What would YOU do?

You own 300 acres. You work hard throughout the year and invest what you can to try and better the deer herd that occupies your land and the land around yours. You have leasers all around you and know that they take deer each year that probably shouldn't be taken. Now their not shooting every deer, does and smaller spikes, but anything that looks like a "shooter" (2 1/2 small basket six, maybe eight pointer) for the area is more than likely a target buck that is going to get shot.

Feeding protein is an option, and buying the good stuff is something to consider, but you wouldn't feel comfortable feeding it all year long and having someone else reap the benefits. Genetics on the land have decreased over the past decade (for the previous reason mentioned) and over all buck quality falls into that category.

We do as much as we can with what we have. Corn is fed year around and water is spread throughout the property. We've fed protein in the past, but with free ranging animals and not a consistent tracking method, we see a lot of bucks once and then never again. Cameras are placed up and we have the same deer ( does and small spikes) coming to the same locations, but nothing more and it varies year after year. I'm at a point where I just want to throw up a game fence and move forward with what I love. I've also thought about leaving to a lease where game management is mandatory because it takes a lot of skill, composure and heart to truly pass up on a deer an ordinary hunter wouldn't. I just don't want to leave the place I love and have hunted on all my life, like I gave up on it.. Money spent on leasing could be better spent here.

What would your options be? What are some things that you guys would consider that I haven't touched. Advice is very much appreciated.

I'd not add to the problem of shooting out the area and keep rolling the dice.

A deer hasn't been taken off the land in 3 years. Buck in 5..

You want my honest opinion, yes I would toss up a HF and start a small breeding heard of Whitetail and just get the enjoyment out of it seeing what you have helped come to life and grow to be what it becomes at 5 years old etc. Or even toss in some exotics and have something new and cool to watch feed and see from time to time but thats just me. I get just as much enjoyment going to our HF place and seeing the animals grow and getting pics from when the drop there horns till the rub out as I do hunting them at times.

I would put up the high fence too. Your neighbors are leaving no choice and they are probably not putting in a quarter of the time and money you are to kill all the deer. Good luck

have u tried talking to the neighbors and seeing if they will get on board with a management program?

As BBD84 stated I'd throw up a fence. To me it sounds like regardless of what you do in talking to your neighbors they will do what they want. Throw up a fence and start small. Buy a few young breeder bucks and some does. then start with a few exotics when money allows. During years when you don't have the opportunity to take a whitetail you will have exotics there to take for meat. Growing your own trophy animals from your own blood sweat and tears is truly a magical feeling. If you do put up a fence you will be casted out of the "true hunter" club on here and more than likely be put on the "witch hunt" list though

HF for the win!

+1. Inviting your neighbors over some evening for steaks and brain-storming would be a lot cheaper than building a high fence. You may find that everyone would be on board for hiring a biologist to put together a management plan for your co-op.

If your neighbors decide that they're not interested in a co-operative program, you can always fall back on the HF solution.

why does it sounds like that to you, as far as we know he has never met them. they may feel like you are acting the same way you think they are acting, get with them and share ideas and you mightbe able to work it all out.

the county wildlife biologist will meet with you and look at your land with you for free, just call them and they can get you some forms to fill out.

High Fence

^^^^^ This. If they do not want to continue with a coop then you are going to have to make some decisions. Sell the land or invest in a the dreaded HF.
What county are you in? Sounds like it is not an AR county.

Very interesting with no harvest. Some plans that work for others don't work for everyone it seems.....

With 300 acres and everything on it that the deer will need, you should be able to hold a small herd on it. If you didn't hunt it all the time (pressure) the deer should start to grow again. You could take the money that you would have spent on a high fence and buy another property. Then, you could hunt each one every other year.

Btw, if you haven't harvested a deer in 3 years and buck in 5, I'm inclined to think the property doesn't have everything the deer NEED.

IMO, high fence on 300 acres may not be the best way to go...Personally, I would want at least a section, 640 acres to even consider throwing up a high fence..Just my opinion..

HF the sides that you are concerned with and leave the least problematic side open if possible.

or take the money u save from the HF and invest in food plots and habitat enhancement, make a large sanctuary that you NEVER enter, as large as possible and hunt the edges. give the deer what they need so they dont have to leave and pressure them as little as possible.

I agree with jshouse and trying to talk with the neighbors about a co-op.

Works for everyone, some deer always have a way of slipping through the cracks. How old was no show again?

ARs in place to keep No Show alive to an older age. With a county wide Coop in place since 1993. No history of him in the past to know if he was legal buck ever in the past either or ever been seen here till this year. There is also a lot less hunting pressure around me than the OP. A lot less which is a huge differnce with none to my west(800+ acres of semi-open cattle pasture) and very little if any to my south(450 acres with 1900 acres joining). OP does not seem to be in an area with ARs in place either. You can never say everyone till you see his place or see others that have the same problems. Today more folks are management minded than ever before and more mature exist than ever before but there are still pockets that exist like the one in the OP. We do not know what size his neighbors are and how many ranches join his either. We only know what he has given us so far.

