Hunting vs Harvesting

The art of hunting being lost ??? Is the art of hunting being lost in the age of feeders and cam's and decoy's and all the other things they sell at Cabela's, and the other box sports stores....

yes.

hunting is goin afield to hunt, shooting is secondary. We still are able to "hunt" ducks, quail, phesant,rabbits, squirrels, etc.

99% of deer hunting in texas is more of a harvesting method.

nothing wrong with it, however, as long as people get outdoors

I don't use corn in oklahoma but due use a hang on stand

You "hunt" for animals and "harvest" crops. Thats the way I see it.

I hunt to kill with any method however that is legal.

I primarily hunt to enjoy the time in the field both by myself and with friends. I only hunt mature buck deer thus I seldom let an arrow fly. On the other hand I like to do my part to thin the Kansas doe population and truly enjoy hunting them with a bow.

Running trail cams and viewing all of the great pics gives me a lot of satisfaction as well. Kind of fun to pick out a target deer from the trail cams and go for him, that is unless something better comes along.

I have grandchildren now and look forward to spending lots of time with them in the outdoors both fishing and hunting.

About 200 years ago, this same question was poised in regards to muskets versus bows and spears.

It's constantly evolving. The technology may improve, but the animals evolve with it.

I enjoy watching all the animals. I think what I do here is a selective harvest, we pull the deer out with feed and take the bucks and does that need to go. The feed is also good for managing the hogs. When I feel the need to hardcore hunt, I go on a Elk or Muley hunt..

I dont think i have ever harvested any animals. I sure have killed a few while hunting though.

Very true

So you don't think you're great grand-pappy hunting over the only local water source or an oak tree dropping acorns is really any different?

Why complain about people who are willing to support an entire industry? Think of the jobs that would be lost if the manufacturers of the products you seem to find so destressing to our sport just up and closed.

I don't comment on other's methods of hunting. Do I want to watch a dog get cut up, then stick a hog in the heart with a knife? No, but I don't look down at those that do.

I do comment on the chest thumper threads though. Not saying that's what you're doing, but I find the threads where guys get an inflated sense of self because they choose to hunt whatever method they consider 'old school', to be somewhat at odds with trying to keep this sport alive.

X2 the hardcore comment. I've taken WT's in Texas for over 40 years and still love it but when I want to really hunt I go out west and chase Elk on public land. That type of hunting will test your skill and you will find out what your made of. As I said I still love to set over a feeder every now and again but I don't consider it hunting. Just my .02

see the giant down thread, hunting in tx is done, we shoot deer and congradulate ourselves on what we have become, as long as we have campfires and beer or prayer we are happy, in 20 years it will all be hf or zoo hunts, its done boys

symantics IMO. you hunt game and you harvest meat and/or the trophy.

pretty so the hardest part of hunting is going to be working for the money so we can hunt, well its kinda like that now adays

Deer hunting was never hard. The population of deer in Texas has grown exponentially due to people managing their land to cultivate deer, instead of killing them off for crop protection.

That, in my opinion, is the biggest reason it's so dang easy to kill a big buck these days. About 20 times as many of them around.

You call it what you want. I'm in it for the kill. I enjoy all the stuff that goes with it but I'm there to take an animal. If you can't live with the blood and guts of it go play golf.

Maybe the native americans thought the "art" of hunting was lost when they first saw their first firearm?



Nah....they probably just looked at their bow and said, "To heck with this string and stick stuff. Give me that!"

The Native Americans were trying to be as sporting as possible when they drove herds of buffalo off of cliffs.

IDK, Im taking my 6 year old for a harvest hunt. We are basically waiting on a few axis does that we (I) know will come out eventually. Then he will shoot one. I guess what I am saying is that that is not a hunt for me, but in my sons eyes its the hunt of his life. So even if you "hunt" with a rifle or bow, I am sure that there is someone out there that says you are cheating. Id say at the end of the day its all a hravest for me, bc I dont waste animals.

I think the indians hunted food plots and used blinds.

Deer won't eat corn in Oklahoma?

Them's Yankee deer. They eat tofu.

After reading all the comments, I guess I am a Harvester. IMO not really true hunting sitting in a blind and waiting for the deer to come to the corn, but thats what we do. I know on my great gradfathers land that they were all "harvesters" because back in those old days no mattter what time of year it was, if they were out of meat, he would grab the 30-30, go out back and take a deer to put food on the table, they did what they had to do to provide, so I think he was a harvester as well. If you are in it for the meat, then I personally beleive that you are a harvester, if you are in it for the horns, then I think you are more of a hunter.

Im very happy to be in a state that allows me the most room to do what i want with MY land and hunt it how i choose fit...i love the fact i can put a feeder out..sorry we dnt have standing crop fields around every turn...and food plots and blind setups and all this just adds to the experiance....

+1

All I know is I'm very lucky to do what I do and am able to enjoy the outdoors as much as I do.

To me hunting is more than just taking a animal for meat.

Seems like the last 8 or 10 years I've done a lot more hunting than harvesting.

I harvest does. To fill our quota we corn the heck out of our hunt area and shoot all the does we can. It's a turkey shoot for the first and sometimes second weekend of the season.

After that it's time to settle in and hunt your buck. I know in my mind what kind of buck I want. It's a waiting game that takes patience and discipline. I'm not hunting just any buck, but a specific buck or type of buck. I've hunted for weeks and sometimes a month or more waiting for just the right buck. In the meantime I've passed up on 120, 130, 140 and even 150 class bucks waiting for just the right one.

Hunting is what you make of it. If you like spot and stalk then west Texas is for you. If you like seeing large numbers of deer then head to the hill country. You want to see large numbers of big bucks then head south.

That's the great thing about Texas, we have just about every kind of geographical region imaginable. Take your pick.

I am with ya, but with one exception

He was tough to pass up but just wasn't what I had in mind for the spot over the fireplace.

Harvesting is just a fancy word for killing. Let's not get it confused; whether you use the word kill, manage, cull, harvest, thinning the heard; it doesn't matter. You're killing.


The word hunting is subjective. Are you hunting a particular deer? Hunting meat? Are you just sitting in a stand with a buddy? Are you climbing a mountain?

