antler restriction question

This may be a dumb question, but do the antler restrictions apply to us guys on the mld 3 properties? Because i've got a buck thats not 13 inches thats needs to go. Hes a 3.5 old puny seven point thats is just f'ed up. We have been trophy managing for fifteen years and i dont think tpwd should be telling us we cant cull our bucks that need to go.

MLD3 goes by whatever is on the management plan for that property. If 3.5yrs old is ya'lls criteria, pull the trigger.

Hey I got a question, if a nubbing buck has not quite broke through the skin is it still considered a buck? I'v e argued this with my fellow lease holders and told them that if the deer has male organs it is a buck, period. Am I right? I know to be legal it must pertrude at least 1" out of the skin, but even so, if it has not broke through then it cannot be tagged as a doe, correct? Just asking for general knowledge, thanks. And jbs8307, sorry to hijack your thread man.

If not broken through the skin it is considered an un-antlered deer. Look on your tags, they don't say buck or doe.

don't think it even has to be an inch. If it's has through skin, it's a buck... a nubbin (not through skin) is tagged as an antlerless. However, the rules within a lease sometimes determines what it "counts as", but it shouldn't change the way it's tagged.

It still amazes me that most of the questions on forums pertaining to our regulations can be found in the Outdoor Annual as well as on the TPWD website. Not all answers you will receive on a forum will be correct. Always go the regulation source, what is in print, the Outdoor Annual and if you have questions on any of those, contact TPWD in Austin, 1-800-792-1112.

Pertaining to the Antler Restriction question & MLD Level 2 & 3 properties:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/season/deer/spec_antler/

SPECIAL ANTLER RESTRICTIONS:
In selected counties (see County Listing), there are special regulations for buck deer. In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.

A legal buck deer is defined as having:
-a hardened antler protruding through the skin AND;
-at least one unbranched antler; OR
-an inside spread measurement between main beams of 13 inches or greater.

To determine if a buck has an inside spread measurement of at least 13 inches, look at the distance from ear-tip to ear-tip on a buck with ears in the alert position (see illustration). The 13-inch or greater inside spread requirement does not apply to any buck that has an unbranched antler.

Definition of a point: A point is a projection that extends at least one inch from the edge of a main beam or another tine. The tip of the main beam is also a point.

Does not apply on Level 2 or 3 MLDP properties.

Found on page 62 of the Outdoor Annual

The definition of a buck or antlerless deer:
A "buck deer" is a deer with a hardened antler protruding through the skin.
A "spike buck deer" is a BUCK with no antler having more than one point.
ALL OTHER DEER ARE ANTLERLESS DEER.
A spike buck must be tagged with a buck deer tag from the hunter's hunting license or applicable permit.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/deer/

Found on page 61 of the Outdoor Annual

clear as mud

Hey MO, I was on your side, learn to read or go back to fishing crap dot com.....sounds like you've been whereever and didn't like people there too... beginning to see a pattern???????

Geez, like I am ever going to take the state's side in ANY friggin antler restriction question, WOW...

I think he was talking about kyotee1's reply.

Yeah well he needs to quote him then... lump me in with fishing morons and antler restriction people....crap...

I see your point Sig....folks don't pay attention to stuff like that and they should!

yes i wasnt talking to you sig. I was reffering to this comment:
"It still amazes me that most of the questions on forums pertaining to our regulations can be found in the Outdoor Annual as well as on the TPWD website."

It just came off very arrogant. These forums are for disscusions and questions.
And i dont even post on the fishing forum. I just see the same kindof I'm better than you tone in the post over there and this site is usually very friendly.
Maybe the guy didnt mean anything by but thats just how it read to me. He did help by answering the question and thankyou for that.

Sorry about that sig i should have quoted him.

I think maybe that fella that you didn't like his response is a game warden or something.

He works for TP&W, but isnt a GW.

I love the dichotomy of your original post and your signature line........

well then that makes perfect sense!

Asked and answered... seems pretty clear to me.

i was reffering to a cull buck in my original post. that doesnt contradict my signature line.

I've been eating animals for 48 years and don't
think TPWD should be telling me which ones to eat
and which ones not to eat.

i have killed three bucks in the last 15 years on our place!

