperatively managed is a good starting goal

We are stewards of God's creation (not environmentalists).
That puts us in a higher position of responsibility and authority.

God Bless America and our Hunting

I have a 360 acre tract that has "if it moves, shoot it" hunters on two sides. I don't even try to manage it.

I gained access to a 288 tract in 2010 and ran camera surveys on it that fall. The place was mostly surrounded by national forest which can be worse than a day hunt place. 4-5bucks (only 1 not a yearling) on camera total & a few does was all I could find. There had been 5 families of ppl on the place filling tags that got the boot so I figured the place was over pressured & shot up. As of now, the place has yet to be hunted but there are a few bucks that will get you're attention that have been allowed to get some age on them. What happens next is important, I can choose to shoot the place up and head back toward step one, or I can try to single out those special older deer and only try to kill them. It's not going to result in me filling a tag every yr, but it can allow me to bring in a kid during the late youth and let them shoot something that I don't like being there.

You can make a difference with any amount of land.

At least for there first couple deer , now that my girls are teens, they're in competition to shoot the biggest.lol.
You can manage it. Some may get shot by neighbors but do your part and feed yr around also. When you let the little deer walk you'd be surprised what comes out after them sometimes.

Yes you can manage it, yes it's harder... But if you shoot them you will NEVER have bigns. If your shooting 2.5 year olds then there may be a reason you ARNT seeing repeats... If you have all this traffic on the place I would focus on catching trespassers who are poaching. If your seeing 15-25 bucks on 300 acres ur in a high deer density area. Some are gonna slip through neighbors if you wait and shoot only mature deer

I guess if it makes you feel good then do it.

Too many variables going on at your place and none of them are on the same page when it comes to management.

Having said that, let your daughter shoot the 9. She'll be the happiest kid on the planet and hooked on hunting for life. When she hits 16, you'll be thanking me on this one!!

If you are wanting to see mature/bigger deer, get everyone on your place on board. If that doesnt work, find a new lease that caters to your idea of what management should be.

In the future, get your daughter to help you fill feeders, check cameras, whatever. That way, no matter what she shoots, SHE earned it!

My $.02.

I’m all for kids hunting and have two young boys that hunt … But sorry it's not all about you and your daughter when you have two other paid hunters on your lease. You need to take everyone into consideration when you’re hunting on a lease with other paid hunters. Now with that said if you can get the other paid hunters on board with her shooting this buck than by all means let her take it.
You said that she hunts with you and that's great but letting her kill that 2.5 old 9 isn’t going to make her want to hunt even more. IMO... That she could shoot a doe this season and all would be happy including her.
After this season purchase her a spot on your lease for next year’s deer season. This way she can kill whatever legal buck she wants and everyone will be happy.

For those that say it can't be done, what happens when does are way over populated and you get a few people in there to clean up on them. You know what happens? Management, that's what.

Let her shoot that deer! She is interested in hunting and that is awesome!

Just remember, if your daughter gets to shoot a 2.5 year old 9 point, then everyone else's kids get to do the same. Is it really in the best interest of the place to take that deer out? If you shoot them, they are just as dead as if a neighbor shoots them. If you let one buck go and it lives to maturity, then you have bettered your herd and hunting. So yes, a 325 acre piece of land can be managed. Is it hunting or killing that you are after?

What is hunting without killing? Watching?

Managing boolits

Killing is the possible end result of hunting and the possibility is always there. Killing does not always have to occur for my hunt to be successful. My perfect deer season is to see a big buck on camera or in person at the beginning of the season. During the season I see him enough to know that he is still there. Perfect ending is that I kill him the last day of the season. I hunted the entire season and was successful at the end. If I do not kill a deer, there is enough for me just being involved in the hunt to keep coming back. Some people need the kill part more. I am just not one of those people. To each their own. Just my opinion.

If you see the deer hour after often during the season, why didn't you kill it? I don't see the point in waiting if the one I want is there. You hunt to kill. You may be after just one deer but in the end, your goal is to kill. No reason to sugar coat it. This is not the Texas watching forum.

I would try, but not all encounters I have with deer end up with a shot opportunity and it is awful hard to kill a picture. Sometimes I get fleeting glimpses of deer without a shot opportunity. Not all of us are as good at killing or hunting as you are. Killing might represent the end result of a successful hunt to you, but I do not have to kill anything to have a successful hunt. WHen I was young, numbers of kills meant something. Now quality of experience is what means something to me. If you have to argue about it, then you don't get it, so don't even try. As I said, "To each their own."

Killing is the easiest part of the equation. Tying a deer to a stump is the hardest.

I prefer freestyle. I have always been up for a challenge.

