Question- Trophy buck shot but not found......

Question- One of our hunters on our lease shot a huge 8 point (possibly 9, but the largest 8/9 point I have ever seen on camera) a week ago. We searched that night, and hours later we found it bedded down with the FLIR thermal scope and it jumped the buck. The right shoulder was broken, and blood poured out of him in the thermal scope when he got up slow and limped off, never to be found. He now has another buck on camera he wants to shoot. So, majority of our lease members think the 8 point he shot (and killed, but not recovered) was his buck for the year. I know legally he can kill another buck, and that's not the question. But ethically on a lease that is management minded, should he be able to kill another buck? What policies or unwritten rules do you have on your lease for situations like this? (This place about 10 years ago killed a 207 B&C, and 10 hunters were on it and only allowed 4 big bucks for the property on an allotment)

Drawing blood is the standard on every lease or package hunt I have been on. One and done.

He needs to reassess his equipment and shot placement.

If there is no existing rule preventing a second try after not recovering his first try he gets to have a second go.

I would say he is done, but that's just my opinion/approach. I would certainly not shoot another buck under those circumstances. But it's gonna be very problematic to implement a new rule after the fact. That should be done prior to season. He will have every reason to be upset if he wants to be (which, apparently, he does).

Good luck!

Got no problem with one and done. The after the fact part bothers me.

We have a drawn blood provision in the rules on our place. Been there over a decade because of this exact reason. I'd tell him he's killed his buck and to watch for vultures to recover the rack.

needs to be defined before, I can see both sides.

Agreement in our group would be He burned his Trophy Tag for the year and is done. Mature trophies are a finite resource, at least on our place.

And in case it's helpful, often, but not always, a good tracking dog can bay up a wounded buck so another shot can be put in him. Not trying to Monday Morning quarterback, just in case it is helpful down the road for y'all or someone reading the post. Sucks to lose a buck like that.

One and done. Better luck next year.

We have basically the same rule in place on the lease I am on. I shot a buck, long story, but could not find it after a 3 hour search that night, and all day the next morning. That is considered my 1 "shooter" buck for this season.
Actually our rule is this... everybody can take 1 "shooter". Once you have taken yours, you can not shoot another unless all 6 hunters have shot one also. That has never happened in the 7 years that I've been on this lease.

On a paid hunt , blood equals he is yours. Shouldn't be any different on a lease

This rule would need to be in place before the season otherwise it would hard to enforce.

He's done in my opinion. Just curious what caliber is he shooting. If he was that hurt with blood pouring out he didnt go far.

I agree, he's done.

What caliber and bullet?

Draw blood it's a kill. I agree with others that he is done.

This - if there was no blood and no sign the deer was hit then that is a different story. But knowing it was hit that is his trophy. That is pretty standard procedure on most leases with trophies but NP is right - those rules should be in place prior to the season -

We would also have brought in dogs - they have found several of our trophies that were wounded

Exactly!

And how many times has he fired the rifle at a target since last season.

I personally would not feel right about going after another buck and I have even enforced this rule upon myself with doe the year I lost one. Herd quality and numbers vary from property to property and year to year but sometimes rules need to be in place for such instances.

If all the other hunters on your place agree he is done it sounds like the majority has spoken.

Like others have said he is done for the season, in my opinion. It's just as dead weather you recover it or not.

If you guys are allowed management deer, it would be a nice gesture to let him shoot a nice one. I feel like all the others in that he's shot his trophy.

why didn't yall bring in dogs to track? Would have found him with that kind of blood trail

That's my rule, and the outfitters I hunt with.

This^^^^^^

It's just a deer and he didn't get his. If it were a kid I'd tell him he's done shooting. A grown man with no set rule needs to make his own decision.

Y'all killed a 207" deer in Stephens county? I want to see the pictures of that one.

He done.

Sounds like a case where some friendly hunter coaching from the lease mamma's needed. Tell him to focus on the future.

