223, 243, 270, 30.06

You’ve heard it before and we all have our opinion. So let’s do it once again.
We have 12 year old twin granddaughters who want to hunt. Warms my heart. They are very small framed girls so I have suggested with some holdback to get them 243,s. I personally do not think they would do well with anything of a heavier caliber although I started out at 7 with a 30.06. The other grandpa thinks they need to deer hunt with a 223 because the 243 is too big in his opinion. I’m like, 223 for deer? Are you kidding me. I’m not big on shooting deer with a 243, much less a 223. And the truth be known, some states it’s illegal to shoot deer with a 223.

So blast away. I will enjoy the comments. 😊

And before we get started…don’t say it’s all about shot placement. Isn’t it always?

IMO, .223 is a little light for deer. Yes, I know it will work, and I personally have used it. I like a bigger bullet. For kids and recoil sensative wives, nothing beats a 300blk. Anyone that disagrees is wrong.

7mm-08. Not much recoil and it will untrack any deer that lives.

6.5 Grendel

.223 is deadly. .243 in a fairly hefty gun is comparable in recoil to a .223. Same cartridge in a light plastic rifle can rattle your teeth harder than a .30/06 in a wood stock. My wife handles 20 gauge slugs easier than the .243 ruger American. First time she shot it she said ouch! And never shot it again.

So don’t just assume because it’s a .243 it has lite recoil. If you want a gun for her that is equally light and easy to handle, a .223 will kill anything. I don’t care what “they” say. My stepbrother shot an old .222 remington and killed everything with it.

Edit- i also agree with the grendel round and almost any of the light cartridges in an AR platform. It is hard to beat an AR for recoil in the first place. Great rifles.

How many deer you killed with a .223?

I’ve shot a few and wasn’t impressed in the least. .22-250 is better but not perfect.

I started my kids with 7mm-08’s and hornady reduced recoil loads. Never had any problem killing animals.

I would get a 7mm-08 with a threaded barrel, put a hood can on it and get to shooting.

They will find it very pleasant

I have killed zero with a .223. My step brother on the other hand. All we had was a .22-250 and a .222, and rimfire stuff and of course pellet guns. I never went on any of their hunting trips. Welp it is what it is, not everyone does everything with the stepbrother/stepson that they do with their sons and brothers lol. But i am not gonna gonna take that conversation any further, by now you know my deer hunting path started as an adult, txtropy.

I know a .222 remington is deadly, and therefore a .223 is deadly too. No you are not going to just center punch deer with it like a 7 mag and kill them. But a well placed shot from a .223 will kill any native game in Texas inside 100-150 yards.

People think a .223 does little damage because it is a .22 caliber round. I have not used one on deer but i can promise you this, a .223 can shred your bones. It is a bad little round. Its not spectacular like a typical big game round, but all day long on a Texas deer it will kill them.

Teach your kids anatomy and wait for broadside shot.

Or if it makes you feel better wait for them to grow a little more, or get a 6.5 or 6.7 or 7.62 AR cartridge, or don’t. Step up in case capacity to a .243, the weight and shape of that gun matters more to a sensitive shooter.

But a .22 centerfire round in general is better than “they” will lead you to believe. Not as good as a .243 but it will work. Even with a 55 grain round it can be very effective. But i would probably shoot a better bullet, the bullets today are so good.

I think a .223 with something like a 55 grain partition would be dynamite. But no i haven’t used the partition myself in any cartridge so that must make me wrong lol.

There are some that will also tell you the .243 is marginal at best.

The cartridge is much less important than the design of the projectile.

I think the important thing to consider is the skill of the shooter. A good shot with a 223 won’t starve, but there is less margin for error than you’d get with a larger caliber. A newby shooter with a 223 wouldn’t be who I sent out to get us a deer. I’d go with the 243 for young shooters. A Ruger Hawkeye Compact or a Browning Midas would be good choices. Add a nice soft recoil pad if needed.

Another low recoil option would be a Tikka in 260 or 6.5 CM shooting a 100 gr bullet. I shot a lot of deer with the 260 and 100 gr Ballistic Tips, and recoil is light. And reloads, or light loads from Dallas Reloads or JG, with 100 gr bullets would be easy to shoot.

And a small bolt rifle in 6.5 Grendel might be the best choice of all.

I would not recommend an AR for youth shooters. A bolt action is so much simpler, and simplicity in this regard means safety.

My experience would say 7-08 for a few reasons.

First, there seems to be less ammo choices available and all of them geared toward hunting.

Second, the twist rates seem to facilitate the above ammo, less thought on the matter.