I don't use the word harvesting because that's what you do with corn, beans, or lettuce. And to me, hunting and hunting hard are two different things.

Just my opinion.

stalking is tougher and more rewarding, but even if you bait and sit you still put plenty of scouting and work in also. Same as taking a deer 30 yards away with a bow? no, but you should still feel proud anyway.

Some of you need to read the definition of hunting.

If you shoot a chicken in your backyard, you're hunting.

they were harvesting on a massive scale. kinda like a farmer and a combine

Again, harvesting is fancy word for killing.

i get where your coming from, however if anybody harvested a deer it would be an indian, they used everybit of that animal, for clothes, tools, food, weapons.

Fair enough.

I just think the word "harvesting" started getting used in hunting deer when it really started becoming a business instead of recreation. It's a little more "politaclly correct".

yes its a way of sugar coating it

Harvesting is the politicly correct word so you wont offened any tofu eating tree huggin hippies. I dont care what they think I hunted it, and I killed it.

Man thats way over used by people who do not really know how or why it was done or the numbers involved. I know when you hear herd, people assume hundreds or thousands. Sure maybe on occasion but often than not, as small as number as possible were taken. Keep in mind this would also involve the entire tribal family group(30-100 or more people depending on time of year) and sometimes multiple family tribal groups. Remember Custer he attacked a "gathering" that is estimated at 2,000-5,000 warriors, add the non-warriers from the family group and you'll end up with a gathering of 8,000-12,000. Do you need to drive a heard of buffalo off a cliff, into a ravine etc... to feed and clotch your people. You bet you do.

Today I hunt for the sport, traditions and ejoyment it brings of being outdoors. I'll take one or two deer a year.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harvest?show=1&t=1318549317

As hunters, we need to use the word harvest when talking to certain people. Hunting is not killing. Just like fishing is not catching. Hunting and fishing is the process in which we kill or catch. Harvesting is the taking of something.

Harvesting is what I do after I hunted it and killed it! Hunting is what I do when I plan on killing and harvesting. Killing is what I do after I hunted it & found it. After I kill it I gather it up (harvest)and take it home.

Don't believe in that PC stuff. Look at the mess it's already got us in!

Thanks for the history lesson, Mr Reads Way Too Much Into A Simple Post.

EGG-Zactly! I agree, after I kill it I gather it up too..

Now I do sometimes harvest some vegatables when I have the time to grow them.

You're right; hunting is to fishing as killing is to catching. Two totally differnt thing.

Hunting is the act of finding and stalking an animal, or sitting in a blind and waiting for them. As some hifaluters say, harvesting, is the actual act of killing, whether it be with a fire arm, bow and arrow, knife, or a rock. It doesn't matter. Like I've said, it's just a fancy word.

Brave and Intrepid
Big and Gigantic
Kill and Harvest

Take your pick.

I think you are right on the money, but I would say that if you are in it only for the horns then you are a selfish person. I think that the only animals that shouldnt be eaten are animals that cant be eaten (coyotes, cats, etc.) If you cant show the animal enough respect to actually put the animal to good use, then well, IMO you shouldnt be hunting.

Really jram? We don't have to hunt for food anymore. Life is easier now than what it used to be. Hunting is more of a sport now, not harvesting an animal to feed the family. Yes, we do still feed the family with that meat, but we don't, as a whole population, rely on it anymore.

In college... I must admit, I kinda relied on hunting to feed myself. Between elk, deer, duck, dove, quail, hogs, and crane (mmmm....crane....), my roommates and I were kept fed at a fraction of the price it woulda cost us otherwise. Call me oldfashioned, but I take great pride in living off of what I harvest. Usually even had enough left before the start of the hunting season that I could throw a nice wild-game tailgate party at UNT's first home game.

I am personally not in it for the horns, there are a few on my lease that are, so that's what they are there for, me I will take does all day long just to put meat in the freezer for the year. My family eats almost strickly deer meat, hardly ever buy meat at the grocery store, trust me everthing that I take gets put to use.

I wish I could hunt all those but what did hunting cost you as oppose to what you took in.

For me the the cost of hunting is not offset by the meat I bring in but the time and experiences with my son and recently my daughter are "priceless."

I consider hunting telling stories around the fire, getting away from work, drinking with my buddies, turning off the cell phone, etc. And occasionally I'll kill something and eat it. I only try to "harvest" a good time and some great memories.

Some of my family make soup, hats, cover sent, and toothpicks outa coons.....they are swamp indians...around here we call them coona$$ they cant even spell harvest

Several hogs got killed last weekend when a farmer, whose land I hunt, cut his hay grazer and a bunch of hogs were living in there. Several got cut up by the blades. Pretty sure none were eaten, but I'd still call them "harvested".

Sorry if anyone interpreted that as disrespectful to the hogs!

I dont think the way we hunt in TX (over corn) is very challenging, but it is legal and acceptable. Harvesting or hunting, who cares. Shoot the deer and eat it, or give the meat to someone who needs it. I dont see anything wrong with trophy hunting, or hunting over bait. Its all a matter of opinion.

Don't throw my fish back either!

Hogs should be shot at every legal opportunity whether you are going to eat the filthy things or not.

It always cost me a lot more than if I went out and bought it. But I don't give a big rats butt. I love hunting and plan on doing it as long as I can.

I did the same, every year my roomates and I would get together and make sausage and ground meat, enough to last us through the year, and yes we ate sausage about 3 nights a week and didnt have a single problem wiht it. We made a deal when we moved in together not to eat out because it was expensive and not really al that great most of the time. We hunted for free, did a little work for some old folks and they let us hunt deer and hog, didnt get any big bucks, but plenty to eat.

I dont hunt because I have to, but because I want to and i love the meat and doing stuff how my relatives did in the past.

I also think it is real easy for them norther boys to critisize hunting over a feeder while they sit in a tree stand overlooking a corn or soy bean field.

If you cant feed them then what else is cheating?

Say your walking through the woods and you come to a clearing with two stumps in it on one sits a Big Mack on the other ____ (insert name of babe of your choice)stark naked and ready to go, which one you going to first? Does that mean doe estrus scents should be considered cheating too?

What about the products that ALEGEDLY remove or destroy human oddor, is it FAIR to take that advantage?