I can't add much here, but he absolutely should be done. However, if that rule wasn't already in place you'll have to rely on his good will and cooperation IMO. I don't know the guy, but maybe if you and the other hunters sit down with him and express your wishes he'll agree. Stranger things have happened.
Incidentally, by talk to him I don't mean a blanket party.

Done under these circumstances for sure. Sorry, next year.

as much as I hate it I agree. It should have been in writing.

If it were me I'd consider myself done with an exception of a giant. I'd keep hunting but if the top dog showed up he'd be dead. I don't think anyone would fault him if he showed up with a 208" deer. If y'all did cry about it somethings wrong with the group you have on the lease.

Deer hunting is supposed to be about fun. There are too many guys that take it too seriously. I have been in a fistfight over a poker game in camp when I was 17, I believe deer camp is for fun and everyone shouldn't take it so seriously unless they call an old boy from Odessa a cheater when he's holding a full boat and calls with all his machine shop money.

It needs to be 'policy' (well understood by everyone BEFORE the season starts).

But personally, I'd say he has burned his tag...unless it was known (without doubt) that only a superficial wound was inflicted.

Sounds like a mortal wound was the case here.

I have always used a self imposed policy of burning a tag anytime I have drawn blood, (Doe or Buck). I have failed to recover very few deer in my 47 years of hunting (and most of that was bowhunting). But...when that has happened, I ALWAYS tear up a tag.

Though I agree with you in spirit, it tends to get serious when you spend thousands of dollars and hours or even years of time to develop quality deer and improve the land. Even more so as a landowner it becomes important.

I have to tell myself every year to chill out and have fun because I get stressed about making the right decisions.

If it's in writing or a known lease policy, he's done. As many have said if it was me, I would be done given I made a clearly fatal shot on the deer from the evidence you mentioned. I would find the deer or exhaust every effort doing so.

Blood and done!!!!

I'm in the one and done camp myself, as that's the way it is on our place too. I am very curious though, if there was blood pouring out of his shoulder, how was the buck not recovered? Do any of the neighbors have any tracking dogs?

[censored] happens let the guy kill the deer sounds like he's either lucky or putting the time into the spot... I would consider myself done for trophy bucks at least but even though I feel that way dont mean this other fella that pays for a lease just the same as me feels the same.. So why should my opinion over rule his when both are legal and really not gona hurt a thing. Live and let live

What would taking a mature deer out of a herd do to cripple management? The truth is if one lost and another shot truley has potential to mess with a management practice then there are to many hunters on the lease

Wondering what caliber was used. Case in point one of my great nephews (Junior in High school) shot a trophy deer he said last Saturday afternoon that ran off. He was using a 22-250. They found a small amount of blood and jumped the wounded deer up once but never found him. One of the other experienced hunters saw a big deer grazing for quite some time this afternoon from a distance that was hobbling along and in his opinion didn't think it was a fatal injury.

There is a understanding that we follow, and each hunter has a copy of the hunting guidelines. If you draw blood that is considered your buck. With that said every attempt is made to locate the buck to include a tracking dog. I have gone as far as hiring a helicopter to fly the area where the deer was shot and it was located.

I don't think that needs to be in the rules to enforce it, though it would probably be better if it was.

It should be a simple conversation for him to understand. Trophy bucks are are exception and if you take one out of the herd, whether you find him or not, he is lost for anyone else. So he counts as your trophy. If he shows back up on the trail cam alive, then we can re-evaluate.

If he doesn't accept that, then he might not be the type of hunter you want on your lease long term.

With all due respect I think you are missing the point. If one hunter is allowed to mortally wound a trophy buck and then go shoot another what happens when the next lease member does the same? Then it does affect the entire herd and ranch and lease. If there are no consequences then IMO it becomes a free for all. And this was not a case of he shot and was not sure if he hit the deer or not -

Spend a few thousand more and get on a lease with enough country that one extra deer won't destroy your whole management plan. Why would you get stressed over making a decision about which deer to kill?

The only time you should get upset or stressed at deer camp is if someone drinks all of your camp whiskey and doesn't replace it or at least call and tell you you're out.

