MUST READ poacher story...

Let me set the stage for you guys.... A few months ago we found our fence cut and 4 wheeler tracks all over our place we own in Kosse, TX. We set up some cameras and Friday night I went through 8000 pics and BAM! Got a couple pics of two men on 4 wheelers with dogs wearing vests. They were on a Tuesday at 4:30 in the afternoon. Their faces were perfectly clear in the pics so we had em. We sent the pics to neighbors around us and 3 out of four knew exactly who they were ( Kosse is a small town). Saturday we went to the sherrif woth the pics and names( they knew them as well). We took them and a game warden out to the property and showed em where the pic was taken and the cut fence. At the end of the visit we were told this ...
". At this point, what happens now is we will go to their homes and WARN them that if they are vaught on your property again they will be facing jail time."

So we asked why did they need to be caught again??? We have them on camera!!!
They told us that since there wereno guns in the pics this was the procedure they follow...
Then we asked "so if they get caught somewhere else they are done right?

"No, only if they are caught twice on the sane property. This is the 12th time we have had to warn these guys on 12 different properties around here."

I could not believe it. What a system.

Now that we knew their names we facebooked em and one of them had posted a picture of a dead hog on the same night of our pics of them on our land.

I have run dogs before but never on someones land who didnt give permission. This law needs to be changed. End of rant.

Btw. I will not post names or pics. It will do no good and since they know who we are and where our property is there is no reason to being any retaliation to our place.

Wow that sucks, Id be cussin a blue streak.

At least maybe they know the law and wont be back to your place!

did they tie the fence back?

That sucks, but that's the law. In a nutshell, it's not considered a criminal offense unless the person "knows" that they are trespassing. So basically, when the GW and Sherrif confront them, they will play stupid and say, "We didn't cut that fence, it was like that already. Also, we had no idea we were on somebody elses property." However, once they've been notified, the next time the enter the property, they're knowingly trespassing.

You know they were trespassing, so does the GW and Sherrif, and so do the hunters. However, there's no way to prove it. Had there been a "no trespassing" sign posted, or had you previously told them to stay off your land, then they'd be busted. Now that they've been notified, the next time they step on your land, they will be criminally trespassing.

You can always post the photos here:

http://www.trailcamtrespasser.com/

Sounds like thes guys know the law. 12 warnings and not caught on the same place more than once. You'd think theyed run out of warnings.

Wow, bad situation there.

Agreed, they know the law, and they know their limits. They probably say the exact same thing everytime. "No officer, we had no idea we were on private property. Thank you for notifying us. We'll never go back there again."

I guess laws must be different in different counties. They would have been ticketed here. The law states very clearly that a fence is notification not to come across. Purple paint is good no trespassing signs are good but are not necessary.

webb1974, Thats the way I understand it.

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or
someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously
designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at
the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the
attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint
marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks
are:

I don't see anything in Texas Penal Code 30.05 which allows to get away with Criminal Trespass, especially since I assume they were carrying some kind of weapons. Even if the cut the it is still illegal to enter is intact fencing is visbile on either side of the damaged spot.

I suggest you tell your Sheriff, as the land owenr you want to press charges. He will tell you no. Then inform him that the decision is not up to him and you want the DA to refuse your request. The sheriff is being lazy, by law he can not refuse to allow you to press charges, only a DA can do that.

I would go straight to the DA. You have already done the Sheriff's job. The DA does the prosecuting. Let them tell you no.

x2
It's a crime. Go to the DA.

I was about to say, you need to go higher up. They are breaking the law, and they should be fined for something no doubt.

thats definetly a lazy LEO right there

X3

Sounds like they can’t be arrested at this point but they can be prosecuted. With your evidence it should be an easy suit to prove. It all depends on if the DA wants to pursue it though.

Good luck

By the way. We have "no tresspassing" signs on the place. But not where they cut the fence. And no. They did not fix it. We had already done that to keep the cows in/out.

