Amen

His last sentence, Amen. Often times I feel we've all been caught up in the "mystical stag" mantra of QDM that we forget the real reason we go in the field in the first place.

Ted can be a little over the top sometimes, but I tend to agree with most of what he says

Absolutely. So long as a person buys a license, obeys bag limits, and consumes the resource, more power to them harvesting whatever they like.

We should shoot all the young deer we see, then ask everybody “why don’t we have any big deer?”

Psst! It's not about big deer but keeping a balanced sex ratio.

He didn’t say anything about HF/LF or .223 so we still good....

Awesome. Let’s shoot young, under age, & 1st year bucks AND does. Brilliant! Muh freezer!

I am standing by for the belt fed meme-gun that Maximus has.

There is a disdain for us common folk among a few of the elitists in the sport. For instance only a "citiot" would prefer to hunt and eat small game over an occasional and normally unsuccessful deer hunt. Them citiots just shooting and blasting at everything...

Cottontails and crappies are where it's at. If I am lucky enough to stumble across a tender yearling buck when I am shooting cottontails with my humble russian single shot, i keep a slug between the fingers.

. As pappy once said: i pay for my Gov. issued food stamps...

Wanna know why your deer hunts are “normally unsuccessful”?

I appreciate your service.

I must agree with uncle Ted. I try to shoot mature animals, but way too many times a barely legal, 2 yr old, 8 point will jump from my place to the neighbors and BOOM, down he goes. I sometimes feel frustrated, but it is legal, and I assume he has a license and every right to shoot it, so there is no need to get angry.

But if he’s not quite legal (besides being entirely too young to shoot), how many people will shoot him? I maintain that thousands of illegal bucks are shot & the shooter
1). doesnt even know about ARs
2). never gets a ticket

See here’s where our philosophies diverge.

You consider yourself lucky if you can come across a yearling buck that’s barely legal. I consider myself lucky if I come across a big mature buck.

That’s why I’ll be looking at all kinds of deer tomorrow, literally dozens, that you would consider yourself lucky to see (just 1). I see that you still have no concept of herd management or desire to improve the herd.

What if bucks didn't have antlers? Would we still then be wanting to shoot old mature bucks? Me personally I pass on any buck that looks immature, but my very first deer when I was 9 was a button buck we thought was a young doe. Second buck at age 10 was a 9 point 3-1/2 year old. I thought it was huge and it ingrained the "bigger is better" when it comes to antlers in me.
Now as I'm reaching my 40's and have witnessed the explosion of hunting from the early 90's until now, and have a 3 year old who I'm getting ready to begin grooming into the hunting world, I've come to realize I can't eat antlers, but there's no reason to shoot the fork horn when there are plenty of doe around. Now when that forkhorn steps out in front of my kiddo you bet I'm gonna let her take it. If I have a friend who's never hunted or shot a deer go with me, you bet that fork horn's fair game!

To be completely honest, I probably stumble across a group of does every time I squirrel hunt. I just wanted to see those memes.

But I dont have anything against anybody that has taken a game animal legally, ever.

Edit- The level of savagery in these memes was marginal at best. You are going soft.

As a newbie I too was unimpressed. I have seem more savagery from my grandmas facebook memes.

Can you send me some of your grandmas memes?

Awesome, brah. Take them both hunting, shoot all the young bucks, then in a couple of years when your kid asks you where are all the big deer, you can tell her that she shot them a couple of years ago.

I've heard this type of attitude called "eating from your own plate." Far too many people can never stay focused on what's sitting on their own plate but instead, stay worried about what everyone else is eating.

Laid Back, Laid Over, whatever your name is this week, what you mis-name as “elite-ism”, is really just hard work, constant feeding, selective hunting, patience, & management. But you wouldn’t know anything about any of that. It’s easier to just call hunters like that “elitist”.

But I hope you get a good rabbit this deer season.

Tred Barta said ever animal he shot was a trophy in his eyes, no matter the number of points or size.

Probably because he is actually doing real hunting .... the kind that doesn't involve feeders and game cameras that let him know exactly where all the deer area going to be and when LOL

I agree with Ted on this one... deer snobs are worse than religious fanatics. but but, it's called herd management! but but big bucks! but but you shouldn't! Everyone always thinks they know what's best ....that's how we ended up with big government.... people thinking they know what's best and that that it's their right to force 'what's best' on everyone else.

There's that QDM mindset. Don't worry, I bought the books, I sat through 4 years of it in college. Been there, done that. Shoot what you want, just don't shoot them all.

You need to have some flexibility as to judgement. We are all not endowed with access to vast superior hunting grounds. I have 160 acres surrounded with low fence hunted land. I try to encourage my family to hold out for mature bucks. A minimum of 8 points or better. However I do want to ensure my family members who have the desire maintain enthusiasm and if I hold firm to this standard some will never shoot a buck with there limited hunting access time. Shooting a doe no matter how frequent does not satisfy the nostalgia taking that horned trophy. After 3 years of failing to get tht mature buck I suggested my grandson take a noble but young 6. I hate to admit such a horrible transgression here but making sure my grandson wants to return this year to share my passion is worth the disdain I expect some will have for me but so be it!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you allow him to take a sub 160” deer!!! Congrats to your grandson! A trophy is different to everyone. If the “citiots” and “Dang DFW hunters” stop making fun or passing judgement on guys that shoot less than 4-1/2 year old more than 10 pt deer, I might actually stop making fun of their bro trucks and their wearing head to toe camo in town and their box blinds. Probably not but oh well lol!