Third, ballistically it really makes use of shorter barrels

#4, completely capable on big game animals like elk

Fifth, less recoil and more bang for your buck

I personally think the 7-08 over the years has been given the short end of the stick concerning love from ammunition manufacturers.

I like the 243 win but all rifles definitely don’t shoot all ammo’s

All that being said, the Rem 223 hyper stuff knocks the piss outta deer

I’m a 30-06 fan but it will develop some bad habits with a 12 year old girl from concussion alone, much less recoil.

Love my 7mm08 but think the light recoil for beginner recoil shy kids is bs.

I’ve killed literal truckloads of deer with a 223. It and a good bullet would work well. Bought a blackout for my boy he hasn’t killed a deer yet but has several javalina to its name.

If you a handloader dang near anything can work fine.

After working with many young kids in shooting sports I have found muzzle blast seems to bother them more than recoil . High intensity rounds like .223 and .243 have a lot of blast , and people make it worst by getting short barrel rifles for kids . Yes a .223 will kill a deer , so will a 22lr with a perfect shot . That is rare for young beginners , and it is not good to start them out with wounded game that ran off . 7mm/08 has too much recoil , it is just shy of .308 with some bullets . 300 BO is ok , it is a .30 cal hole , but with the 110 bullets it has some blast but not bad on recoil , but is not too much more than the 30 carbine . This is one of the reasons I developed the cartridge that became the 350 legend about 5 years ago . Straight case is lower pressures and less blast [ even with a shorter barrel ] , recoil not that bad , a 160 - 180 .357 dia bullet hits much harder than a .223 . So much more room for error with the shot . The only real draw back is it is 150 yd max , but I would not have a 12 year old girl shooting farther than that .

What Gary said…..the 6.5 Grendel is a perfect “entry level” for deer. Other than that, several of the 6mm cartridges fit the bill.
If you load, I could imagine great things from a lightly loaded .25-06.

Zero Blast, especially suppressed. My #2 Niece just brought her BF down, dropped his first deer, with the BO. Those Barnes bullets just work within range. Other Niece killed her first buck with it 2 yrs ago. Big holes, zero problems with penetration.

Lots of great information. Thank you all for the comments. Keep them coming. I’m especially intrigued by recoil over muzzle brake. I would like to hear more on that aspect as I felt sure a muzzle brake would be a must.

I have 5 feeders on our property. Two that are just over 100 yards which would be perfect for them. They can later graduate to our 170 yard and then in time advance to our 225 and 235 yarders. Of course with larger caliber rifles as well.

We have some time so I’m in no hurry. Maybe, depending on how they do on paper, they can shoot pigs by Spring possibly Summer.with the AR. They are not completely forign to guns but haven’t shot much because I do not own any rifles they can shoulder other than a AR 15 which they have only shot a few times. All my kids and grandkids have been able to shoot 270, 30.06 and the likes of. We have no shortage in calibers, just short on rifles for small framed girls. Im thinking we will practice with the .22’s and move up to the AR for a while. From there we will choose a good calaber rifle and style that fits them best.

There is no comparison between .22LR and .223

Of course not. I just want to get them on good paper with the .22 and then move up to the 223 at 100 yards.

I would start them with a 300 BO, then a .243 bolt gun with proper ammo and never look back Sir.

Don't forget a 22-250.

My youngest daughter (9) is always good on paper with her new 6.8SPC, which I also think is a bad azz hunting round for adults and kids. My only experience with it prior was on big pigs and it never disappointed. She's about to pop a few deer with her new 6.8, that is a guarantee, and I believe all of them will be hanging in a short manner.

Sorry friend that was not aimed at you.

For me i'd go the 6.5 Grendel route. Not a lot of recoil and not limited in range. I hunt with a 243 and 300bo as well but if i had to pick one it would be the Grendel.

It’s all good my friend

Many good choices these days, find something with a well made 80-100 GR bullet that will make impact above 1800 FPS and go hunt. A 6 ARC would be great IMO. I put a Micro Bastard brake on a Ruger American 243 for a small frame kid to shoot a few weeks ago and the recoil is like a 22 LR, basically none. The kid shot it real well. 223 can kill them, my kid just nailed a good size hog off the front porch with one 15 minutes ago that is now peacefully sleeping. Keep it simple, no need to overthink it.

Sig Cross in 6.5 Creedmoor with suppressor. Adjustable stock to fit most anyone and a rifle they can shoot for a lifetime.

I bought my wife a REM 222. She shot a deer and decided it wasn’t t for her. Then my 8 year old grandson shot one with it. Several granddaughters have used it. I used it after my shoulder surgery.