I would also file a civil suit (find the average cost of a hog hunt in your area and use that amount plus the cost of repairs including labor then ask for punitive damages so they won't do it again). It will cost you money but it will cost them money too. You also might be able to get the court to award you attorney fees. A huge pain but worth it in my opinion.

They also rold us there was no proof it was these guys that cut our fence.... And there are no weapons in the pics. They probably killed the hogs with knives.

All of you are going about this wrong. You said you know who it is that solves half the problem. Tell them they can hunt your place but let you know when they are hunting it. When they show up call the warden and tell him they are back hunting after being told not to hunt there anymore. Play the way they play the game. Tell him you didnt tell them they could hunt there

Pretty much same thing happened to me on a lease just SW of Fort Worth. Deputy sheriff said they would, at most, give the guy a written warning. Game warden wants to go after the guy, mainly because his son (who we didn't catch) has a criminal record. Nothing has been done yet. We caught the guy in late December.

Driving 6 miles over the speed limit is a worse crime than poaching?

That really sucks. Hope you can get something done about it

Dogs cant read signs and dont care about fences. Coon hunters and hog hunters really want to go get their dogs if they are treed or bayed. Most of them (not all) will walk in, get their dogs and leave. Cutting a fence is bad and gives dog hunters a bad name. Its still trespassing to cross a fence, but if it was me, I would take the chance and walk in without a gun and get my dog. If someone filed on me for that (they never have)I would have to pay a fine (never had to)and pay it forward, or back. I know this comment wont set well with most deer hunters, but common sense goes a long way. Oh, by the way, most hog hunters dont carry a gun, they catch the hog, flip him over and tie him.

No wonder so many dog hunters think they can go wherever they want, whenever they want...

As a deer hunter I would be irritated, as a land owner I would be pissed. Hope the DA does something or at least they decide not to go back on your property

I understand the need to go get your dogs... Why not hunt where youhave permission all around, or at least not cut my damn fence and let all cows out??? Dont tell me your dogs cant read signs. These guys obviously dont give 2 craps about whose land they go on. If youhave that "dogs cant read" attitude im sure you do the same BS.

as a landowner, I always try to be neighborly to hunters who need to get their dog, but I'm not from Dallas.

now cutting my fence and leaving it down would be a different story.

As I said before, ive used dogs before and never had a problem. If you cant keep em on yourside of the fence find a new way to hunt.

So only people from Dallas care about people going on their property without permission?

Ya. Im in no way from Dallas, but please stay off my land. And dont cut my fence. And steal my hogs. And waste my batteries in my game cams.

Unless you are talking about domestic hogs you are raising, then the hogs are not yours. That also is part of state law. Wildlife is owned by the State.

Don't tell that to them HF fellas

If they are on my land and you come across my fence and take them they are mine. Laws or not.

They cut your fence and trespassed, go to the DA.

I've ran lots of dogs like you HS and pos's like that give all of us a black eye. You've got the power to get them in hot water with the DA I believe.

Not true.

Hot water? Agricultural trespassing is a $200 fine. Hardly "hot water"

This is exactly why I'm not a fan of most people that run dogs. And I say most people cause most are this type that I know that do run dogs. Not exactly upstanding citizens.

I'm sure some will take offense!

How many of these people do you know?

i will say I know more good guys that run dogs than bad ones. my intent of this thread was not to bash dog runners. only to bring light on a stupid situation.

I know several as a matter of fact. Like I said most I know is not people I will hunt with. I'll leave it at that. Fact of the matter is a lot of you guys trespass. I just think its careless to let a dog run loose chasing hogs on others propert!

Maybe LEO relatives,if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, smells like a carp yo me.

You knowing so many of these trespassers speaks alot about you.

I use the term "know" loosely, lets say "know of" That why I said I don't associate with them

I guess you only know perfect people?