^ that is what the internet does. You should not feel even the slightest tinge of guilt when your grandson shoots his first anything and should not have any stress for the opinions of strangers.

And they are strangers. People put filters on their life in social media. You might feel connected to these people and I do too in my short time in this forum. But you don't really know them.

Just like fishing. You start them off on sunfish and if they catch some legal bass and catfish you let them take them home too.

I got lucky with my youngest, her first bass was larger than my very biggest bass and she let it go

Somebody, somewhere is reading all these posts & realizing that they need a HF if they ever wanna have nice deer.

Hopefully it’s right next to one of these small acreage, shoot-any-deer-in-sight jerks.

Then we can hear them piss & moan “I never see any deer any more since my neighbor HF me out”.

In Texas deer hunting, the lowest common denominator is awful low. & common.

I think the point is being missed or won’t be accepted; I know a ton of hunters that really don’t care about rack size. They are just as much “sportsman” as anybody on this site.

You would have an excellent point, if it stopped there. But it doesn’t stop there. You forgot the part where you impose your ideas on others. You expect everyone to have the same goals, means, and expectations as you. That’s not only unrealistic, but a bit self-centered.

There’s a happy medium to be had here. Something between kill ‘em all and kill only booners. At the core of that middle ground lies conservation and understanding. Without conservation, nobody wins. Without understanding, you will always have two separate groups. As long as there’s two separate groups, advancing or preserving our more important rights will be difficult. You know, rights such as hunting and whatnot.

Preserving our right to hunt should be at the forefront of our little outdoor oriented minds. If you have any desire to do your part in preserving that right, I highly recommend that you heed the fact that the general public doesn’t give two squirts of cat crap about antler quality. They care that the animals are plentiful, healthy, dispatched of humanely, and put to proper use. I fully support you in your quest of bigger deer, and I don’t care if you feed the tough old hams to your dogs. But plenty of people do care, and they have plenty of say in the future of hunting, be it for meat, sport, or trophy. All I ask is that you act accordingly.

Ding ding we have a winner! As I said before, AMEN!

Then there is the misconception that a hunter who would be happy to shoot a spike or a doe is just a trigger happy guy that wants to kill everything.

I've only killed a couple of cottontails this year. I bring the single shot when i go crappie fishing because sometimes i jump a cottontail by the creek.

What can i say, crappie eat better than either cottontails OR deer, and more plentiful than either. When the crappie in the creeks stop biting, i will begin hunting in earnest

So I can’t say anything of other hunters, but your asking me to be ok with what they do? That’s kinda self centered a bit. I’ll continue to have my opinions & voice them as I see fit. I will also continue to look down on idiots who live by “if it’s brown, it’s down” mantra.

I will also have to disagree with you that these people care about “plenty, healthy, etc”. All they care about is filling their freezer or shooting any legal deer.

Things i learned on HF...
Damn, i raised my kids wrong... Tis all about the Big Buck$...

Calm down, and reread what I wrote. As it is, your response doesn’t make a lick of sense as it relates to what I’ve said. I wasn’t attacking you. Just making a few points.

Slow down. Try again. We’ll go from there.

For starters, the “general public” is not a reference to hunters only.

maximus, what would you say if the "people" decided that your high fence, that keeps the "people's" free-range (well, used to be free-range until you high fenced them in) animals from going wherever they wanted to go was illegal? Yes, you have, or the land owner has, the right to put up a high fence. But, since you don't actually own the free range animals, technically, you shouldn't be allowed to stop their movements. I will add that when you built the high fence you ensured all of the "state's" animals were off of your property, and introduced animals you bought from the trophy farms, or exotics that weren't here naturally, then you should be ok.

I don't think your argument that "let's high fence out all of the brown it's down idiots" is the answer to those with differing opinions from yours...

And, here's why -- I don't really have an issue with high fences now. But, if everyone starts doing what you are proposing, I would have a huge issue with them - since the native free range animals would no longer be free range. I think the majority of hunters probably would as well, since it would greatly affect the "natural balance" of our lands. I don't think it's going to happen, and pray that it doesn't.

Lotsa straw men getting beat up here.

It’s not about “big”’bucks, it’s about mature deer & carrying capacity.

Sorry (not sorry) I still look down on “hunters” who are focused on their freezer & not management.

“Awesome 2 year old 6 point, bro!”

Said every boomer ever.

Real hunting is with nothing but your bare hands, while wearing a loincloth & living in a cave (til Monday when you have to get back to your job in downtown Dallas).

I'd like to be the first to thank you for using your time, money and effort to manage & improve something you don't own that helps everyone around you.

Keep up the good work

My first deer was a spike, my son's first deer was a 3 point. I couldn't tell you what they looked like but I bet I'll never forget the way I felt or the smile that was on my boy's face. What I do once I get inside my gate is my business. I like this post.