I agree with this 100%

This is nothing to get upset over. Im curious how long have you guys been hunting together and has this ever happened before? With him or someone else on the lease? How was it handled.

Tell him how the other hunters feel and let him know that blood drawn counts as his buck. Tell him its not in the rules but you thought all hunters knew and understood that blood drawn counts as the hunters deer. Let him know that next year it will be in the rules and with that being said because it was not in the rules the decision is his to make whether or not to harvest another deer. I would think that it will take care of itself.

Let him buy another trophy tag. Same price as the yearly spot.

I too believe that it should be his trophy...BUT....if it's not a rule, if it was not stated as a lease rule prior to this occurring then I believe he has the right to expect to still get his trophy. This happened on a lease I was on in the past...guy shot two bucks, one of which I found 100yds from his blind in low grass, which he claimed he "must have missed" and ended up shooting three that year only tagging one. So I feel your pain and agree it should be his one and only but again without it being a current part of the rules then I think he gets to keep hunting.

That's much like the person who attempts to sue a manufacturer because the instructions didn't warn them of the obvious.

Good sportsmanship is always obvious.

For trivia a long time ago we asked TPWD about a scenario where a hunter shot a dove, knew he mortally killed it, but could not find it. The answer was legally he had to count the lost bird in his bag limit. We then asked the same question about a deer. Because of a different wording in the rules for big game, if a reasonable effort was made to locate the deer, he did not have to burn a tag or count it against his Deer bag limit. But it did go on to state that if the search went on for a day or two and the deer was later found it did have to be tagged, though it did not have to be eaten if spoiled.
http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/799706

Sounds like the situation given searching hours through the night with a FLIR thermal scope and losing the deer a second time and unable to be found was a reasonable effort. Legally he does not have to burn a tag, nor does it count against his bag limit, again legally.

Though I personally would question that it was the same deer as it would be unusual for any deer shot in the shoulder with a rifle or bow for that matter to be able to get up and walk after being bedded with that kind of injury for several hours.

But if for certain it was the same deer and it was a mortal wound. Ethically most would likely count it against their bag limit same as if found. To stay in good graces with fellow lease members, most hunters would want to count the lost Deer against their bag limit. Especially if many of the fellow lease members have not taken a buck this year. And as stated already most lease rules written and unwritten are going to count the lost deer same as a tagged deer. If there is not written rule addressing it and no prior unwritten agreement addressing it, he probably should be allowed to shoot another buck, though on many levels it would be in this hunters interest to voluntarly be done trophy hunting for the season.

As an example as a way to address it if there is no current rule. The lease manager next year with a new set of rules drawn up so to now include drawn blood could also decide one hunter will not be allowed to take a buck next season to offset extra buck taken this year. Guess who that would be if that person decided to stay on the lease.

I would say everyone failed because a dog wasn't brought in. I wouldn't shoot another unless it was a true giant but that's just me. I think y'all all need to have a sit down and make sure everyone is on the same page. And I don't know the situation but on most places a mature 8 is a cull! Y'all need to define "trophy" but it probably should be done after this season is over. Or take a vote now and majority rules and the ones that disagree can look for a new lease next year. Unless one of them is the head honcho and then I guess you be chit out of luck. But again with that amount of blood pouring out then I can't imagine not finding him. I guarantee a halfass tracking dog would have found him. A few hundred dollars on a dog isn't crap when considering all the other expenses,

Yes, that's what I said!! It was a topic of conversation by several of the hunters on our place. It was a non typical from what I hear, with points all over.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^

You will never hunt on our ranch lease.......

DITTO

It's just a deer.

Let him hunt tell him once in lifetime deer only 10 point or better something that would score 170 ish.if he shoots lesser than that good by! This way he can keep hunting. Sometimes rules too restrictive and do not promote hunting fun and bringing in new young hunters.

You can tell by the posts who actually puts in the time and money on their deer leases to manage for quality deer and who doesnt. To some deer hunting is a serious hobby, to others its how they make a living, and apparently to some it's "just" a deer...