The whole problem with the "talk to your neighbors" approach is that even if what you say sounds good to them, if they're leasing, the timeframe for results is short. Nobody wants to pay a couple thousand bucks and not shoot anything.

So while they may agree with you and promise to try better management practices, I wouldn't count on more than a year of them not shooting. Better hope that herd shows improvement quickly.

they dont have to stop shooting everything, just be more selective about what they shoot. and if one group leaves after one year, talk to the new group. i am not saying this will work, its just an option before dropping thousands on a fence.

I agree it's a good place to start, and I'd definitely try that before throwing up a HF.

Just wouldn't be surprised if the issue persists, even if everybody agrees to manage better.

We are actually in a very similar situation to you, except it's 380 acres, not 300. We are part of the local WMA, but several of the neighbors aren't.

I agree with above. Step 1 is to talk to your neighbors and see if you can agree with a management plan. If you can get folks on board, forming a WMA thru TPWD is a great idea as it keeps everyone accountable (via jawbones and harvest records) and includes multiple surveys done by your local biologists.



I don't fully agree with you here. I know many less-ees who are willing to get into it for the long term if the owner is on board. Many folks realize that it takes more than a year to turn a place around. However, there are also the type who are like what you describe, and just want to pull the trigger. In that case, time to evaluate your other options.

We just do not have enough details to say if it will work or not. To much left to WAG on our part. I am for trying all other options before the fence.

And by the way, do you have any cams up in non-feeder locations like travel routes, creeks, transitions, etc? Our place has high pressure from the neighbors and we never get pics of mature bucks at feeders. But we get several by placing them in other spots as the deer pass. Those mature bucks got that way by being smart, and part of that is avoiding feeders. Might be worth a try, I'm betting you have a couple big boys around.

Not saying it is the case here, but I think there are a lot of people that blame the neighbors for their lack of deer on their smaller property, when the problem might be the way that the smaller property is hunted, accessed, etc. Just always easier to blame the neighbor

Guess a HF would solve the problem no matter what side of the fence it is, but I would look at what I am doing first and see if there is a reason why I haven't been able to take a deer in 3 years and a buck in 5 before I went ahead and threw up a HF.

I can say everyone...no deer being seen, no bucks, shooting more isn't going to help. You forget deer season runs 24/7/365 in my hood.

Southern Duval.. Selling the land isn't an option because it is family land.. My father and myself are the only ones hunting it. A lot of history on it.. I'm willing to talk to the neighbors, but being that they are leasers, I assume that they wouldn't be into the plan because they are paying x amount of money for them not to shoot something..

Is the ranch in one of the older sub-divided ranches? What is your water situation like?

You need to read the post below yours. You think your area is bad about poaching you have never been to his world. Less rain, less deer to start with and then poaching is a way of life in that county. Seeing a deer track would be a blessing for some ranches. He already stated they did not kill a doe for 3 yrs and any bucks for 5 yrs with no change. They do not live on the place it appears so it is not being hunted everyday. Well at least by them. But we still do not know enough about to say my way will work or won't.

Seeing deer isn't the problem. I see a good amount of deer when I hunt. Bucks that are mature and have developed into something worth shooting is the problem.. Nothing will get pass 2 years around there is they have something on top of their head..

It would be less expensive to talk to the surrounding LO's and lease the neighboring properties out from under the current lessees than to build a HF.
Then you have the option of hunting them yourself or finding hunters that will follow your program and recoup the money spent leasing the properties.

My knee jerk reaction is stop worrying about what the neighbors do and make your place the most attractive to the deer in your area.

I like this^^^

Like Stx said without all the info who really knows.

Our place is 320+/- our neighbors seem to not be too bad at curent, 1/2 hunt 1/2 dont. In all of our approx 320 acres we have a HUGE amount of space that is never disturbed. We dont ride 4 wheelers, we dont let kids run around with 22's and do as kids will do, we dont dove hunt etc. We go into the place to shred roads do fallow disking plant food plots fill feeders and sit in the blind and that is pretty much about it. Even though the place isnt large there are several 40-60 acre areas that we have not set foot in since we bought the place, we dont shoot at just anything and no target practice on the property. I think the deer know that our place is a safe haven because they arent affraid of gun shots bad, most of the time if you shoot one they wont even run off, and before someone asks this is low/no fence. We also feed corn and water year round and free choice protein about 8 months out of the year.

Hell if you can afford to game proof it least you wont have to deal with the meat hunters, it would be hard to raise trophy free range bucks on 300 acres with hunters all around you

Not what I like to here, thats exactly where we are at.

You seem to be selective on what you shoot then, I'd say keep doing that and see what bucks can slip through the cracks...and make plans to hunt early season and the rut (or late season over a lot of feed) to be able to see them.