I consider it an excellent first deer rifle.

Did this even need to be said?

Nothing stirs the pot more than a subject like this! Very easy answer to your question....

Heres my 2 cents worth, take it or leave it.

.223 all the way, Been using Rem 700, with Timmey trigger bedded, no complaints! I hand
load, 55grn Noslers ballistic tips, 4895 powder.
Brain location, behind the ear shot. No waste, no body shots.
No chasing around the woods looking for blood trails til 2 am!
Most shots are less than 90yds. No need to make 300yrd hail mary shots!

Next caliber up, my choice is ..243.


Hunt safe, Happy 2024 year....

Awesome! Cartridge and caliber debates, especially when talking deer hunting, never get old!

7mm-08 is the answer. It's "as deadly" as the other more common choices and is mild shooting.

I have a .222 REM project right now and it would work fine too except the price of OEM ammo and the smallish size. It's better for game than .223 REM in my book when semi-jacketed soft points are used. Kinda like a mini-.30/30.

Lemme guess - the other grandpa considers himself an expert on the subject but isn't going to spend a dime and expects you to buy the rifle.

Get a reasonably heavy .243. They'll be fine. 12-year-old new hunters aren't going to be shooting "behind the ear."

Solid advice. Many have recommended a cartridge including myself, but only 1 has mentioned the weight of the rifle, which absorbs recoil.

This https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts...-20-threaded-heavy-barreled-mini-action/

Bolted to this https://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1139

or this in youth model (shorter LOP) https://mdttac.com/oryx-chassis-system/

A suppressor or muzzle brake would make any rifle more pleasant for them.
Edit: The 6ARC would work too but I like the 6.5 bullets as they are a little heavier.

I guess when you think about it; how many big burly men over 250lbs, all over the world have been killed by a .223. Some shot right through both shoulders, some arms and limbs blown completely off. Some that took the shot and kept going. With that said, there are many newer rounds making their mark.

Apparently

That new Ruger American looks like it has a lot of features for not a lot of $.

Nothing works better for both young and old hunters alike than a .243.

22-250, 6.5 CM or anything in between...and really for most Texas sized whitetail and .223 with proper shot placement and heavier bullets would be fine. I have shot plenty with a .223 with no issue-but really impressed with what the 22-250 did for me last season.

don't overthink it too much-heavy gun, light recoil round and good bullet/shot placement is a good recipe for a youngster.

post pics when they knock something down!

Mine all learned with a 22-250. Saving that tack driving Ruger for the grandsons now.

You sure you want to stand by that statement? The bison, elk and jaguar are all native to TX. I wouldn't want to use a .223 for any of those. Will a .223 kill deer sized game? Yes it will. Is it the best round for deer? No it isn't. Remember we are talking new and inexperienced hunters here and it better to start them with a better round than a .223.

First of all the 22's in my book are too light. Talking recoil the 243 is the best of the bunch. For a gun to grow into and it's versatility, as many have said the 7mm-08 probably is the best. But I think a caliber worth mentioning is the always underrated 257 Bob. I own one and it 's fun to shoot with light recoil and the ability to take Mulie's with a well placed shot to 250 yards.

The 117 grain Hornady SST is accurate as all get out too.

Yes i will stand by it since elk are not recognized by TPWD as native game (obviously) and nor bison for that matter. They are exotics hunted year round on ranches in Texas. And yeah I think a .223 will stomp a jaguar’s butt but jaguars are not “game”.

I agree if they can handle it start them off with a better cartridge. But if it is a sensitive shooter it’s better to start with a .223 than not to start at all.

.22-250 is a small step up in recoil for a lot more performance.

I am beginning to think it’s less what I said and more that I am the one that stated it. If a .223 is all a shooter can handle comfortably then there sure are some darn fine bullets that will do it. You control the range where they can make the shot with confidence.

The first thing you need to consider is getting a rifle that fits them now. A properly fitting rifle will cure some of the problems young shoots tend to experience when shooting dad’s or grandpa’s hand me downs.
Several companies make youth size rifles in price ranges to fit every budget in calibers that are youth friendly.
IMO the 243 win. is an excellent round for young hunters. Hornady makes a Custom Lite round for the .243 that has a little over 6 ft.lbs. of recoil. It’s a light enough recoil for firing multiple practice shots but is very capable round for both deer and hogs. The 87 gr. SST round has very similar ballistics to 100 gr. Winchester Power Points.
I started both of my grandsons with this round when they were 8 years old using a Remington 700 SPS Youth model. My younger grandson is small framed and had no problem firing multiple practice rounds with the Hornady Custom Lites. When it came time to hunt, I re-sighted their rifle using 100 grain Winchester Power Points and they never knew the difference when they harvested their first deer.