They are deer folks get over it. If you got the want to hunt/kill one great, do it how you want within the law. We got dominoin over them from the highest power.

Im gonna hunt spot and stalk in a blind over corn over water with a gun a bow and a smoke pole because it is fun and I like it not because I think im rambo.

In Texas, I readily admit, most of us do "selective harvesting" when deer hunting. In the mountain regions of North America, it's more hunting. Spot and stalk is about as "hunting" as hunting gets. Be it with a rifle, bow, crossbow, or spear. You are trying to outsmart the animal on their terms. You are reading terrain, watching conditions, always looking for fresh sign, and playing the wind at all times. And that's just to SEE the animal, then you get to try to set-up on it when it's likely moving thru the woods at a faster rate than you can.

Hunting over a feeder, foodplot, grainfield, waterhole, etc., is selective harvesting, unless you kill the first thing that walks out.

I bet a large portion of the hunters on this site have watched deer grow from fawns (seedlings) to mature deer (ripe) and then killed them. I know I have. It does give some gratification to know the hard work and patience paid off. But to call it "hunting" is not completely accurate. Growing something until it is ripe, then taking it home to eat is "harvesting" no matter if you cut if off the vine or shoot it with a rifle. Workers at the slaughter houses aren't hunting cows, they are simply killing them because they are ready (ripe). They just happened to be harvested out of the herd by the rancher, taken to the feedlot, fed out, then on to the butcher. Same thing.

Funny story; My uncle always talked about hunting over a "can" (feeder), and how he disliked it. He frowned when I built a 5'x8' condo stand 20' off the ground on the pipeline across our property and can now watch what it used to take 3 other stands to watch. I then put in about 4-5acres of food plots and two feeders. But any time I am not there, he sits in my stand because he knows he will see more animals. He has stands on travel corridors thru the place, and I hunt them as well. We see deer on them that we never see out in the open. But he, and everyone else on the place, gravitate towards my set-up more than any other. Maybe it's the heater, or the Louis Lamour library, or simply the great view from 20' in the air while sitting in the high back reclining office chair? I dunno, but I do find it hilarious when I show up to the property right before a hunt and surprise everyone, and they are having to adjust all of their plans because someone was going to be in my stand and others had based their locations on that as well. I admit, sometimes I do it on purpose to keep them on their toes. LOL

My Dad owned guns and golf clubs, and I never saw him use either. Never had anyone to teach me to hunt. I began on my own and am still a student to the outdoors.

I "hunt" until I "harvest" simple as that. As long as it's legal, I have no problems how another fella wishes to hunt, blind ,stalk, ect tra. I've hunted every way I can think of, but always with the same goal.

Hunting:
1.
to chase or search for (game or other wild animals) for the purpose of catching or killing.
2.
to scour (an area) in pursuit of game.

Trapping
1.
a contrivance used for catching game or other animals, as a mechanical device.

2.
any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person/animal unawares.

Think a corn feeder would fall under the category of trapping/baiting. Not really hunting. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, just I don't think setting traps for deer by baiting them is the same as "hunting" them. Will I do it? Damn right. Would I compare killing a deer that way with someone who actually hunt for a deer in the rocky mountains of Idaho where baiting is illegal? Not likely.

The entire problem revolves around money. Would I like to hunt by stalking animals? Sure I would, but I can only afford a lease with a few hundred acres and stalking animals on a few hundred acres takes about an hour and then what are you going to do the rest of the day after you have run all of the animals off? You can see more animals hunting over a feeder and you have a better chance of hunitng longer by using a feeder. Indians hunted over salt licks and over waterholes, was that just shooting, or was that hunting?

If you have 100 acres with cattle and you decide to shoot one at the feeding trough does that mean you hunted cow?

Welcome to Texas.

Now if you can't say anything without being condescending and negative, you might consider just going back to the wonderful mountains of Idaho and your precious BLM land.

Just because I have a differant opinion on what hunting is doesn't make me condescending or negative. I just think that that baiting an animal and hunting an animal are 2 differant things.

Not saying I have an answer for the problem except maybe winning the lottery, but hunting over a feeder is much preferred to not hunting at all and being less into the killing aspect, I can pretty much enjoy myself if I am outside and away from people. You figure it out and I will just enjoy myself. Imagine this, sometimes I just take a camera.

I guess if you do not like it is done down here, you can get in your vehicle or maybe on the back of your pack mule and head out for parts unknown, but I would consider the time and money spent when you rip off to head out for your favored Utah. We are just trying to do the best we can with what we have here. One more thought is that we were doing fine before you got here and we will be doing fine long after you are gone.

This topic has been covered 1000x times

Ya'll are taking my comments personally, it's kinda sad. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with baiting an animal if it's legal, and you can call it whatever name you like. Call it spelunking for all I care. I've stated my opinion on baiting vs hunting and if you don't agree, fine, but telling me I should leave Texas? Kinda childish.

I think it's more of primitive hunting vs. modern hunting. I have killed at the feeder. I have killed from across a pasture at 400 yards while checking on goats and sheep. I have gone squirrel hunting. I have shot squirrels out of the pecan trees behind my folks house. Fact is, they tasted the same regardless of how/where/why I killed them. If it's legal, who cares.

Just like my Utah friends... won't hunt over a corn feeder but will scout every alfalfa field they can find in a unit

x2 I might not have a desire to participate in a certain hunting style, but as long as it is legal than go for it. People out in the woods and fields is better than not being there.

to me, hunting involves going after something you actually want to shoot.. harvesting is quota filling and closely related to work.

I took my 8 year old daughter out for the first time to sit with me in a ground blind while bowhunting 2 weeks ago. When I "apologized" to her that we didnt see any bucks, she said, "That's ok, Dad. It's was just fun to sit and hope."

Now, that's what hunting is all about.

What's childish is moving to a new place and whining to everyone that it's not as good here as it was back home.

And no one told you to leave Texas....just questioned why you would chose to stay in such an inferior place.

No whats childish is trying to put words in my mouth because you have a differance of opinion. I did not in fact whine and I also never said anything about it being inferior or "not being as good as back home". There is a differance between hunting an animal and setting a trap for it with bait. Sorry if that offends you.

There are lots of different techniques to hunting. None of the legal techniques offend me.

