Bad Call?

While out hunting this last weekend, I came across a rattler. This snake was gorgeous, was in about the 3.5 - 4 ft range in size.

I got out of the vehicle, took a good long look and a pic for the kiddos. Then I noticed he's not making a sound. I have already been advised the rattlers where I am hunting are doing what they are doing everywhere else they are having a pig problem. They are being quiet. I even went as far as tossing some pebbles at his head to see if he would. He stayed dead quiet.

Now this time I decided the snake was too pretty to kill. But I keep thinking about this: When the rattler is quiet, even when I'm messing with it purposely to get it to rattle, should this automatically put it on the hit list?

I don't think the snakes out here have an overwhelming population, and I was advised that it's up to my discretion on whether or not to kill them. On one hand, I didn't feel it was hurting anything at the time. On the other, I feel because it had alot of potential to do so being that quiet, maybe I should have.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

A dead rattler is better than a live rattler....I guess I am not very broadminded.

I would have killed it, on my property we kill every snake we see. Not really a big deal that you let him go.

Stay safe!

i would have killed it

From the Snake's point of view:

While out sunning this last weekend and not bothering anyone, a hunter crossed my path. This hunter was a pretty good size, and in about the 5.5 - 6 ft range.

I didn't pay too much attention, just took a good long look. Then I noticed he's not making a sound. I don't rattle anymore because I've found out that rattling can be hazardous to a snakes health when pigs are around. We are now being quiet, but then he even went as far as tossing some pebbles at my head to see if I would get excited. I stayed dead quiet, even though my first instinct was to move. My second instinct was to bite since I'm not bothering anyone. I'm not in a barn, the yard, or on the front porch, I was just sunning myself & minding my own business.

I finally decided the hunter wasn't worth messing with. But I keep thinking about this: When the hunter is bothering me by throwing rocks at me when I'm minding my own business, should this automatically put it on the hit list?

I don't think the hunters out here have an overwhelming population, and I was advised that it's up to my discretion as to whether or not to bite them. On one hand, I didn't feel it was hurting anything at the time. On the other, I feel because it had alot of potential to do so by throwing rocks, maybe I should have.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Let them go, they eat rats.

Rats are far more likely to pose a health risk than a snake.

Outstanding reply HnF.

If they aren't in camp, around a blind or feeder, most snakes (and hunters) get a pass from me.

Great response HnF!

Venomous snakes rarely get a pass from me. And one that didn't rattle would have been immediately snuffed. I've had too many close calls, and need all the warning I can get.

I'd like to be nice guy here BUT he would have been a dead snake if I saw him and would have been dinner

I don't believe rattlers don't rattle because of hogs.

....at least you plan on doing something with it! Hat band, belt, dinner - OK!




FWIW - I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but I think it's being looked at as a step up the evolutionary ladder. Brings up the question of whether a snake can have a "learned" response.

Don't over think simple things in life. Whether you had killed him or not is going to have little to no effect on this world. I would have killed him just to eat him. I let the small ones go so I can kill them when they're bigger.

choot'em

With my nine and six-year-olds running around, that's a dead snake.

Family land and leases I've hunted over the years have always had lots of youngsters running around. We were programmed to shoot venemous snakes on sight, regardless of where they lay. On a rock a mile from the barn today, under the porch a step away from striking someone tommorrow. Dead snake = good snake.

I don't either. I hunt a place with no hogs and some rattle, some don't. Some are aggressive, some are passive.

I catch em, play with em and let em go. I have killed a few in the past but most get a pass. Don't blame people for killing them, just don't see the need unless they are around the house or camp, and then I relocate most the time.

Sometimes snakes wont rattle for various reasons, cool weather, just fed, or just shed. If they are lethargic, they will take more provocation. I have caught 100's from dens on the Brazos river and other places, some get pizzed, just because your there and some come out of the hole between your legs and don't even say "hello".

As far as rattlers go, if I find one around the house or in a bad area, I will relocate it. Most snakes get that treatment but 2 where I live, Copperheads and Diamondback water snakes = instant trip to the morgue.

it's called culling : confused2: still haven't figured that one out yet

I will say I am partial to snakes. I've had a few as pets, starting with a type of red-tail boa that is now illegal to own. Got it as a hatchling and had it for quite some time. I've had other rand wild and store bought since as well.

My big concern here was what others have mentioned, and probably why I was so torn on the decision after the fact: my kids. I bring them with me pretty frequently. Thoughts of one of my children stepping on, and then getting bit by a silent rattler are what filled me with doubts about letting it live.