Texas parks and wildlife sets the bag limits and restrictions on size and sex of legal deer. Each landowner has the right to their own management practices. But if it's legal to shoot a doe or spike. Then there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with it. I cannot really manage a deer heard on my measly 131 acres, but I just enjoy sitting in the stand and watching. But if one of my grandchildren want to shoot a spike or doe, or 14" spread young buck, I will act and probably be more excited than they are. I will not impose the restrictions I put on myself, to maybe curb their desire to be in the outdoors, and enjoy Gods great blessings he has given us.

I have been deer hunting seriously for about 3 years. Last year I let a beautiful young chocolate horned 10 point walk because of all the reading I do about "let them get old" etc. 20 minutes later from the direction he walked off I heard the familiar boom...whomp from the neighbor. We hunt about 600 acres of family land just North of the metromess, to me if everyone in Denton county is not thinking the same thing as I was, "oh he is young let him walk", it is not really worth it. I ended up shooting a bigger bodied nice to me 8 point but I never posted a picture here because of the ridicule that comes to those who shoot a younger deer. I have now shot two 3 year old deer in my 3 years of hunting and they were delicious which is our main focus. I mentioned I might try to wait for an older deer this year to my wife and her response was "if you get a chance to take a legal deer you need to". She said "we have newly married kids and a few families at church that need food some times and if we have plenty of meat we can share". We are not poor and can buy meat but being able to share venison and fish that we kill or catch and eggs from our chickens and vegetables from the garden is deeply satisfying. I say if you are harvesting whatever you decide to, licensed and within the limits of the law then go for it and be grateful. Biblically it is the reason all of the bounty of this really awesome Earth is here, for us!!

Amen to that.

Furthermore, for the management of a deer herd, why is it bad to shoot a spike?

I understand why you at least let a nice buck mature before you take him, so he has time to pass his genes. But saving your tag for a nice buck every year doesn't make sense. If we only kept the nicest bass, the management plan would backfire.

I think Fork would have produced a world record by now if they would tighten up the slot some more. A 24" bass is not big or uncommon in Fork, and there are so many anglers hitting it so hard for that trophy of a lifetime. It's a successful management plan from the standpoint of the numbers of big bass, but we'll never see another record unless they tighten it up a little bit. The 16" and under rule makes sense though, and those little bass eat better anyway and you can fry them up whole.

With deer, why don't we encourage people to take spikes? Why would you hunt for years and pass on everything you see? It makes more sense to me that you would like to see people culling the weak genes.

I take it you've never heard of antler restrictions.

One of your two legal bucks in a single AR county must have at least one unbranched antler, or you could take 2 bucks with an unbranched antler in the same county.
Then go to a different AR county & kill your 13" + branched antlered buck, or, take another unbranched antler buck.

So killing unbranched bucks is encouraged.

but seems pretty shameful to some in the forum.

If you let what people say on the interwebz affect your happiness or life decisions in the least little bit, you need to unplug & disconnect.

Life is way too short.
In the blink of an eye everything can change, no one is guaranteed the next hunt or deer.

If you want to kill any legal deer there is no reason to pass it up, the deer isn't guaranteed another day either, neighbors, hit by car, hung up in fence, predator, sickness or injury.

It is the liberal left mindset that wants to control what others do, be it by enacting new laws & regulations, or by use of social pressures if what they wish to condemn or control is deemed legal.

Shoot whatever legal deer you want and be happy.
I hope every kid that goes deer hunting has a huge smile in the picture of whatever deer they kill.


Vealison is the best.

^ i agree with you on every point there.

That hit by a car thing really happens! I had a great one that I let walk twice only to see him laying dead in a ditch for chasing a doe in the middle of the night.

Now there you go opening that can of worms, even though you're probably spot on.

One day the non-hunting majority is going to walk in on us and ask, "You call this hunting?"

It'd be nice if some of the "management-minded" people in this thread would look down on poachers and other violators who ruin our state's resources, rather than others who hunt within the law (taking deer legally, regardless of their reasons). It's ridiculous to put those who have motives other than your's into the "brown and down" category. Please stop trying to impose your opinions and practices on others and put that energy into something more productive.

Common ground can be found in that most trophy/sport hunters and meat/opportunity hunters have a respect for the game they pursue and the laws that protect our resources. Surely both groups want there to be animals for themselves as well as future generations to enjoy and have a dislike for those that operate outside the law and jeopardize our hunting heritage.

A diverse group of hunters taking a diverse group of deer is good for the overall population. I can't help but think if that were to shift to only mature (and by extension, dominant) bucks being hunted/killed, there would be fewer and fewer opportunities at mature deer each passing year. This would likely also result in more 'inferior' bucks successfully mating due to the decreased competition which would also be detrimental to the herd. Another possibility is a significant growth in population due to fewer deer killed by hunters, spreading resources thin and an overall decrease in quality. Not to mention more regulation...who decides what's a mature, management, or cull, when, where, etc?

Yeah, I'm not a boomer. I'm Gen X. Thanks for playing though.



Said no one who ever successfully killed an animal.