Sounds fair to me and then put in the "new" rule after the season is over

8 point would not be shot for trophy on serious lease good kid deer we always use 10 or better . Keep it fun too much money ruins everything average joe should be able to hunt.

Really? Actually to some of us it's simply a matter of were the rules spelled out to the guy...I think sometime we "assume" that everyone "knows" the rules or they know what we are thinking etc when in reality they do not. If this is a "trophy" lease and the rules are spelled out then you follow them but based on the ops question I don't believe that's the case here and if it's not you can't change the rules midstream because it simply isn't the right thing to do. So for me...it's simply about doing what's right even if doing what's right hurts.

There are other animals to hunt besides deer.....

got to go 2 nice bucks last 20 min

I would inform him that blood was drawn and the buck counts as his trophy.
Explain that it's his, yours and every hunter on the ranch responsibility to place a lethal shot (quick kill) on any and all deer.
Inform him that this is the way it is and if he fills the need shoot any other buck other than a cull his lease will not be renewed.
Any ethical hunter should understand this. If he doesn't you don't want nor need him back anyway.

Sometimes even true hunters lose their way. Many young hunters never found it in the first place. If he is a true lifelong friend(you guys know what that is?), spike or 12 point, no rule--it's just deer. Money=opportunity=giant, enormous, buck on wall shot at 50 yards.

I like to hunt deer during deer season!

Wow

I have said this for years - there are different types of hunting and leases for different people with different goals. Much of that decision comes with where one is in their hunting life. In our case if we wound a trophy buck we bring in dogs and do everything in our power to find him.

Everyone has lost a deer and if u haven't ur time will come it's part of hunting I've seen them run with 223 243 308 7mm 300 win mag 338winmag 25-06 30-06 it happens but if I payed my dues on the lease then I will shoot my deer if it's not in the rulebook I signed

Debates like this is why I'm on a lease by myself and invite close family only to hunt with me. Cost a lot more than splitting a lease but my lease my rules no-one to argue with.

He'd be done with trophy on my place but like tlk said different hunters have different mindsets, that's clear from the wide range of opinions in this thread. Big mature deer aren't "just" deer to me. Some of y'all might have enough trophies to just keeping shooting them until you find one but I don't. Again though your definition of trophy and mine might be different.

All deer I have seen with a broken shoulder were recovered.

If the rule is not in place up front to all hunters, then it is strictly up to the hunter to kill another or not.

A. Have a good set of WRITTEN rules everyone has in a group email. (No splinter groups and Cliches).
B. Have a Grown Man, NO KIDS as a Strawboss who has enough Sack to (politely) enforce any issues. (Have the right management minded group and won't have any issues)
C. If your getting that worked up over a 8.
D. Have a spreadsheet showing the Money and Accounting, price per acre, camp supply's, improvements etc. (cuts the Sneaky out)

Few Gentle Musings...
How in world would someone not know if it was a 8 or a 9 before he sent it. He can spend the money and time on a place but can't acquire proper Glass to evaluate a Animal.
If this said Deer was at the Quality that the Gentleman said it was why as stated above would you not bring in a Dog.


Not beating this guy up or you Chad but if that animal was hit and you pushed him and got him up (you stated hours later), why be out at night stumbling around pushing him further with thermal imaging. Again I don't know the time frame, reaction of the animal or time between hit and push. If he was hit that hard, let him lay and come in the next day.

Hope the Animal is recovered and I would chalk it up of a little ....It all starts at the Top and Management. Good Luck

Yep. Simply ignunt to not back off and call a dog. Easy find for any worthwhile dog. And $400 or less is nothing to pay for a deer of that caliber. If the shooter wasn't all in for a dog you should want that slob off the lease anyway.

Hmm really nice to have the opportunity and a place with deer like this to hunt with your friends. We all know this can happen but I would be really embarrassed and apologize for the error. That was my deer and I blew it I'm hunting culls or doe rest of the season and get ready for next year.