At what point did I say it was easy? That's right I never did. Never said numbers matter either did I. Let's see if I can simplify it. If you don't plan on picking up your gun or bow at some point your not hunting, your watching. I'm usually after a specific buck. Every time I go out my intent is to kill it. I usually pass on several deer because they are not what I'm hunting. I'm usually pretty happy to just watch deer. However I'm not going to say that when I'm hunting my goal is not to kill even if I don't get a shot at my target. My goal was still to kill my target.

I don't see "easy" mentioned by me either, but maybe I missed it. Numbers were my deal with no mention of you. I usually hunt a specific buck also and I will kill him when the opportunity presents itself. My prefect hunt would end on the last day of the season. Not many perfect of anything out there. I don't really see where we are that much different. Like I said, "To each their own."

Its much easier in a high fence

I see you've never shot one that's been tied to a stump.

Not since the game warden fined me.

Sorry the easy part wasn't you. I got you and rifleman mixed up. I think I miss read your post earlier. I think the difference is you're happy not getting your deer. I'm not happy about it and the next year I will hunt harder or smarter. Dont get me wrong i still enjoy it.A year without deer jerky is a long year.

Back to topic I believe you can manage 300 acres. I only have 140 but it still holds some deer. Most are passing through but will pass through the next year too. My place has two main racks. One set has brow tines and is narrower. The other is wide and no brow tines. I could start being selective for either and change the genetic makeup but I usually just go after whatever is mature and catches my eye. Its s one buck county so I would have to get neighbors involved or let others hunt on my place.

140 acres, you are not managing the deer herd, you are only shooting what you want. Feeding them all, and taking what fits your "requirements" of a good deer is not game management. Basically you are shooting the "visitors" that you want.

first yr











last yr











age classes are doing what they need to be doing.

WHen I get a chance to go deer hunting I am happy. The only real time I am unhappy is right after deer season has ended.

Management is another thing that is in the eyes of the manager. If a person owns 20,000 acres but does not take care of the deer, he is not making it the best it can be and the place is not managed. On the other hand, if another person plants food plots, takes out excessive does, passes on some of the younger bucks and makes plans for the future and carries through with most of them, the place is being managed to the best of his ability, even if it is only 140 acres.

That is mostly land management not deer management, you are improving the habitat, which helps the deer herd in general.

So your saying I could shoot anything and make no difference at all. Hmmmm does that mean I can be that neighbor and have no effect? Maybe I should day lease and hope my place borders yours.

Yes you can-especially if you have good bedding/core areas. My strategy is just like RM's and we have similar results.

As for kids, the first deer is whatever makes them excited. I don't care what it is. No management plan is worth disappointing a kid and "teaching" them your expectations is...well...unrealistic IMO. (I'm holding back here.)

We can learn a little and shape expectations little by little as they get older/hunt more.

No day leases around my place, they are owned by party people, they haven't a clue what they are doing. During the year the deer live on their places eating from their feeders, after the party starts in October they move over to our place.

Ya'll figure it out. I am going deer hunting.

Good luck. We went early this morning out south of Merkel. We saw a couple of does, and a spike, then headed in for coffee.

Thanks.
We hunt just west of Big Lake in Reagan County.

Very nice, noticeable difference

Disappointing a kid? How many times was that kid 'disappointed' when he was too young to be the shooter and had to watch you slay a deer he would have been thrilled with? Don't give me that BS. It's harder on the kid to tell him no for the first time on his second deer than it is to train him correctly from the get-go.

If my grandson or granddaughter wanted to shoot one of the cows on our place, I would get on the phone to the guy that leases our grazing rights and ask him what it would cost. Then I would tell a check is in the mail.

Sure would like to see the look on the butcher's face when we pull up with a cow.

One thing I learned as a grandpa, I can do damn near anything I want as long as it is legal. I don't have to answer to anyone at anytime.

If the kid goes all the time and never gets to shoot, there is a good chance they will get tired of it. I believe they need a taste so they know they can be successful. I don't have kids but have been around them hunting. Ones that kill a monster for a first deer don't seem to have interest in hunting a place unless it has very large deer. J have seen them kill a doe for their first deer and be happy just to get to go hunting. This is from limited experience. Start small and work your way up and you'll have more respect for whatever you do.

Whatever there trophy-man. IMO you have lost all perspective-if you ever had it.

I think you are missing perspective, not me. For you it's all about the kid getting the kill; for me it's all about the kid getting the lesson that hunting is not about yanking the trigger on anything that moves.

You tell your 7 year old he can't shoot that doe/small buck.

I'll tell mine he can.

See which one is smiling. That,sir,is what life's all about. Not deer management.