A suppressed 7-08, 6.5 CM, or 308 will kick about the same as a 223. All can carry a good-sized bullet and they're WAY more fun to shoot due to the reduced noise.

I’m not an experienced big game hunter myself i will admit. It’s no secret i am very inexperienced deer hunter myself. But i grew up around a bunch of crazy hillbilly bikers and they all killed a lot of animals with a whole lot less than a .223!

And one thing I consider myself a verified expert in is recoil sensitive pre teen girls, as a girl dad myself I can tell you from experience. Just a 16” 22 LR too early has too much muzzle blast for some kids. You’ll have to start them on colibris, or CCI Quiet has been a great load for me to get my kids interested. That is what i had to buy for them in 4H smallbore rifle.

And a .243 just might kick their little tails all over the place. Seriously. And as it has been stated before muzzle blast is as important as recoil.

I can’t even get my kids to come out of the truck when i am shooting a AR 15 with a brake. They are 13 and 14. I have tried double ear pro. That brake makes it unbearable to them.

I got some managed recoil 30/30 hopefully that will tame them muzzle blast enough but it still kicks harder then a .223. Probably gonna roll the dice on using a 9mm carbine with gold dot slugs for my kids first deer. “Roll the dice” in jest, i have no doubt it would kill.

Doesn't matter what the TWPD calls them elk, bison and jaguar ARE native to the state, look it up. You didn't say animals currently listed as game, you said native game animals. I'm also willing to be the grizzly is a native game animal since there is a Mexican Grizzly that is critically endangered and there is no reason they couldn't cross the Rio Grande just like the Jaguars did. Black bears are also native to the state along the NM line and the LA line. .223 is a great varmint round but it will always be little more than a marginal big game round which is why many states disallow it for deer sized game in the first place.

The 243 will give the best performance and young people will grow into the rifle.

The .243 is often thought of as a round for kids or women. Here is my experience with it. Several years ago I bought a used .243 to have as a back up deer rifle (I have a .270). I sighted it in, and put in the the closet. Then I tried it on deer, to compare it to the .270. I hit two deer in the vitals, and did not see a difference. Fast forward to now. I like the scope on the .243 better, because I can see better out of it. I have shot 3 deer (so far) this season, with no issues. I do think that some calibers are to small for deer, but also think any size, 243/6mm or larger, works fine. That is based on my experience. I have never used a smaller caliber. The moral of this post is don't overlook the .243 just because you are a guy.

In this order:

Bolt action all of them. And if you are not a hand loader.

6.5 Grendel
6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08 (<<equally good choices)
.308 Win

But the stock needs to be adjustable length. Adjustable comb or a stock pack will probably also be necessary.

Completely off topic but they did kill a Grizzly in the Davis mountains around the turn of the 20th century. Interesting story. The Smithsonian is in possession of the remains ( they “borrowed” it from the family who killed it and refused to give it back).

Black bears are also becoming quite common again with many sighting taking place in Big Bend, the western Hill Country and in South Texas.


But none of this has anything do with the fact that a .223 is an extremely marginal round for big game. That’s why you don’t see trophy hunters using them.

For whatever reason it’s common to give kids and young shooters the worst rounds to accomplish a job, rather than what’s ideal.

I would argue that any well fitting rifle from 308 on down with a brake/suppressor combo will be fine. If you really want to minimize blast then it’s very hard to beat the 300 blk loads with the 110 Barnes tac-x bullet.

You might also want to set up a pop up a little closer, if that’s reasonable.

True story, and puts a nice hole in them.

Man some of ya’ll have no clue about rifles for sensitive pre-teen girls. I know there are some that shoot a .270 but we are talking about *sensitive* pre-teen girls. Not farm kids.

Anyway whatever you do you gotta know your kids and ease them into it if they are sensitive young girls especially. I am gonna be the one to say, do not just give her a .308 and expect it to go well lol. There are grown men on this forum that can barely handle a .308 but they won’t admit it. Good luck.

laid over, where are you getting this data? Blakesnake never said they were sensitive, he said they were small. He never said where they live either, as if that mattered. It's impossible to say a 308 is too much. We don't know the weight of the rifle, muzzle brake or can, recoil pad installed. Have you ever shot a 308 that weighs over 20 pounds?

I am a father of a pre-teen girl. She does not like noise. Kid is tough as nails but she doesent like noise. That’s where the suppressor comes in.