I was referring to you going back to Utah just for hunting purposes, not leave Texas for good. You can live here, hunt here, fish here, and you can do it all by any method you prefer. Just saying that if you want to lease land to hunt on, you will have to have a pretty penny if your method of hunting is going to be going after the game rather than the game coming to you. Get after it and have fun, but I would prefer that you consider that not all of us have bookoos of money like you rich Utahians.

So now I'm rich and from Utah because of I think there's a differance between hunting/stalking and baiting/trapping? I never said there's anything wrong with baiting deer, I just said it's not the same as hunting them. You can use the word "hunting" to encompass any method of shooting or harvesting a deer, but I call it what it is, baiting. Doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with it and I do in fact shoot deer this way. Like others have said, if you enjoy it and it gets you outdoors and provides you with a better chance of shooting an animal(legally) then great.

So why is it so important to you that the distinction between your definition of hunting and others' definition be made? (you have invested most of your posts on this forum on this topic)

And since you like definitions, how does throwing corn on the ground constitue "trapping"?


"a contrivance used for catching game or other animals, as a mechanical device that springs shut suddenly"

You just want to be confrontational. Don't really need your definitions either. If I get in a bind for a definition, I refer to Mr. Merriam Webster, not a Utahian or Utahite or whatever you call yourself. By the way, when you go fishing do you use worms, flies, or what and do you call it baiting also or do you don scuba gear and swim after them there fishies?

I hunt deer and I harvest the venison

gotta love em kid!

Best explanation of hunting I have heard.

Are you trying to say your don't use a feeder(mechanical device) but go out and throw corn on the ground by hand? That's funny and very hard to believe. And as to your question about why I am posting about the distintion between hunting and baiting it's because that is what this topic is about lol. Why are you even coming to read this thread if you aren't interested in discussing the topic? Again, nothing wrong with baiting a deer where it's legal. Why is it so important that I agree with you that baiting a deer is the same as hunting it?

Edit: Why does benbob keep calling me a utahite or whatever? Is being from utah(which i'm not lol) supposed to be an insult here or something?

Yes, I do EXACTLY that. It's hard for you to believe because you have no idea what you are talking about. I have an old Igloo cooler in the back of my Gator in which I put corn, and using an old coffee can I dribble corn along a sendero (do you have any idea what that is?) in the south Texas brush. The corn SOMETIMES causes a deer to stop in the sendero long enough to get a shot. But he dang sure ain't "trapped" in the sendero.

I thought calling you an Utahian or an Utahite would be a term of endearment, but since you are not from there, you can forget that. Answer my question about fishing please.

Again, why continue to argue and personally attack me? I'm not going to change my opinion on baiting an animal, period. Don't care what justification you make. Fact of the matter is, hunting is legal everywhere but baiting is not. That's all the proof I need that there's a differance between the two.

you need state laws in order to know the difference between baiting or not baiting?? not trying to but thats kinda funny...

not an argument and not a personal attack. Just a statement of FACTS. You said it was "funny and hard to believe" that I use corn, but without a feeder....I presented the FACTS that show your assumption to be wrohg.

Secondly, as to your rationale that baiting is not legal "everywhere" proves that it is not "Hunting": Different states have different rules for hunting. 22 caliber rifles are illegal for deer hunting is some states. So following your rationale, if one carries a 22-250 to hunt deer in a state where it is legal, he is not really hunting...

And yes, I am fully aware that presenting facts will not change your mind.

What difference does it make.

Just go abide by the laws and have fun. Be a good steward of the land. Get young people involved whenever possible.

I use fake corn in a real feeder. Fake corn is a lot cheaper than the real thing, but it sure takes a long time to pick it all up every weekend and put it back in the real feeder. Does that make me more of a hunter or a baiter?

Sometimes when I am more than 100 yards from a feeder, I use a recording of a feeder and the deer will come to the sound with no corn being thrown, just the sound. Does that make me a real hunter or a fake baiter?

Maybe it makes you a master one.

Thanks, I guess.

Ok here's a fact, baiting a deer by the very definition I posted earlier, which BTW you chose to quote and leave out half of, is in FACT trapping.

Trapping
1.
a contrivance used for catching game or other animals, as a mechanical device.

2.
any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person/animal unawares.

Pay particular attention to number 2. Now answer this, are you or are you not using a stratagem/trick or the like for catching an animal unaware. You in FACT are as you stated, "The corn SOMETIMES causes a deer to stop in the sendero long enough to get a shot. But he dang sure ain't "trapped" in the sendero." So sir, unless you want to write the folks who make the dictionary and have them change the definition of the word, you in did trap a deer in the sendero by baiting him with corn(that is if you shot him).

I still don't see why exactly your are taking such offense at my comments when similar views as mine have been posted in this very thread. I don't care how you choose to shoot your deer as long as it's legal. But I'm not going to concede that baiting an animal is the same thing as hunting one down, no matter what name you would like to call it. Call it hunting, spelunking, say you went boogyboarding for deer. Don't matter to me. If you feel insulted, oh well. I hope everyone enjoy's shooting a deer this year, call it whatever you want .

"2.
any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person/animal unawares."


So anytime I catch an animal unawares, I am trapping them? Mostly anytime I get a shot at an animal, they are unawares. I am a trapping Jessie, huh?

booiiiinnnnnnnggg

Frenzy, why are you trolling? You had to know you were coming into a Texas Hunting Forum as stated by the name (duhhh).....and you had to know that the main method applied in the state of Texas was using corn (or you would have chose another topic). I say kill this ridiculous thread and

Hey I made one post, that was very similar to what others have posted and then I get these 2 deeks coming after me lol. I have no problem with using corn, as I've said and I've done. I think I may have just hurt these poor fella's pride by saying hunting and baiting are differant things. Having done both many many times, I'm not gonna change my opinion on it. Not gonna apologize for it either.

Originally Posted By: BenBob
"2.
any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person/animal unawares."


So anytime I catch an animal unawares, I am trapping them? Mostly anytime I get a shot at an animal, they are unawares. I am a trapping Jessie, huh?


Frenzy said:

Try reading it a little more thoroughly and you wouldnt have to ask that question. Did you use a device, strategem, trick, or something simililar? If the answer's yes, then there ya go smart guy.