Well you should spend more time in the woods then!

its a you shoot it you mount it lease so i m very picky. Its more about the hunting than the killing a buck every year. But there are spikes, does and tons of hogs to keep busy.

Shouldn't spikes be allowed to grow up to be "trophies"?

its a percentages game and percentages are not in favor of the spikes being trophies. Well according to tpwd. We have been killing everyone we see for fifteen years. and there alot more tens and twelves than there used to be.

Is it killing spikes that makes them 10's and 12's or the $500 fine (mounting) for shooting one?

no way to tell for sure but i can tell you tens and twelves were un heard of on our plae for 7 years or so. There are studies to support it either way. We kindof side with tpwd on this one. why take the chance. We have a buck to doe ration of 1 buck to .7 does. So a few culls a year doesnt hurt anything. We dont kill many spikes on average maybe 2 a year and they are young ones.
Even at that 7-9 year mark 10 points and above was very rare. Its been a gradual increase in antler quality over the last fifteen years. In my opinion its is from culling, but who really know because younger bucks usually leave the property as a natural deffense against imbreeding. Who really knows for sure anyway. I just know what we have been doing is working. There was an eleven and 13 point killed this year. The 13 scored 162.

and the fine is just a cord of firewood for the lease the following year. Which is $125. Its a family lease. There have been a few uh oh's but thats part of it. We dont get mad about it, but they do catch hell aroung the camp fire for it.

Well if you have to mount it, it's more than the $125...

Is that a face cord or a whole cord, or two ricks?//

Hey now!
You're just trying to stir 2 pots with 1 stick!!!

ya like i said its a family lease so the penalty isnt that stiff. Its a whole cord. I know mounting it is more expensive. We are trophy managing so everyone expects to mount every deer they kill. No one has ever just shot one one and said screw it the fine is only 125. we are all on the same page. The uh ohs have just been some bad judgement calls in low light or a small amount of reaction time. The bucks we see during the season are usually on a mission and sometimes snap decisions get made.

Although there is this one guy. Hes had three oh ohs in a five year period. But he caught so much sh!t for it he has become very picky. nothing serious just a little sh!t talkin.

Yessir, yessur I was..... I just couldn't pass it up....

These are his other two off the lease though:

Dang it Vernon!!! you were doing so well on staying away from AR threads....... I will see you at the AR's anamonomus meeting Thursday.........we can talk about it and get you back on the wagon

and i yes get the sarcasm sig

He's like me, can't help it....anywho, The AR's anamonomus meeting is today........

anamonoimuoiss anmoandnoun anoinmmojn ous It's called SPELL CHECK....

Geez, I was going to ask how to recognize you guys at the bar today, but somehow I don't think it will be a problem

I'll be wearing a .45's ballcap....i'll try not to be annonnimuss.

COLT 45's ????? THe original team of the Fannin County Flash Joe Morgan?

What about Cable have we heard from him?

He'll be there.

No, maybe you didn't, but you do have access to the website, and if you were unable to locate the regulation, it was listed in the post for you.

With that kinda of language in your original post and now to what I posted to answer your questions, you fire back at me. Way too many folks use foul language to get a point across or to make a statement...only it shows their personality and character.

careful guys........ we keep this up and someone is liable to get their feelings hurt

Is SIG causing trouble in an AR thread again?


PHish

he usually is.....

HEY!

I resemble that remark. And I ain't really causing trouble am I?

by being in this thread u are causing trouble.

if you read the post that you qouted me on you will see that i said i did not see it on tpwd's website. And i did thankyou for the information. I just dont appreciate the comment at the beggining of your post.
Instead of making some snyde passive agressive comment to a simple question, isnt better to just go ahead a get the point across. If the language offends you then i appologize i guess. I didnt realize this was sunday school.

people think it's a dumb question until a warden is sitting in camp planning to issue citations based on width recorded in the harvest log on an mld3 lease. You would think those people should know the state's rules and regs.

If someone doesn't really know, it;s not a dumb question in my book....

Now for people that have to ask often, (more than once) it becomes a dumb question fast.

I am innocent.