I'm also of the opinion that if you can't keep your dogs on property where you have permission to hunt, then find a different, legal, way to hunt. Trespassing is trespassing, whether it's your dog, you, or a buddy looking for your dogs. The law might say different, but the result is the same; being on a piece of property you have no permission to be on.

I will say this though. If I happened upon some dog hunters on our property in the middle of the night, then I'd do my best to see to it they would be explaining their situation to the authorities. If they were to come wake me up and ask if they could come in and get their dogs, I'd be PO'd, but I'd let them go in, supervised. If it became a habit, then we'd have to reassess the situation.

I don't know that I'd run straight to the DA with this one though. I'd put down some narly spike strips, then let them deal with trying to get their ATV's out unnoticed.

Nope. But it brought out the truth from you. You "know of" people. To speak badly about an entire group of people based on something that you have little or no actual experience with is beyond silly.

My experience with these types of hunters is only with the people I "know of'

and I know that they are not my type. I don't run in circle with hog doggers I'm sorry.

I hate to generalize but don't yall trespass quite often chasing your doggies? I typically dont hang with trespassers either.

This can go on forever, sorry I hurt your feelings

I "know of" many on this forum that openly admit to trespassing...and "know of" some that swear they have every right too

Feel free to shoot them. Anyone on your place is fair game.

Small county, population around 20,000. You can bet the sheriff's department is a joke and will "protect" their own before an out of county hunter. There might be a chance the district attorney shares another county, hopefully that will be help.

Actually, it's not, it is owned by the public.

A few years ago, two of my hunters caught a poacher a couple of miles inside the ranch. They held him at gunpoint until I arrived with the GW who gave him his gun back, allowed him to get back into his truck and drive off into the sunset....or at least back to Fort Worth. All he did was take down his name. I talked to him a few months later and asked about the outcome of the case. He laughed at me! Total waste of time in Eastland County.

You stir the pot when you don't need to. Picking out things like this is called trolling. I know murderers and rapists. Does that speak volumes about me?

Kibble n bits with cyanide along the fence line

No sir Big Orn. But to say you "know" someone when you have only heard stories/rumors is

and to then paint all hog doggers with the same stroke of the brush is again
Its like if I say all deer hunters are trashy because of the deer corn bags I see littering the highways of west Texas. Difference is I would never trash talk all deer hunters for the mistakes of a few. I only expect the same in return. I am very responsible with my dogs. I cull dogs that hunt too far out. This is due to tbr fact that because of my location, I hunt smaller properties. I also do my brat to contact all surrounding landowners prior to hunting a piece of land. The tax assessors office is my most valuable resource.

You can thank the lawyers for this procedure. Used to you could simply post a couple of "No Trespassing" signs and that was sufficient. Not anymore. As a result, DA's will not prosecute such a case unless the offender has been issued a written warning from a LEO and then the offender does it again on the same property.

What's more troubling is the prevailing attitude of SOME hog doggers that think they are perfectly justified in running their dogs wherever they feel like. We've seen this attitude from some on this very forum.

This is incredible that nothing can be done about trespassing unless they get a first warning and then do it a second time. This is TEXAS for crying out loud. Landowner rights SHOULD reign supreme. It's the 'Wussification of America', criminals get a slap on the wrist, or less. Unbelievable.

I ran dogs in Florida for a trapper and they sometimes ended up on others property. I always carried a note in a ziplock bag in my truck and would put it on the gate if I ended up on someone's property. It had my contact information on it, and explained the tresspass. The only contacts I ever received were invitations to come run the dogs on their property.

That being said, going to get your dog is a total different type of trespass than cutting a fence and taking the hog

Trespassing is trespassing, I don't think there are different degrees. It's hard for hog doggers to admit this.

I would figure cutting a fence that wasn't around their house would be enough for them to know they were tresspassing!

I was waiting for it................. it alsways happens!

Where I hunt I have access to about 14,000 acres. Even with this much land, occasionally the dogs still cross over on to others land. It happens, because the dogs can't read signs. It doesn't happen often but it occasionally does. I just wanted to state my opinion.