So if I use the stratagem of sneaking up behind a tree, jumping out from behind said tree while screaming "boo!" at a deer on the other side, I will therefore have trapped it...

Man I love this forum but the hunting snobbery gets pretty old. I can sit on my tripod near the pond and wait till animals come for a drink. Is that "baiting" them with water? Or maybe hunker down at the edge of an oak grove and wait for them to come get some acorns. Thanks God, for "baiting" the area for me. Hunting during rut and I'm using the does for bait. The list goes on and on. Unless you shoot deer in their sleep you are taking advantage of some kind of bait. My thinking is you're baiting the hunters on this forum into an argument by making inflammatory comments and accusations. Also, if you have to look up the word "trap" in the dictionary to prove a point you have bigger problems than being a hunting snob.

You hit it on the head!

No I'm just defending what I posted. Shouldn't have to but I'm not gonna change my opinion. I don't see any jumping all over any of the other guys who posted similar views as mine, so IMHO the ones calling me out are the hunting snobs.



Didn't see anyone jumping all over this guy for saying "selective harvesting" but if I say "baiting" oooo look out lol. He even said spot and stalk is about as "hunting" as hunting gets. And I agree with him 100%. Is baiting wrong? Nope, I think it's great especially in Texas where where it provides the opportunity for so many to shoot a deer. Do I put the use of training deer to come to feeders by baiting them on the same level? Sure don't. In a thread titled "hunting vs harvesting" did you really come and read it expecting everyone to agree that baiting an animal is on the same level as stalking it? All the folks calling me out or saying "ive got bigger problems" are the real snobs. Can't have a differant opinion or get treated like a leper lol.

selective harvesting is just that....selecting which deer to cull out of the herd. nothing to do with baiting

Why are you so offended that I say baiting? Is that not what feeding deer corn is? What should I call it then?

p.s. you can have differing opinions but you are putting people down for it and specifically have stated that it's not hunting. again.......stating that on a hunting site where people use corn is looking for a fight. don't walk into a prison with your arse hanging out and expect not to get whistled at...

so i went from shooting deer to trapping them, hmmmmmm trapping them with a boolit, hmmmmmmm. guess were all criminals cause trapping deer is ilegal

I keep throwing out corn, but have yet to trap a deer. Seems they can walk right over it...

Wierd, huh?

It's not baiting, because it is Hunting. Unless you spot and stalk, to you, everything else is baiting, but obviously you have forgot what the term hunting meant. You can call it baiting, but it is called hunting, and the shooting of an animal is harvesting.

if you hunt in the woods or along a clearing your also baiting because the deer would not be there otherwise.........

This guy was one of the very first poster's in this topic. He too does not consider sitting over a feeder hunting. Didn't see half the uproar about his comments on feeders not being "hunting." And I also agree with this guy 100%.

A lot of the "foreigners" to Texas do not realize that natural deer food is not in an abundance in most of Texas. They were not here when the deer population in the Hill Country was the only sustainable and hunt able deer population in the state. It was the automatic corn feeders that created and sustain the current deer population.

If feeders were banned today, a large portion of the deer population would starve to death and the population would revert to the pre 1970 days. Where to see 1 buck was great year, to kill one was considered an act of God. Doe permits were allocated in the counties based on the population of deer, in 1970, Taylor county landowners were given 1 doe permit per 325 acres.

We have to forgive these "foreigners" for they do not know enough about Texas to make an informed comment. Let us enlighten their ignorance instead of condemning them stupidity.

You read that, and he never dismissed Texas hunting as hunting. He just said if he wants a better challenge he'll go after something else. You need to give up frenzy, because you're not going to be right. So I think we need to change the name of this place to the Texas Baiting and Trapping Forum

Oh, boo hoo, everyone is picking on poor little me. Just me, no body else. Boo hoo.

And you still haven't answered the question about how throwing out corn "traps" a deer. even by the definition that you looked up and posted, it ain't trapping.

Your welcome to your opinion. Just don't try to support it with flawed arguments.

Seems going by your definition of what hunting is and isn't you don't hunt either.
That is unless you stumble upon a deer by total surprise without any plan or forethought.

Stratagem
: an artifice or trick in war for deceiving and outwitting the enemy.
: a cleverly contrived trick or scheme for gaining an end.
: skill in ruses or trickery.
: a trick or plan for deceiving an enemy or for achieving a goal.

You deceive a deer by merely being in the woods where they don't expect humans.
You trick them by wearing camo using scent control or anything as concealment.
You outwit them by studying their habits and using their feeding & bedding areas and travel paths as an ambush sight.

So you're not a hunter either,,, welcome to the club

I believe that is one of the worse attempts to justify a position by use of a definition that I have seen

Okay, I admit it I'm lost, I wasn't trying to justify anything.

It was an attempt to display to Frenzy how anyone can stretch a definition past it's intended meaning to support one's views on a subject.

To me if it's legal it's hunting.

Guess I should have quoted the one that I was talking about. It wasn't your definition that I was referring too...it was the other one

Ok well it's legal for me to shoot a cow when it comes to the feeding trough. Does that mean I hunted a cow lol. Of coarse not.



Wow JJH, that's real adult of you. I'd expect that kinda crap from a teenager, not a grown man lol. You did in fact use corn to trap a deer, sorry if that hurts your ego. You're entitled to your opinion and can call it whatever you like, even if you are wrong .

PS Ya'll can call it whatever, I've hunted every state in the NW and I've hunted here, I've already got my Idaho elk this year. I'm not going to call baiting a deer/elk hunting, ever. I'll still do it though, and enjoy it. But I'm gonna call it what it is.

By your definition Frenzy, using rattling horns, doe pee, grunt tube, or pretty much anything is considered trapping

You might as well give up, the "foreigner" doesn't understand Texas. Most of them think, which seems to be their major problem. Give them 5 to 10 years and they will not be so ignorant.

At least I got another good sig line out of this thread...

Probably right

I've considered booking a cow hunt. The meat would be good.

how would you "trap" the cow?