When I see the mixed answers here, it also makes me realize that I can kill every one I see if I want, but ultimately, I'm not going to be able to reduce their numbers low enough that I don't have to worry about it. Nor would I want to. I think I'll just work with the kiddos more on safety, do the obvious thing I should have done already, and make them wear guards if they are going to come tromping around with me.

I guess this means I'm going to have to lead by example and wear my guards more often though. Ugh. Damn things hold in enough heat to cook an egg on.

Snake boots are an alternative, and also more comfortable and more convenient, as well as good protection against grass burrs, cactus, and other thorny stuff.

Size 14 Double wide. I'll look, but I have my doubts about finding them. I can barely strap the snake guards I have on, I have the straps let out all the way and still a very tight fit.

That snakes don't rattle because of hogs is a MYTH. In Arizona, it is claimed they don't rattle because ranchers will kill them. The fact of the matter is that rattlesnakes do not always rattle. They never have. Just because they can rattle does not mean that they will rattle.

I don't think it's the e-ladder or learned. Each snake just has it's own personality. I've seen some that start rattling when you are still ten yards or more away and others that don't make a sound even if you're about to step on them.

Think Sneaky and...ah...well nobody around hear is all that quiet

You'll never convince me that a snake has the learning capacity to figure these things out. Maybe it's a genetic trait and the ones that rattle are being weeded out. I don't know, but I really don't think they aren't rattling because they saw their buddy get shot.

I don't either. "Genetic memory" and snakes teaching their young seems pretty far-fetched to me.

Classic.

It might make sense if a hog relied on its hearing, but it doesn't. A hog relies on its sense of smell, like a deer or a dog. If a hog wanted to kill a snake, it just has to sniff one up and kill it, which it could probably do from a pretty good distance.

If the "E" theory were to have some merit, I would give more credence to humans snuffing out the "rattlers" versus hogs. I know I would do my best to try to make that happen.

While I'll grant you that the hogs themselves are causing the problem is a bit far fetched, lets look into this further. I'm looking at it as a theory, not the answer. The wildlife biologist who has been working the area for many years, is the one who stated this theory to me. That, in my mind, will give it some amount of credibility as a theory due to the fact the biologist is holding the degree.

Snakes that were usually pretty good about letting their presence be known are now quiet. Lets say the biologist is already smart enough to realize that they are not always loud in the first place. Let's say the biologist is also smart enough to realize what different contributing factors could cause this snake to be quiet over loud. Biologist now has a rough baseline as to when or why snake should be sounding off.

Now with the arrival of population of hogs that is quickly getting larger, these snakes have seemingly changed their behavior. So now, there are a bunch of close calls with rattlers, that normally would not be, because normally the snakes would be loud, and let their position be known.

After almost getting nailed a few times, when this was almost never an issue, there come a realization that something has changed, but what? Well lets say 90% of the time before this population of hogs showed up the rattler sounded off at a good distance ( pulled that statistic from my arse, just as an example).Lets says a year after the arrival of these pigs this statistic has changed to 85%. Withing 5 years, well BS some more numbers and jump to the conclusion of 65% are sounding off normally, while the other 35% are being quietly.

Now start adding in population changes based on natural predation, and death. Birth rates of loud ones vs. quiet ones. And we are not talking a learned behavior here. We are talking about snakes that are genetically predispositioned to be loud vs. quiet. All of a sudden we have snakes that had a better chance to live long enough to breed because they were quiet, so they are the ones passing on this genetic trait, that eventually goes from a recessive trait, to a dominant trait.

Realistically, no the hogs didn't do it by themselves. Hell, it may not have anything to do with it. But if you look at it as the animals that are the biggest predator to these snakes (humans being the biggest), and the fact that we tend to go after the ones we hear, add in that supposedly the problematic pigs with high populations are doing the same thing. We have what would be a forced evolutionary response. Again, we are not talking about learned behavior here. We are talking about genetic traits. I'm not going to say I put a ton of faith into the theory, but according to the wildlife biologist I work with the most, it is becoming a widespread theory among alot of them. I'll jump on the bandwagon for a bit, at least until I see another one that makes more sense.

So if that's the theory I'm working off of, I should (in theory) be all for the culling of quiet rattlers, and want to leave only loud obnoxious ones behind yes?

Did this arsehole just try to give a biology, and evolution 101 lesson to a bunch of hunters? Yes he did other me, yes he did.

Might ask him what if the snakes were already not rattling before hogs were in the area?

Cliffs?

This is my bs post, you write 'em

You can't eat the rattles. Go eat a garter snake.