But in your case I'd be pissed about the cut fence. That's the number one problem that gives dog hunters a bad name. That and intentionally running dogs where they're not wanted.

This and you have to think about the fact that a landowner may think you are robbing him, about to do a home invasion, etc. Seems like trespassers are lucky that they don't get shot more often blatantly trespassing with the excuse of "I had to get my dogs" We have let dog hunters come on our ranch before, but not without permission from the property owners on all side of us in case they had to cross a fence line. Just seems like common courtesy to speak with all involved before assuming you are welcome on anyone's property which is never the case.

Simple solution, post your property. Without it being posted (even if fenced), they get a warning first per the law. If it were posted, they get charged.

No problem with dogs here. One of my neighbors has shot every dog in sight for years. Hunters stay clear of this area.

Wasn't going to go that far but we had a problem last weekend when we were out with a neighbors pit on our property. Kept raising hell and coming closer and closer to us while we were fishing. Finally ran him off with a shot from my pistol but that dog could have easily ended up in the ground acting that way. Can't imagine what kind of response that a pack of dogs doing the same thing would have invoked with my AR.

If your property is fenced, it doesn't have to be posted. The fence is legal notice.

I betcha if people started putting deadfall pits out on their property people would stop coming uninvited.......gotta deal with civil liability then but no more poaching........

no respect for other peoples property

When I was a beat cop, 25 years ago, we use to always issue a warning to trespassers. Most DA's are not going to take a photo from a individual and prosecute anyone. The police document the warning and if the person returns, there is sufficient evidence to prosecute.

I got a trail cam pic of a trespasser carrying a rifle and the local game warden knew him,charged him, and the DA prosecuted him. He got 18 months probation. Him carrying the rifle was what did him in-that is a Class A misdemeanor.

I have also caught people running hog dogs on my property. For personal reasons (I had to be somewhere important and simply did not have time to fool with it) I did not call the law on them but told them next time I would. I reminded them that the other guy I caught was prosecuted-I am convinced they believed me as I have had no trouble since. Hog hunters are notorious for disrespecting property lines. And,yes,I actually know many who feel this way,not my buddies but you can't grow up in east TX without knowing who's who and what's what.

Some DA's actually still have their balls, not many, but some. Kudos to your DA for doing his job. I know the DA in my jurisdiction (female) has no balls and there's no indication that she'll grow a pair anytime soon.

Mike this guy was kind of notorious and the GW was almost giddy to get him. Told me the story of going to his house, the look of surprise on his face, and the confession he got on the spot. He then asked "Do I have to go with you now or can I turn myself in on Monday?"

Probably didn't hurt that the assistant DA who caught the case's Daddy was a coach who taught with my wife in another town for about 8 years.

NP, personally, if I catch a guy on posted property, armed or not, he's taking a ride. The DA may throw it out but a guy that breaks the law, knows he broke the law, deserves at least one night in a jail cell to think about his behavior.

Believe this type of trespassing, destruction of property, theft and then lack of action from LEO & DA are things that give LE a bad name, but one that is deserved. Rather frightening when you think about how our 2nd amendment is being attacked.

That's the way it should be.

There were about 6 people, all with guns, running the hog dogs. Men, boys, and a woman. They approached me and voluntarily apologized and gave me their correct names (as it turned out). They accepted my warning graciously. All that helped them. My BIL said I was crazy to engage them but I really had no choice. I was too stupid/angry to be scared I guess.

Our property is posted in 4 differnt spots. Didnt matter.

Ya that's dirty cutting the fence no need in all that crap , I don't under stand some people why tear up some body's stuff ?!?!? Go to there house an cut there fence an see how they like it !

I have had my dogs cross fence before went an talk to land owner told him what happens ask him if he wanted the hog an I would clean it for him , he said sure an now he said of it happens again don't worry bout asking just go in there an get them

Funny how a little communication can go along way.