Not my definition txshntr, it's webster's. And you are right, I guess by the definition of the word most methods of shooting a deer could fall under it. That's why when I posted I said I consider a feeder trapping/baiting, not hunting. Hunting involves chasing or searching for your prey. I do not consider sitting in a deer stand, using bait, and waiting for the deer to come to you hunting. Though in Texas, obviously that's the meaning of the word. Go to the NW and hunt and ask where the feeder's are and you'll probably get the same response's I am getting here lol.

PS Ya'll are too damn sensitive, jeez.

do you consider hurling a sub sonic projectile from a $1500 dollar rifle topped with a Swarovski scope "hunting"??? Just asking...

Definition ou the word hunt, straight from the 2011-2012 TPWD Outdoor Annual...

Hunt:
To capture, trap, take, or kill, and includes any attempt to capture, trap, take, or kill.


Last time I checked, we obey the Outdoor annuals definitions and regulations when it comes to hunting and fishing. Merriam Websters definition doesn't amount to crap where the TPWD laws are concerned. And until I buy my TEXAS hunting/fishing license from Merriam Webster, I will use TPWDs definitions.


Link to definitions- Definitions

I don't know...do you consider shooting a domesticated deer who's been trained to show up at a feeder "hunting"??? I already know the answer but just asking....

Yes...including cats, dogs, beavers and especially if their in a pen and tied to a post...

That one made pepsi come out my nose just a little lmao.

Try reading this again.

On edit: And it is killing not hunting or harvesting, we do this because the state legislature wont's allow us to shoot "foreigners" or ignorant people.

How ignorant are you? They are not in any way domestic, and dang sure aren't trained. They don't have to show up to our trap we have sprung for them. You really need to learn what the definition of hunting is.

somebody needs to put this yankee on a thousand acre south texas pasture that doesnt have a single road or sendero and let him stock his butt off, give him two days and see what he can do, prolly end up as coyote crap

To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.

In Texas you are a foreigner unless you were born here. Some of us even consider 3rd or 4th generation Texans still outsider foreigners. My family was here when it still belonged to Mexico.

Your opinion is worth about the price of used toilet paper.

To Texans a Yankee is:
A person who has an elitist attitude.
Thinks they know more than anyone else even though it's painfully obvious to those around them they don't.
Thinks they are just flat superior to everyone else just because they breathe.
The above regardless of geography.

I'm not the one resorting to insults and name calling so whats that say about the attitude's here? Also, I belive that native texans are actually the minority in texas. So you should be glad that these "foreigners" are here to pay your bills . I know that'll getcha natives fired up lol.

well your wrong people born here stay here, they damn sure dont want to live in no northern liberal state, and all yankees come here because they done screwed up their state with the liberal mentality, we wecome all but dont bring that liberal mindset with you.

So my opinion on hunting vs baiting makes me a liberal? I'd love to here how you came up with that crap lol.

Edit: To all you sportsman who respect other people and their opinions, I salute you and good luck. To the the folks here who resort to name calling and insulting someone they disagree with, I'll pray for you and yours. Not going to post anymore on the subject.

Ok. So, by the definition that you have chose to support your claim, hunting by pretty much any means is trapping rather than hunting. Even stalking by your definition would not be hunting because you would catch the prey "unaware."

So what exactly is hunting by your hunting? Sitting in a blind over a food plot? Sitting over a trail that leads to/from a bedding or feeding area? Calling deer in or using an attractant?

Not sensitive at all. Just curious how the "other side" thinks.

I would say sitting in a blind over a feeder like most people do is hunting.

Now, the question of if it is hard or not is a another question.

Harvest, hunt...kill, obliterate (for those <5'10" shooting the magnums) doesn't matter

Go to NM or CO and ask where the alafafa field is same difference.

Or soybeans in Ill,Okla, ohio
Or cut corn feild and alafafa in tx, az, okla, Kansas,Nebraska,

Hunting pheasants on crp corners of irrigated Milo, and corn fields

What about hunting white oak trees throughout the us???

so many good sig quotes in here... I just can't decide. I know BuckRage's one about the prison is going to make it, and there was another one if I can find it again.

*edit* dangit, I had to cut them down so they would meet regulations. Still good though.

I'll jump in. Growing up my dad taught me to hunt from feeders (he wasn't keen on it, but that was where the ranchers put us when we were invited out). I have always felt ashamed that I killed something from a blind that came running up to a feeder. The deer never had a chance. Then in my late teens, I worked on a ranch where one of my jobs was clearing shooting lanes and setting up feeders and blinds. The hunters would come in from the city (no offense meant, that's just were they came from) with all their bells, whistles, and gizmos. They would sit in the blind, feeder goes off, shoot their deer, take a picture, and then take their deer to someone else to process. After working on that ranch, I had such a bad taste in my mouth of "hunting" that I wanted nothing to do with it anymore. Then I joined the military, got exposed to northern hunting, and it reignited my desire to hunt. But this time with the desire to learn how to truly hunt. To use and hone my skills. I hunt now to maintain and improve my skills and feed my family. I completely agree with baiting when you are desperate for food and have to do anything to survive. I now want my kids to learn a skill called hunting. I always have this crazy idea that someday society may collapse and I or my kids will have to know how to hunt without having corn laying around, man made callers to trick animals, ozone scent blockers, and whatever other technology we use now. The crap I see people using on the hunting shows makes me wonder! I think as hunters, we should be challenging ourselves more every year. I like to joke around with friends who hunt inside high fences and ask them what color collar did the deer have on this time. (note - I use to have a pet deer with an orange collar and a bell and somebody shot that deer)
I do think it makes sense for people who have limited mobility and enjoy the outdoors to use blinds and I am glad they have that legal option.
I always feel embarrassed when I start comparing my skills to the guys who feed their families all year long with just a pointed stick. I'm sure they would laugh at everyone of us if they had access to the internet.



P.S. I hate the feeling I get when I kill an animal, but I know the skill is necessary and important to pass on to future generations. My kids 7th b-day is 05 Nov and his gift is waking up early and honing his skills in the outdoors.

Stalking is definitely more fun.. but .. lack of land access... limited time to hunt... THICK EAST TEXAS BRUSH etc.... blind hunting is much more productive .. blinds are great for kids... I have watched alot of videos with "Northern Hunting" style... Really doesnt look so incredibly hard to me when you can actually "walk" through the forest or field..