AR'S SUCK!!!!

THERE.....SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT!!

10-4 there good buddy.

Cant we all just get along !!

I just dropped in to say, Boobies !!

hey watch what u are talkin about, didnt u hear, this is like sunday school over here. lol

Sorry, mammary glands !!

lmao

Its the retarded policeman!

Ill have you know I scored over 75 on my IQ test LOL, and what you talkin bout I aint no popo ?

No, no, no. I thought you were referring to this video I saw on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDlf6hA6TY

This cracks me up! Check it out. You'll see why I said that. Sorry for the confusion!

lol hillarious......


awww fudgicles.......

That was hilarious ! Well it was kinda stupid, but teh BOOBIES part was greatness !!

Glad you liked it. I've seen it a million times and it still cracks me up!

You lack of spikes probley has more to do with the other things you have done, not the actually harvest of them...

If you agree on TPWD view on spikes You might actually read the whole kerr study... Only thing it proved was STx deer are bigger then H.Country deer when you line breed them to thier offspring.

Boobies???? where???? I see no proof of boobies Triple dog dare you

You know you're on a roll when I have to read every stinking post to find quotes from all the deleted posts so I'll know what was being said.

they deleted posts?

like i said there are studies to support both arguments. but you cant cant argue with success

we see spikes every year and the following year we really can't tell which ones were spikes.

Yeah. If you start at the OP and start reading, you can't figure out why everybody is so mad. After a while, you'll see a post where someone quotes a post that doesn't exist anymore. I couldn't figure out what got everybody's dander up at first.

Im not saying all spikes stay spikes. Im just saying we dont take the chance. We have seen a graduall increase in antler qaulity and number of points on average so we will continue to shoot em. We are only talking about maybe 2 a year on 2400 acres. That isnt alot. Thats an average its has been less than two the last few years.

well thats not bad. We tend to just leave them alone and play the numbers game. The more bucks we have in an age class, the more options we have when that class makes the hitlist.

Please step away from the quote button......

and yes you can agrue with success... Because I'm sure shooting spikes isn't the only thing you have done to improve your heard. You already said you have almost a 1-1 ratio, and I'm sure you also feeding..

ever think that the decline in spike probley has more to do with the condition of your deer rather then genetics?????????

what about me bobo, all ive done is shoot spikes, no does, and about 2 decent bucks for the past 8 or so years..... im seeing WAY less spikes. and bigger deer. o, im not feeding either. maybe some corn a month or two a year.

I'm taking a break from an antler restriction threads to collect more data.

LMAO may you population denisty is a little different then most.. If you had small numbers to start with... then it does matter, every thing you see is a result of good habitit based off low numbers, and or you have become stricter on your age class that you harvest... The older you set the bar on bucks the more younger bucks have the ability to become super stars... So are you seeing better bucks becuase they are actually getting some age or because you think you are changing the genetics via culling young spikes???

Answer me this is there anyone in the WORLD that can look at a Yearling Buck or 1.5 and tell you what he will score at 6.5???????? Can you look at a spike and say you know 100% that he wont be a 140, 150, 160, 170????

fact is if you cant control dispersal then you can't control genetics and if your shooting young bucks b/c they are spikes you may very well be elimating an age class on your place. Again whats the point of shooting spikes(via genetics) if your not shooting thier momma's... Spike horns are not genetic at the ages of 0-1.5 they are enviormental.

if the top bio. and breeders can't look at a deer and tell you what he will score as a yearling or 1.5 year old then what makes you think you can.

If spikes horns in yearling and 1.5 year olds where genetic then by not shooting any does you would eventualy have nothing but spikes via your thinking. Becuase those Does are allowed to stay that produced those spikes, and thier duaghters and thier granddaughter...ect(Becuase I promise you those yearling 1.5 year old spikes aren't producing more B/C they are to young to breed, for the most part)... But your not seeing that... Make sence?

my larger deer are def coming because of older deer, i will admit that.

Thanks BOBO, you make better arguments against the current antler restrictions than even me!!!!!!!!

BOBO, Vern, you both make me look like a novice AR debater, haha. )

No Curly you are a masterdbater