Texas Hunting Forum
GW Search Question
Posted By: ouixch
GW Search Question - 08/03/09 04:11 AM
So I have always been curious about this, how does the 4th Amendment affect GW's authority? The laws say that a game warden can essentially check and inspect anything having to do with hunting/fishing. This is in direct contradiction to how LEOs can respond, a police officer can't pull you over and search your car simply because he feels like it. There has to be a warrant or substantial immediate evidence to indicate that you are doing something illegal, and if they find something outside the scope of the warrant it is inadmissable as evidence. So a game warden that inspected a cooler and found marijuana, that would seem to be outside of his authority to search for game violations. I guess the more specific question I have is about private property, a police officer cannot come into your residence without your permission, unless he has a warrant or has an extraordinary circumstance, how then can a GW enter private property without permission to inspect what people are doing if there is no obvious illegal activity present?
Posted By: soonerdg
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 04:33 AM
A game warden still has to have a warrant or probable cause to search your private property. If he has probable cause to search your cooler and finds dope then it is admissable. The don't have any special authority that other LEOs don't have.
Posted By: fowlplayr
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 04:33 AM
In a nutshell, if a GW believes that you have been hunting/fishing, that is all the probable cause he needs to engage you. In addition, GW's have been given the jurisdiction to enforce other state laws.
Posted By: duckhead
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 04:34 AM
I have been told simply they are peace officers also.Can give you a seat belt ticket.
Posted By: JCB
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 05:00 AM
Quote:
I have been told simply they are peace officers also.Can give you a seat belt ticket.
Yep! Lady we use to lease from got a speeding ticket from a Game Warden!
Posted By: ouixch
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 05:04 AM
Quote:
A game warden still has to have a warrant or probable cause to search your private property. If he has probable cause to search your cooler and finds dope then it is admissable. The don't have any special authority that other LEOs don't have.
So can he enter my private property without my permission?
Posted By: mbavo
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 05:29 AM
yes he can
Posted By: ouixch
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 05:45 AM
I guarantee you there is a limit to when and what he can search. If you live out in the country, I feel quite sure a GW cannot just decide he is going to search your house if you are dove hunting in the back yard. I'm curious if there has been a court case that has defined the scope of the searches allowed.
Two years ago, we were dove hunting at my buddies place. A GW opened the gate, came onto the property and ran up to the women rudely demanding "where are they", and proceeded to drive across the pasture and yell at us. He told me that he was going to search my truck, and I informed him without a warrant he was not going to search my truck. I would happily allow him to inspect my license, shotgun, and cooler if he wanted. He ended up giving a ticket to my buddy's brother for something (I forget what) and was apparently satiated with that, and left me alone. I understand that he is allowed to verify that people are obeying the hunting/fishing laws, but that does not give him the authority to search whatever he feels like. I have had similar experiences with police officers when I was younger, I assume they thought I was stupid and wouldn't object to an illegal search, they were wrong.
Posted By: jodster
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 06:18 AM
I was told police can't search your car without permission or a warrant, but can hold you ? hours until they get one. Also heard Gw has more power then police and detain you as long as he wants until police arrive.
Posted By: ouixch
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 06:30 AM
Police can hold you til they get a warrant, but there has to be reason for one. Going 10mph over the speed limit isn't reason to justify a warrant. And I won't dispute that a GW can detain you til police arrive, but there is a boundary to what he is allowed to search without any probable cause of wrongdoing.
Posted By: Skinner0_2
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 06:38 AM
Quote:
In a nutshell, if a GW believes that you have been hunting/fishing, that is all the probable cause he needs to engage you. In addition, GW's have been given the jurisdiction to enforce other state laws.
BINGO Thats exactly right, and anyone dumb enough to stash there stash in a cooler where the law is drawn to like flys to crap, deserves getting busted. Skinner
Posted By: robbf213
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 06:50 AM
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pw.toc.htmSections 12.102, 12,103 and 12.104 answer all your questions.
Posted By: TPACK
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 07:07 AM
SATIATED----Am I the only one that had to look up the definition of this word?? Be honest !!!
sa·ti·ate (ssh-t)
tr.v. sa·ti·at·ed, sa·ti·at·ing, sa·ti·ates
1. To satisfy (an appetite or desire) fully.
2. To satisfy to excess.
adj. (-t)
Filled to satisfaction.
Posted By: ouixch
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 07:15 AM
Thank you robb213, it confirmed most of what I thought.
Essentially a game warden can come on your land and check your license and gun if he wants to. He CANNOT search any property (car or house) without a reasonable suspicion that some sort of unlawful taking of wildlife has taken place, and that it is hidden there:
"A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken."
The state of Texas is also liable for any violation of these laws, and civil suit can be brought to settle the matter. Essentially game wardens have the same rules as police for search and seizure, except that they can come on your land and ask to see your hunting license if they see you hunting.
Posted By: chouse
Re: GW Search Question - 08/03/09 07:27 AM
The game warden has come on to our place before, he was asked how he got access to the place and he said dont worry about it, it wasnt our business to know. He checked our licenses and left.
Posted By: Stoney
Re: GW Search Question - 08/04/09 02:15 AM
Last year we had 2 young GW's come to camp about 8:30 PM whilewe were eating dinner. We have 12 guys on the place and all were in camp either cooking or eating. GW's searched every cooler, all refrigerators(3), all vehicles and inside our 3 houses and barn. Found nothing and seemed a little ticked. Then they asked for licenses, everyone had one. One of the younger guy's,late 20's, didn't have hid hunter safety card on him and it wasn't on his license. They wrote him a ticket for hunting without it even though he had shot nothing, was never asked if he was hunting, and was in camp cooking steaks. It took him a a couple of phone calls but he finally got the ticket dropped. I think we are so isolated they just didn't want to leave without some kind of violation. But they did search away.
Posted By: helomech
Re: GW Search Question - 08/04/09 02:17 AM
Not searching my house without a warrant. I will treat it exactly like any other breaking and entering.
Posted By: ouixch
Re: GW Search Question - 08/04/09 05:05 AM
I will never allow any of my property to be searched without a warrant. I do not break the law, but under no circumstance will I ever allow the government or to have the latitude to do something they are not constitutionally allowed to do.
Posted By: fowlplayr
Re: GW Search Question - 08/04/09 05:21 AM
Quote:
I will never allow any of my property to be searched without a warrant. I do not break the law, but under no circumstance will I ever allow the government or to have the latitude to do something they are not constitutionally allowed to do.
Define "property". 
Posted By: scattergun
Re: GW Search Question - 08/04/09 05:21 AM
Quote:
So I have always been curious about this, how does the 4th Amendment affect GW's authority? The laws say that a game warden can essentially check and inspect anything having to do with hunting/fishing. This is in direct contradiction to how LEOs can respond, a police officer can't pull you over and search your car simply because he feels like it. There has to be a warrant or substantial immediate evidence to indicate that you are doing something illegal, and if they find something outside the scope of the warrant it is inadmissable as evidence. So a game warden that inspected a cooler and found marijuana, that would seem to be outside of his authority to search for game violations. I guess the more specific question I have is about private property, a police officer cannot come into your residence without your permission, unless he has a warrant or has an extraordinary circumstance, how then can a GW enter private property without permission to inspect what people are doing if there is no obvious illegal activity present?
They do pretty much anything they want to. Step over the line frequently but you won't beat it unless you take it to a higher court because the JP's and county judges love them. I'll just keep my opinion of them to myself on this forum.