When I was young my father and I used to hunt in the mountains of Pennsylvania. We did the leg work scouting out different areas, and when rifle season opened we walked out in the woods and found what we felt was a good spot and waited, or we just kept walking. This was back in the early 80's when the hunting gadgets were few. Today advances in technology have upped the level of competition between hunters, and even if you don't believe in feeders, you need to put one out because everyone else around you has put one out because we all love game cam pics. Feeders are probably as common as oak trees in some areas. I also imagine the feeders are needed in some areas as the high fenced hunting ranches that seem to be popping up everywhere are cutting off access to food and water supplies for the animals on the outside of the high fences. The corn is actually subsidizing the animals diet. Deer hunting has become very commercialized, very expensive, and access to what was once a food source is slowly being taken away. It would be cheaper to pay a cattle rancher $900, park your truck near a feed trough, wait for the cows to come in for lunch and pop the one you want. Cattle ranchers make money, you get to shoot something at a feeder, you get more meat for the table, and it's alot cheaper than some of the trophy fees I have seen for deer. The only down side I see here is that a cow head wouldn't look very good hanging over the fireplace...

I only wear a loin cloth while I hunt. I use no weapons, only my bare hands. I am the only "hunter" here.

Do you wait in a tree and jump on them, or just chase them down??

oh, and then don't you have to "trap" them with your hands before you choke them or beat them to death??

Vurtle, if killing an animal makes you feel bad, you probably shouldn't do it.

I too have hunted all over, and driven aorund in a truck, glassed, and after finding a shootable animal, "stalked" aka walked to the open ridgeline opposite the one the animal is on (or above the animal if it is in the valley), resting rifle on rock/pack/etc. and then shooting it from 300 + yards....NOT any harder than bow hunting(or rifle huniting in alot of cases) here in TX..using corn or not...HECK, we didn't even wear camo to conceal ourselves and the animals just stood there and watched us...

Walking the ridlines of Idaho, CO, etc....yes, it is physically harder, however, when you know where the animals are going to be because of weather/food souce/etc...they are easy to find, and very easy to see(because of the snow and large trees the undergrowth is mucho less thick than here in TX), and therefore kill....agian, skill wise, not harder than hunting(if you scouted/patterned the deer yourself) here in TX.....

Hunting over a food source is just that -- NO MATTER the food source.....hunting over a trail is just that NO MATTER if it's on the way to a feeder or a water hole or a field of soybeans....

I hunt in W TX, so i can do some spot and stalk, and do when time allows. I also watch trails that lead to feeders. I also watch feeders, especially when hunting with kids...so they can see alot of animals...But, if I want to kill the "bull of the woods" I hunt the trails to the feeders, since I have rarely seen a "monster" at the feeder....unless he's "locked up" with one of the ladies!

The skill set is the same whether you use corn or not: tracking, finding bedding areas, finding watering holes, what the rubs and scrapes mean-and how mature the deer is that made them, knowing which trails the mature bucks use vice the ones the does and young deer use. Then, based on the above, knowing where to put a food plot, feeder, brush blind, tripod, etc....

Sorry for the length, but talking down someone on their chosen LEGAL method of hunting tends to get me a bit riled....

Heck, I am such a good hunter that the deer run up to me and kill themselves....:-)

I don't use a feeder, but I hunt in clothes that were soaked in glue and then were rolled in corn. Now when I go hunting or is it baiting, I just lay down and once I feel a nibble or two, I raise up and kill them with my dull letter opener. Now that is true hunting----errrr----baiting.

That cow will cost a lot more then 900. Just FYI

But remember this when deer didn't have value..they where shot onsite by farmers and ranches... To the point 90 % of the US had to have reintroductions of WT's...many from south Texas.

Gripe complain and condemn all you want...but there is a reason why the whitetail deer is not extinct...value is also the reason why here in Texas why some species from around the world have larger numbers here then their native homelands.

BOBO the Clown,

You seem to be as passionate about hunting, and the outdoors as I am. I wasn't griping, complaining , or condemning. I was just pointing out some things. In all fairness, I was out last weekend helping my neighbor put up a feeder at his brother's place down in Malakoff. Will I be sitting in a stand Saturday morning overlooking that feeder? No. Will I be a little further up the trail trying to shoot the monster buck that is headed for my neighbors feeder that my neighbor hopes he will get a shot at? Absoloutely! :-)

As for the whitetail population being decimated at the turn of the century I wasn't aware of that, but it sounds like deer were viewed then the same way ferral hogs are viewed now, so I say to all the hunters on the forum enjoy the pig hunting now because history always repeats itself.

On the exotic species front, maybe the high fenced hunting ranches here will get lucky and the locals will kill off all of the aoudad in North Africa. Then the ranches here can charge $20,000 to go out on the ranch and shoot one without fear that a young aoudad couple might escape and procreate in the dirty public hunting lands and tiny hunting leases that flank them.

This is my favorite part of the entire hunting experience. It's the anticipation. When you hunt one deer and finally kill him, it is over. Nothing else to look forward to. Almost depressing really.

So you don't call sitting on a trail waiting to ambush deer going to a feeder hunting a feeder?
You need to research a little more before you post. Aoudads are free ranging in West Texas and have been for a very long time. They are in the Panhandle and used to have a season on them in the Palo Duro Canyon area if I remember right. Herds of 100's at a time can be seen at times on ranches nowday in some areas. All free range.

you can't hunt deer now if there's a feeder within a mile without patterning their feeder a-goin' or avoiding habits.

This is why we should be more concerned with putting a fence on the northern borders of Texas than the southern border.

At the turn of the century, the reason there were not many deer is that the screwworm had not been eradicated. Once the screw worm was eradicated, the whitetail population took off.

From what I have read, the game populations (not just deer) were down at the turn of the century because there were no closed seasons or limits. Many states implemented controls and the deer populations began increasing. But they really took of in the late 50's and 60's after the screworm problem was "solved"

x2 Populations were at all time lows at the turn of the century due to commercial meat hunting not screw worms.

I hunt deer and kill pigs. Have not shoot a deer in ten years not because i don't see them, it's because i'm still waiting on the one better they the one I got. But i will lay pigs down like someone stacking cord wood. We shoot until i run out of ammo. Hate the naste little S@%^.