Hunting early season or bow season even is a great recomendation. During the off season our bucks seem to stay very close to feed and water and being that our rut down in duval doesnt kick off until 3/4's of the season is over it gives you alot of time to hunt them before they get stupid and run off, but still if their arent any older ones to run then there arent any to shoot either.

I think the only way you will get traction is contacting the landowners directly, they will have the control over the hunting situation on each property. They can set the rules for their hunters and hopefully you all benefit, the meat hunters will have to likely go.

I dont think you can raise enough Big bucks on 300 acres without the cooperation of surrounding landowners for multiple hunters. 300 acres isn't very much to a buck, especially a mature breeder.

The fence would be a "last option" for me, but an option it is , along with the expense and maintenance.

As long as the others are shooting within thier legal rights there is really nothing you csn do. Not everyone is a trophy hunter and as long as they are legal they csn hunt for the meat. Painful as it may be to you it is ehst it is.
If I owned your place and being in Duval I would HF it if I could afford to, I would also try to have someone there daily, poaching is rampant. In that region I think HF is how you will reach your goals.

I have 2 small places in Fayette Co, family places for many generations, I do a heckuva lot to take care of all wildlife on both, sweat and dollars at high levels. I am 50 and have never killer a deer on either, I enjoy pictures snd sightings, I see bucks reach 5-6-7 + then deisappear, painful as heck. But one day I will take a great old buck off them.
FWIW I keep a lease to kill deer off, My enjoyment comes from giving the animals on my land the best environment I can physically and financially. Unfortunatly others it seems take advantage. But I am not changing what I do.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

After some more posts by others and thoughts on this, I would not HF unless you lived on the land. IMO to much poaching in that county to risk it without a daily presence or at least a secure dead end of the road property. What I would try to do with the money it would take to HF is do some long term leases on the surrounding acreages if at all possible. That way you can control the hunting a bit better. Make your land the core of the management area. If the neighboring places are family land and hunted by the family or "extended" family then it might not even be an option to lease them.

That could be a good option and it might not take all that much money. You could lease it to a group for whatever the LO wants and simply set the rules on the place. Shouldn't be much out of pocket.

Your problem goes away if you simply decide there is more to life than shooting a deer with big antlers. Obviously, you could put up a high fence and grow one until it suit your standards. But how much satisfaction that would give you is something that only you can answer. If you feel your efforts are benefiting your neighbors more than yourself, you can only blame yourself for that.

My suggestion is to either put up a fence to benefit only yourself, or find satisifaction with lower standards that would also result in less effort and frustration.

this may be your best work. classic.

shame on you pot needs to quit callin the kettle names

That was actually a typing error.

Some people actually find value in being reminded there are more things in life to get upset or frustrated over, than knowing somone might be shooting a wild animal before what they consider the proper time.

Nice to know there are those who follow my comments so closely.

Yes we do.. There's a creek that runs the middle of the property and that seems to be a hot spot in the past for animals of all types. Some of our "biggest" (loose term) bucks that we have pictures of have been caught with no feed around.

Yeah I got you. We see plenty, some days 10+ between my dad and myself on opposite sides of the property. Does mostly with a few male yearlings and spikes. Problem with that is a lot of the ranches that border us are smaller. A lot of the land there is divided on smaller tracks (100 acres +/-). Seeing isn't a problem. I've passed on several smaller basket 8 pointers in the past with intentions of hopefully letting them get older, but when they cross the fence line and I here a boom.. Well.. There's not much I can do.

We have two water wells with them being filled all year long. The northern end of the property is where we are trying to get a better water supply there. There's a water hole and have been filled by rain for the most part of the year, but it'll dry up here soon enough. Yeah it's from a big family tract that originated way back when. Our southern end is bordered by cousins who lease it out and their southern end by the same. It was originally 1000+ acres I believe..

I feel the same way about ours, it being a safe haven. I often refer to it as the Nursery because of the large amount of does and fawns/yearlings we have every year. Nothing gets shot on the land for a reason, not because the lack of deer.

Lol, you nailed it on the head with that one.

I've been toying with this idea for a while, just a matter of talking to them and gauging what they think about it. I think this might be the best route. Thanks guys.

I would think the local LO would be receptive, because they wouldn't have to deal with the lease, just you and in the long run, bigger deer means the possibility of bigger lease fees down the road.

hot diggity dawg, so you're finally saying something I'm doing is right!

You know that he is going to come up with something you are doing wrong now...or bring up Gumby again

and then these two go off and agree on something too. this place is starting to suck.

I am just in a benevolent mood today but don't expect it happen very often with my pot stirring UIBA little buddy

Wake up from that dream

do all the neighbors kill or just one or two? maybe you can get a co-op and high fence out the killers, and work with the people that have similar mindset to you.

North, north east and east side properties are the main ones

If those near you are shooting legal animals, there isn't much you can do except to high fence your property.

300 acres is a bit small for a HF, but it could work.

I hunted a HF area once with permission to shoot a cull. It is nice to watch the animals whether you shoot or not.

I did feel funny shooting something that had a name though.