People also coddle kids too much where they don’t need it. A .243 is not a hard kicking round by any stretch. I shot a 6 lb 30-30 when I was 10 years old and at 12 got a .270. I don’t think I weighed 75 lbs at 12.

Kids are also not the best shots and it’s wise to give them as much margin of error as possible. A marginal hit with a .7mm-08 is much better than a marginal hit from a .223. I’m not a huge fan of the .243 either but it’s much better than a .223.


Don’t handicap kids unnecessarily and if they can’t handle an appropriate caliber wait until they can.

Word

Women and children don't like loud and they don't like recoil.

Any teacher is doing them a disservice by trying to teach them to shoot accurately as well as manage recoil at the same time. Get them shooting sometime comfortable first, then move to more power and managing recoil.

My daughter (90 pounds) is days away from shooting the Tikka Varmint .223, that is suppressed. Almost no recoil, and quiet. She'll hit everything to 800 yards before we move to something larger, like her 6.5X47 Lapua.

She's gonna like that, nice and easy and oodles of fun. What took you so long slacker? As I recall, she the same age as mine.

Blacksnake, let me know if you have any interest in getting hands on a 6.5 Grendel sized for kids. I don't mean to buy, I mean to test for/with the girls.

Will be tougher on the girls mentally to wound and lose an animal than working with additional recoil. My vote is .243 all day long over 223. 30.06 at 7 years old? Man, we were tough back in the day! You take the cake !

I tried to get her on a rifle a few years ago. She's so small she couldn't get a sight picture. I recently bought a KRG Bravo for that barreled action. Now I can adjust the chassis to get her a clean sight picture. I waited until she brought it up. And she brought it up two weeks ago.

She hears rifle fire on a weekly basis. Now she wants to do it herself.

Shooting a gun doesn’t have to hurt. That’s why silencers are the best investment a shooter can make.

When I was a skinny little kid, my dad started me out with a Browning BAR .243 Win. Heavy, and semi-auto, so recoil never bothered me, but, FWIW, I don't recall ever having a one-shot kill on a deer using that rifle.

I'd sold that rifle to a friend years before my daughter was even born. My dad, though, had a lightweight 6mm Rem bolt-action rifle that I thought was a good choice for her when she was about 9 yrs old (2004). Alas, I should've tried it myself before letting her pull the trigger because, after her first shot (100 gr bullet) at the range, I couldn't get her to pull the trigger a second time! Looked more closely and tears were streaming down her cheeks. Turns out that recoil with that little rifle is surprisingly stout! My daughter never touched it again.

After that misstep, I ponied up to a custom 7mm08 Rem for her, with a muzzle brake (always using hearing protection). Recoil, noise, and muzzle blast with that rifle never bothered her. Ended up being a very good choice for her.

Nowadays, though, I think a suppressed rifle of just about any modest cartridge would be ideal for a young girl. Braked would be my second choice.

Just went thru this with my 9 year old granddaughter.
Her dad is a competitor in pistol/AR comps so he has a Mantis trainer. Her and her little brother practice trying to score better on that which helps trigger control tremendously we found as she could hit moving targets with the 22 Rascal on first trip to range.
So first step start them with fun shooting with 22’s then progress to 223 etc up to hunting calibers Suppressed with lighter loads.
I bought a barreled action Bergara 6.5 that the barrel had been shortened from classified ad here on THF. Dropped it into a MDT chassis that has an adjustable stock and loaded 50 rounds of reduced 123gr loads for her to just play with.
First trip we just shot to 300yds and she had no issues. Next trip she ran steel animal targets to 600yds with no misses.
Then we let her shoot while sighting in the rifle with the load made to take an elk.
Since it was suppressed she didn’t seem to notice the extra recoil.
Last Christmas’s cow elk

Took me forever to convert but I admit, suppressors are the best thing to happen to shooting since the invention of smokeless powder.

Same. My only regret is not picking one up years ago.

Yep. Wish I had learned earlier. Still don’t know how this got by me.

Wasn't the 6.5 Creedmore designed for little girls?

I thought the 350 legend had more recoil than that. I was under the impression it is somewhere along the lines of a 35 remington that fits in a AR15. But i started using the googles based on what you said and every chart i have read so far says this load has lighter recoil than a .243.

I just never understood it’s usefulness outside of a straight wall cartridge state. But i am starting to get it.

Can a suppressor for a 9mm pistol can also be used on the 350 legend?

my 7 year old started off with 6.5 CM

if I had known about 77 TMK’s in a 223 I would of started her off with that. It’s about all I’m personally using now. Especially for bears and lions moving forward.