Sitting in a stand 50 yards from a feeder that a deer has been coming to eat at 364 days out of a year and then blasting him with your .300 winmag is not hunting in my opinion. It is more along the lines of baiting. That deer is just as tame as the cow that is standing next to it when you kill it. but to each his own, and as long as the deer is being eaten it doesnt really matter how its taken. (just not much fun for me)

Might be that Black Leg had a little to do with the loss of
the population....Mississippi, and Alabama went to other states
to replace theirs. Controlled burns are only as good as the
weather permits, and the person doing it has experience, and even
then they can be risky. But the upside is new growth in about 20
days, and loss of brush, ect. Texas has more deer now than it did when I was young in the late 50's early 60's. But the drought isn't helping...DD

Being that I'm grew up hunting Oklahoma also...corn feeders in high pressure areas are only good two times a year for bucks...bow season, and rut. Rest of the time they bring the pups in to help pass the day.

I see no differance in a big white oak or alafafa field... Same thing as a deer feeder maybe even more deadly depending on pressure.... And nothing beats an uncut soybean feild in late December.

Different strokes different folks.

Kind of like mulie deer hunting...want to kill a 190 in CO.. findi the right alafafa feild bam..done in less then a day.

Want to kill a antelope find the water...bam...done in 20 Mins

Hey okie if the deer are so tame at my feeder why do they run like satan is after them if I make an errant move or catch my scent? Or are you are just a hater of Texas style hunting.

I'll try to put my $,02 in here without ending up sitting next to Frenzy as I have already found out Texans get riled up real easy when you dont agree with them....grin

The term harvest is directly related to agriculture. Many Texans have taken up farming deer as well as exotics inside high fences for personal enjoyment or monetary investments. As soon as you start providing non-native specific foods to the animals to alter their diet and controlling their travels with no intention but to grow them and selectively removing the ones as you see fit, you enter the realm of harvesting as opposed to hunting. You are removing the wild element from the animal and making them somewhat domesticated. I would never vote against this type of hunting though it does personally make me a bit nauscious. What a lot of hunters dont realize is that the anti's dont want us to hunt at all and any chance they get to get us to turn against each other there objective has been met! Feeder hunting in Texas is understandibly one of the only ways to draw these small animals out of the thick and potentially harmful foliage they live in, a lot like hunting black bears over bait in a thick spruce forest, its the only way your gonna see em. Unfortunately for Texas, whitetail deer is the only native big game species in most of the state and therefore it seems that corn is somehow connected to all deer hunting be it by stationary feeder, tailgate feeder or a guy sprinkling it by hand. Tis what it is.

I would love to see the reaction of a guy thats hunted deer off a feeder his whole life hunt mule deer,elk , or bear in the western US without a guide. Shoot just living out of a backpack with minimal gear and making fires to eat with, dry wet gear, and keep warm would potentially be challenging. Spotting animals miles away with challenging terrain between you and your quarry, setting up a multi hour/day stalk, racing to beat dark and or the animals normal movements that will have it leave its last known loacation and then single handidly butchering said critter in the field and humping that meat by foot back to camp only to care for it for days before returning to the civilized world........now thats my kind of hunting!

Gone for day's now and this thing still just won't DIE!

I get it Rustler, you dont want to hear any opinions except for your own, imagine that makes discussions real easy.

Maybe the reason no-one is slamming me, is they read all of my post. Or none of it. Take your pick. I think you have been pretty respectful in your postings, the ones I have read anyway. I do see some getting pretty bent out of shape here, but some people are pretty passionate. Passion will often be defended aggressively.

baiting, Hunting, Selective Harvesting, Trapping, etc...Call it whatever makes you feel good. The fact is, it's the way it's done here in most of the state, most of the southern states. And if you poll hunters in states that don't allow baiting deer, I bet we'd all be surprised at the amount of them that would bait deer if they were allowed.

The small amount of public hunting land here in Tx does not allow baiting deer or other animals. But there's certainly no shortage of hunters willing to utilize it. What would be the first thing they'd go buy if they/when they get on a hunting lease? A feeder, of course.

This subject can be debated til the end of time. There will always be a division over it. Just like hunters who use recurve bows vs compound bows, compound bows vs crossbows, muzzle loader vs metallic cartridge, and so on. I do what I feel is the most productive method, by law. It is the way I've hunted all my life, and I see nothing wrong with it. I passed many a small deer up this past weekend. So by my view, I am "selectively harvesting" deer. I saw a few deer this weekend a lot of people would have shot. I would never condemn them for shooting whatever makes them happy. That's what makes it so great....So many different views, and there's something new to learn from just about anyone.

I wish I was a good enough hunter to kill this thread. But since I am not I will chime in about what I have learned about "real" hunters over the years. Thanks to this forum I can spot a "real" hunter a mile away.

"Real" hunters do the following:

1. Question your choice of weapon. Guns are not as manly a bows, bows not as manly as knives, etc. Whatever you hunt with they will hunt with something more primitive than you. I once told a "real" hunter I hunted with a rock and he gave me sh*t for not using my bare hands.
2. Question where you setup. "I can't believe you hunt out of a...(choose any of the following) blind, pop-up, tripod, or tree stand." I real hunter only stalks on foot unless he is talking to someone who stalks on foot then he claims to walk on his hands to challenge himself.
3. Question why you use "bait." This is one of my favorites. "Real" hunting doesn't involve corn, water, food plots, acorns, or scents. In order to shoot, a "real" hunter must first establish that a buck is simply out for a stroll and NOT looking for food, water, sex or a fight.
4. Question your shot placement. If you take neck-shots they will take head-shots. If you take head-shots they only shoot in one ear and out the other, etc.
5. Question your modern conveniences. Why drive a car and stay in a trailer when you can hike in and out, sleep on the ground, and wipe your butt with dry leaves and pine cones?
6. Finally, "real" hunters cannot just be content in knowing that they are "real" hunters. They can only maintain their "real" status by explaining to everyone else exactly why they are NOT "real" hunters. (See statements 1-5) This is their most distinguishing characteristic.

Anyway, I gotta go...it's a 20 mile hike to my lease and I want to get there in time to sight in my rocks.

what size rock do you use and does it have sharp edges???

pea gravel!!!!!