...as for more and more snakes not rattling, I think there are more and more people out there which increases the number of encounters and in most of those encounters the humans expect to hear a rattlesnake rattle.

What kind of rattler was it? The eastern and timber rattlers are very docile and will not rattle until they are pizzed off.... I moved a timber off the road and to the creek so it wouldn't get ran over and it never made a noise until the dog started barking at it... amazing looking snakes also and have no intension on hurting us... we are the intruders not them.

No idea what kind to be honest. I'd have to go look it up and get back with you.

I don't kill them anymore. When I was growing up as a kid around the Caprock area, a 2-3 foot rattlesnake was a small one. I remember and have some pics of 5+ foot snakes, big SOB's. Now, when you do see them, they are 2-3' at the biggest. They don't bother me and I don't bother them.

Navasot, it was a Western Diamondback.

That is odd. Was it glazed grey over its eyes?

Either way you gota watch out for the kiddos so don't think im bashing you for your decision.

agree, some rattle, some don't, most fat boys fart, some don't, it amazes' me how many big bad ars's dirty their drawers when they see a snake ANY KIND OF SNAKE

Navasot, no it's eyes were not glazed. Had a good size rattle for no bigger than he was, and his colors were so pristine, he must have just shed. He really was a beaut. Like I said, I let him go, just wasn't really sure if I should have. After everyone entering their input, and weighing my thoughts on it, I'm glad I did. He wasn't bothering anyone, and isn't likely to do so in the future. Just gotta teach the kids, and I guess I can deal with the chaps. Or I can take my chances with a bite. Hell, at my size, so long as I'm not allergic, I'd probably be ok. I know another hunter around my size who'd been bit, and he had almost no issues aside from some general swelling. Probably won't take my chances though.

REALLY? How do you cook them? What do they taste like? chicken?

Hell no they don't taste like a nasty chicken. They taste good. I just fry them. You live under a rock or something?

Snakes have different moods just like any other animal. Sometimes they rattle, sometimes they don't. Sometimes fish bite like crazy, sometimes you blank. Sometimes a cat will chase a laser all over the house for hours, sometimes they look at you like you're retarded for shaking a laser at them. Some of y'all are giving them too much credit by thinking a snake can learn something.

If it has a rattle I kill it whether it rattles or not. I like snakes. Had a few in aquariums over the years. But they weren't venomous. No venomous snake gets a pass from me.

My first pet snake was a rattler when I was a kid. Traded him in at the snake show for a beautiful coachwhip. That was my payment for skinning so many rattlers that day. Worked for me.

me 2

It it had been a snake it would have bit you on the @$$!

DRT if its somewhere in my path. If its out in the brush on the side of the road I would have probably have left it be.

Eh- I woulda left it. My spouse and I disagree on this one but If it isn't near any dwellings or the barn or pump house then why kill it? It kills mice and baby jackrabbits....jackrabbits eat the grass my cows want to eat so I'm cool with them helping out.

FWIW - I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but I think it's being looked at as a step up the evolutionary ladder. Brings up the question of whether a snake can have a "learned" response. [/quote]

I learned in the way overpriced Biology classes that they made em take to get my (science) degree....pretty much all aninals can have a elarned response.

Sound, no sound...dead rattler just the same....everytime

I currently have three diamondback rattlesnakes. Caught two just north of Abilene and one off a ranch near Adamsville. Have had all three over four years. Both snakes from Abilene were caught (in consecutive years) with a single button. The one from Adamsville had 6 rattles and I estimate was 3-4 years old.

If I so much as walk by their enclosure the snakes from Abilene immediately rattle and continue to do so until I leave the area. The snake from Adamsville I have "NEVER" heard rattle. This includes the day I caught it, feeding time, removing from the enclosure to clean it, etc.

That said, my experience thru encountering numerous rattlesnakes over the years is they are as individual as you and I. Some act aggressive at your mere presence, while some remain passive unless you get outright overly aggressive with them....most fall somewhere in between.

I don't kill snakes and rescue/relocate whenever possible.

Yeah I was having a conversation with a rattler just the other day and he had this same thought process. Its amazing how well they can rationalize if you just get down on their level and get them to talking.

thought this was info about re-calls on bad calls got a defective duck call, blew it a few times in parking lot, no ducks. might have something ta do with how ya pucker up & blow, it really quacks me up

makes me stop & think

let em go

Rattlesnakes make attractive decorations and when decorative they can't bite my grandchildren, dog, wife or me...
They can sun all they want to but I don't want to see naked snakes...

only good snake is a dead one!