18” 22 CM & 77 TMK’s suppressed might be the perfect rifle for me going forward.

Whatever i get next it is coming with a suppressor. Just based on the last several posts in this thread. Suppessor… suppressor… suppressor… suppressor…

It is a pretty big deal for me to spend $1k or more on a single accessory like that. Plus a tax stamp. It’s a big deal for a lot of folks. But i feel like i might be making a mistake, just by not having a suppressor.

Smart move.

Nope. They were designed for folks with a lifted yellow jeep with rubber ducks on the dash.

There is a <1% chance you will regret this purchase. It's a total game changer. Do it.

Harvester evo. $699 and a great hunting suppressor.

SilencerCo Scythe-Ti

6.16"
7.3 ounces

300 Win Mag rated. No barrel length restrictions.

I researched two weeks ago. It was between the Scythe, or Dead Air

SilencerCo fixed a baffle strike that was entirely my fault free of charge. Great customer service.

118 db with 300 blackout. Less than 22 LR. Man that sounds like the solution. It’s not cheep though.

This thread has now been hijacked but this ^^^^^ is hilarious!!!

250 Savage in an old Ruger M77 compact would be perfect

I am not a wealthy man. But when it comes to suppressors, they are the one thing that price is not a factor.

Buy the smallest, lightest, best decibel reduction made. And it does not matter if it is $100 or $200 more than the next "decent" option. Because 20, 30, 40 years from now, who gives a chit that you spent $100 or $200 more on the BEST? Suppressors will last a person a lifetime.

I shouldn’t even comment on this topic with all you experts bc I am definitely not a ballistics expert. But just from experience I know I started on a rem 700 .243 at 10 years old. I still to this day shoot that gun. I’ve only started shooting my .270 lately bc my son is shooting my .243. For the first 25 years of shooting it, I never even thought twice about what ammo I even shot. Just bought a cheap box and hunted. Killed countless deer with it with no problems and never thought about all the details that we discuss now. I’m a .243 fan. I even shot it with a 4 power Weaver scope until 10 years ago. Go with the .243

You buy yours from Twisted Precision in CP?

.223's and 22-250's are more than sufficient to harvest deer, ethically. To me - shot placement is more critical than caliber size. Typically, less recoil equates to a more accurate shot - especially with kids. If a new shooter (whether a kid or just a new shooter in general), is taught proper shot placement and proper shooting techniques - larger calibers are not needed. With all that said, I am talking about a typical Texas whitetail at a reasonable distance. I shoot a 22-250, 50 gr Hornady Varmint Express and take nothing but neck shots on deer and ear hole shots on pigs. I have had neither take a step after impact and have very little to no loss of meat. My opinion - those calibers are great teaching tools and extremely lethal.

Yep. My first suppressor is a 9mm suppressor that I use on my 357 mag rifle and 300blk. My next purchase will be a full power short action rifle (308 or 7mm08) threaded and ready to go for a direct thread suppressor that will live on that rifle. Go with a short barrel. Even a 20" barrel seems a bit unwieldy once you add a suppressor. You won't regret having a suppressor.

Worth noting.

Big fan of 7MM-08 and .25-.06, would probably start a younger person there. .25-.06 with a 117 or even 100 gr. bullet is a laser with plenty of knockdown and more than manageable recoil. 7MM-08 creeps up closer to a
.270 in terms of recoil and .30 cal from there and upward. Candidly I don't know much about the newer popular calibers, 6.5 Creedmore, 350 Legend, etc. Have heard that the 350 Legend is best when kept under 200 yard shots due to lost velocity and droppage though.

Send em on home with the trusty 270 win

I grew up killing lots of stiff with 22-250, but the twist rate always kept me away from bigger bullets,

I been culling with 223 1/8 and 77gr TMK’s all high shoulder and shoulder shots from 75 to 242yard. So far nothings went more the 2 feet

Hornady makes a reduced recoil round that isn't much different than recoil on the .223. I use this in my daughters and it shoots great.

You won't regret this decision.

Wilkersons in Boerne

Nailed it. lol
But I’d rather get them their first rifle anyways

I have an inkling you're referring to my comment. I'm an expert on the "other" grandparents. You go Grandpa. I'm behind you 100%.

Very kind of you. I’ll keep you in mind

100%

.243 is a better round for those longer shots. It’s basically a necked down .308; giving similar accuracy. I started at age 10 with a Remington bolt action in that caliber. Still my favorite caliber for deer. A walnut stock takes up what little kick it has a little better than synthetic; however, synthetic better for girls if they need to walk or spot n stalk with it.
IMO: .243 is best. Be sure to have them measured; have stock cut down by professional. Its like learning to ride a bicycle that is too tall. Not comfortable.