I used to be for herd management, but in the last few years I have watched the "holier" than thou attitude spit out their garbage enough to realize that they don't "enjoy" hunting, they enjoy shooting trophies. Sad, but it is their life to "enjoy" as the see fit.

I was raised on the notion that you hunted through your kids once they were old enough to go....then you got that privilege back when they were "grown".

This poor old horse is beat to death. Let your kids shoot something. You are not doing them any favor by making them wait for a 160" deer.

The problem is that too many people have become obobsesse with only shooting that trophy buck, myself included, and we forget about having fun and enjoying God's creations. I'll bet that the majority of all of you , like me, were raised up going hunting with our dads and or families and had so much fun just enjoying getting to go and just hoped we'd get a chance to shoot anything that was legal to shoot. Everything has gotten so much into management and trophies to the point that it's not as fun anymore. If it's legal and you want to shoot it then shoot it, that is your right and you paid your money and TPWD says you can. Nobody has the right to judge you as long as you do it legally.

But if you want to be judged post the picture on here. Someone will be along shortly to tell you why you shouldn't have shot it.

If someone wants their kid to hold out for a mature deer, that's their prerogative. At some point, and especially on my land, we will do the same.

But when they are starting out, and I decide that they can shoot what they want, and they are excited to shoot any deer, then that's what we will do, since it's OUR prerogative. And nobody will tell us different.

It is rare I read 5 pages of posts on this subject because it is the same thing over and over again. I am a sit in the back and read person and not so much a post person. I get just as excited about seeing a big rack as the next guy but I have to say I am really happy to see so many people on here backing take what you want within the law. I think this is the most I have ever seen voice their opinion since it is usually a beat down from the high and mighty hunters. My major is biology and I practice conservation. Managment I believe in but I don't let it take the fun out of it for me. For others I understand and respect that is the fun and I don't post negative things when they post pictures and mention they hunted all season for it. I do have to say something about telling your kid no they cant shoot it and it is better to teach them correct from the get go. You tell your kid no too many times and he or she will like hunting as much as they like school in the 6th grade...... not at all!!!! Good luck with that....

i am on 45 acres with my largest neighbor being 60, there are 5 feeders within 20 yards of my fences, i've had cameras running on it it for 3 years and have 3 years wrth of pics for a few of them and 2 years worth of seveal more. if the terrain is good and the neighbors are even a little bit on board 300 acres can be managed, if its in west texas, probably not.

There's bound to be some crappy ratchet head buck you can let your precious little angel shoot. I agree you need to let your kid have fun and shoot an animal. But, shooting a 2.5 YO buck with promise is just stupid.

And, it's called hunting, not killing. Hunting is about a whole lot more than just pulling the trigger. It's about being in and appreciating nature, and watching your work pay off, and patience. If you let her drop the hammer on a buck like that just because she wants to, what are you teaching her.

And, last thing before I get off my soap box. All this talk about making your little dumplings "smile" is absolutely pathetic. My son would "smile" if I let him eat Snickers bars for breakfast, but I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good for him and it's not the right thing to do. Same goes for killing deer that shouldn't be killed.

Letting a kid shoot a buck with potential is stupid? Why? Because someone could shoot him when he's bigger?

What does more for hunting? Kids shooting deer, or letting deer get big?

The only thing stupid is criticizing people for how they introduce kids into hunting.

I agree, we don't have the right to judge or criticize any one that does something that is LEGAL. If it was illegal the you deserve criticism

It's legal to do a lot of things that aren't smart.

booom

There's some middle ground to be found in the situation. A kid can sit, watch and be taught whether there's even a rifle in the stand or not. I've had kids go hunting with me that were told straight up that I wouldn't let them pull the trigger no matter what walked out. They were excited to see deer and to put away beef jerky & blue berry muffins. It all depends on the kid.

agreed, i was always just happy to SEE deer when i hunted as a kid. we hunted in canton for a year and never saw a deer and we also hunted the hill country and saw 10 deer every sit but i never really was chomping at the bit to kill something, i'm still not unless it is gonna go on the wall. i just like the sittin and the watchin and hope my boys grow up with a similar philosophy.

now, when my oldest is ready to go in another year or two i will be very liberal about what he gets to shoot and just hope that a 2.5yo isnt what he picks

I realize that. I have no problem telling a kid no. My point is that it's up to the two hunting, not anyone else.

If you want your kids to shoot the deer on your lease then that means you don't shoot the deer. He already filled his buck tag. That means what he is allowed has been taken. Unless it's unlike any lease I've been on that would be considered an "extra" deer from his allowed quota and that is the real issue. Buck size doesn't even matter as long as it's legal.