12 year old little girls. .223 with a fast twist (anywhere from 9-7) to shoot heavier bullets or .243. If you teach them to shoot they won’t have any trouble. If you don’t teach them to shoot they will experience erratic results regardless of caliber. Learning to shoot requires a lot of practice and should be fun. Light recoil during practice is the reason I chose the .223 or .243. For a young child and practice a .223 is going to be easiest to master during practice without them getting twitchy. (How I started my own son). I’m 63 and the .243 has been referred to as a woman’s and children’s rifle for as long as I remember. .243 is a solid choice to learn with. Heavy rifle makes absolutely no sense for a small framed child’s hunting rifle if you want them to learn to handle it in any setting other than a bench rest. A light weight, small caliber, compact bolt gun is the ticket for your granddaughters in my opinion.
These caliber for kids threads are great but the discussions are always all over the place.
Enjoy the time you get to spend with them!

If she’s a big girl I wouldn’t avoid the bigger calibers (especially if suppressed)

A 223 with a 60 grain partition will absolutely hammer a deer.

You really want her to feel comfortable behind the gun and not develop any bad flinching habits (like me)

Started my daughter at age 7 with .17HMR to get used to shooting, then she graduated to a .243 with reduced recoil loads to hunt deer (she did drop a big hog with a headshot with the .17). In the field, I'd quietly replace the .243 reduced recoil loads with a 100 grain shell and she never knew the difference, and regularly shoots deer with the same gun at age 13. I did get her barrel threaded for a suppressor, and that really helps her--at least psychologically--with recoil and sound. I think there's a lot to recovering deer, and if she's shooting something on the lighter side like a .223, there's a chance the deer might be lost with a less than perfect shot, which might adversely affect her desire to hunt in the future. A .243 could be the rifle she carries for the rest of her life.

kids grow quickly-----

I own both .243 (my first rifle at 11 years old) and 7mm-08 (a good choice as they grow older)

I would start with a 243 and shoot with a Caldwell rest (at the range) Once they actually hunt, they won't feel any recoil with their adrenaline flowing

GOOD LUCK!!!

I found myself in the same situation last year with my 11 year old granddaughter. I went with the 243 and all went great! We practiced several times at the range with a life size deer target prior to season. Once season was here she felt confident. Two shots =2 bucks. I was a proud grandfather.

Awesome!

The main thing is to teach them how to shoot with a rifle that fits them. Then turn them loose with a BB gun and let them shoot every day all they want. Both of mine killed a half dozen deer apiece and no telling how many hogs with a little Sako 22 Hornet I’ve had forever. Neck shots only at less than 150 yards on deer.The youngest is still a little guy at 12 and shoots a compact Ruger in 7-08. He really likes that little rifle and so do I. Surprisingly low recoil from a rifle that light.

I think I asked you the same thing a few weeks back, sorry about that. My memory isn’t what it used to be, unfortunately.

I have killed many deer, white tail, axis, fallow, and sika with a .222 and a .223. So don't say it is inadequate, however, I was not a beginner child. I learned to shoot with a Marlin 336C in .35 Rem and that is what I killed my first deer with as a boy. Sighting it in was not fun, but it was all we had (for several years). When I was 12 or so we traded a cow for a model 70 Winchester in .243. I hate shooting it still today, kicks worse than just about anything else I own.

243 all day long

So, little girls

243 is a a great rifle for whitetail and that is what my son shot most of his deer with growing up. I recently acquired a 350 legend and its quoted as having 20% less recoil than a 243 with similar if not slightly better than a 30-30. It is a sweet shooting rifle with very mil recoil and I plan on using it for my grandson's first deer rifle.

I've always thought the perfect deer caliber for kids would be a 7mm TCU rifle. It's a 223 case with the neck expanded to .284". I've shot it for years in a 14 inch Contender.

A 6BR rifle would be great too........also two old calibers, the 300 Savage and the 35 Rem.

I just dug out my little 30/30 lee loader. I was just thinking about the 300 blk and how perfect it seems to be, then I remembered all the load data for 30/30 that comes with the lee loader. Much of it is at or below 300 blackout, all the dipper loads are pretty much at or even below starting loads.

Run the 110 grain barnes on top of 1.9 cc of almost any ball rifle powder you could find, in a 30/30 cartridge case, will give you a very mild load for sure. I think it lists winchester 748 with a 110 grain bullet at between 2,000 and 2,100 fps. That should do it. But you can’t load them in the tube.

I never got around to hand loading. Just no time, no primers, etc. Might be time to make time lol.

I started with a .243 Remington 700 and a 4X Weaver when I was 6. That gun was my dad's and before that my grandad's. I shot 100gr core-lokts and never had a deer or a pig go more than 50yds. When I have kids, that is the rifle they will start on and I wouldn't think twice on it.

In my opinion a .243 or 7mm-08 is the way to go.

One of the reasons why the 300BLK is so good for young or recoil sensative shooters is the lack of noise. Yes, still loud if you are not suppressed, but an unsupressed 300BLK will be quieter and have less concussion than 30-30, 243, 223, etc. Much less powder, and it burns completely in all but the shortest SBR's. I load 18.something grains of 300MP (a fast burning pistol powder) under a 125 gr bullet for 2200fps in a 16" barrel. This is near max. For comparison, Hodgdon's starting loads are almost all in the 30-35 grains of powder, and their max powder listing is 38 gr, depending on which powder you choose. A lot of young shooters are more scared of the concussion and noise than they are the actual push of the recoil. .243, 30-30, and .223 don't really have any kick, yet a lot of people are scared of them. It's the noise and the concussion of the blast.

That is crazy. It is crazy how powders work in different cartridges. There are 30-30 loads laying down way more power than that, yet the same pistol powder i would be afraid to load in a 30-30 at all. What do i know.

All i do know is pistol powder make some rifles go boom

7mm-08 best in my opinion

Most of us know that pretty much any caliber will kill a deer IN THE RIGHT SITUATION FOR THAT CALIBER. A .223 will certainly kill a deer but you have a little less room for error than with a .243. A .243 has a little more bone punching ability say if you hit a shoulder or something. Go up in bullet weight to something like a 117 gr. .25-06 or a 130 gr. .270 or a 139 gr 7mm-08 and you add a significant amount of recoil.

I handload a 100 gr. Round for my .25-06 that is basically the same speed as a 100 gr. from a .243. Between that load and an actual .243 me and my kids combined have probably killed about 30 deer and hogs. The longest track has been right around 80 yards.

A .243 is light enough recoil that kids can develop good marksmanship yet has PLENTY of power to kill deer and hogs as long as you're within 200 yards (which is plenty far enough for a kid to be shooting). They can always step up to a bigger gun later if they so choose but in my experience a kid with a .243 that has been taught well is a GREAT combination for success.

Blacksnake, what did you end up doing?

I have quite a few different calibers, actually a lot of different calibers, and they have all taken deer, elk, antelope and pigs. Also African game. If close I use my open sighted 30 30. But, I generally get out my 30-06 that has performed on 3 different continents for everything but rabbits and turkeys.

7mm-08 120grain is a good combo

Without reading the rest of the posts, I am of the opinion that a .223 is a little light for deer anyway and not sure I would put one in the hands of a novice. But I know it is done often, including by several of my nephews, and they shot deer dead.

I would suggest a .243 with a wood stock for a little added weight. Academy sells the Mossberg Bantom Patriot with a wood stock in .243 which is what I bought my kids when they were 9(boy) and 12(girl) . It has been a fantastic rifle and is the only rifle we use nowadays. Very little recoil.

Also, and I hope you read this part, when my son was 9 we practiced with Hornady SST reduced recoil. I HIGHLY suggest using these for practice. Replace them with whatever you want to kill with when you get into the stand and they will never know the difference. I found that Power Points shot to the same spot so that's what we went with. We actually did shoot one deer with the reduced recoil stuff and while the old buck did expire I probably wouldn't do it again. Maybe on a small doe from close range.

Most all mentioned are low recoil. Took my Grandson out this year for the first time . He is 7. Had him out 3 times . Mostly to get him use to what happens out there . The hunt itself . I knew he wasn’t ready to shoot a deer . He has a BB gun and has been with that for 2 years . He had a great time every time I took him out . He watched me shoot a doe and really enjoyed it . I let him target practice with a 6.5 Grendel howa mini action . He needs more practice at this point . I am hoping year he can shoot his first deer. My biggest concern is not him shooting a deer but learning safety and having fun . The last thing you want is far them to have a bad experience. A 223 will easily take a deer . My experience. Still like the grendel more . The howa is cheap and very accurate. Good luck with the Grandkids and have lots of patience.

I'm 50, I have killed at least 20 deer with a .223 and have never lost one (all within 220 yds) I have shot around 10 - 15 with 30-06 and have hit and lost 3 of those. I love my Rem. Model 7 .223 I call it the "Grim Reaper". Just what I like and what I am confident in.

30-378 is what you’re looking for.