shooting uphill....where to aim

Lyman 48th Edition, page 107, paragraph 5:

"The distance a bullet travels in relation to the earth's center, or gravitational pull, from the muzzle to the target is what determines how far a bullet will drop in a given time span. With a steep up or down angle, he distance to the target will be longer than the distance the bullet travels in relation to the earth's center. Rather than dropping the amount we expect for the distance traveled to the target, the bullet actually will drop for the distance it travels in relation to the earth's center. The steeper the angle, the shorter that distance becomes."

So, the distance that the bullet travels
in relation to good old terra firma, not the angle
at which it is shot, determines the drop?

Code:

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  So, the distance that the bullet travels 
in relation to good old terra firma, not the angle
at which it is shot, determines the drop? 

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Thats not what is says, you ain't getting off that easy.

Basically...

I've seen a lot of rangefinders lately that do the math for you. They calculate the actual range, then subtract "X" based on the angles.

There is a formula you could use, but it would be very complicated. Certainly more than this country boy could figure out on the fly. But it really is not much of a factor (for rifles) unless you start talking about long distances or extreme angles.

Or, it makes a big difference when you are bowhunting from an elevated postition. Even a shot from 25-30 yards could sail completely over the back of Mr. Big Rack if the angle-to-target is not taken into account.

OK, how's this: I was wroooooo...
I was wroooooo...
OK, I made a misttttttt....

Alright, tell me this, how low do I need to start
aiming? One inch in all cases seems a bit static
for the many variables.

OK, I may not have been exactly correct.
THERE WORLD WIDE WEB, ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??

PK

Since you were wrong, you must buy one of these new-fangled gizmos for both of us so that we both know where to aim.

Besides, we are all entitled to being mistaken once a year, and luckily for you, it is November. I made mine in February, so I've been on pins and needles ever since.

Between the drinks and gadgets
this is costing me a small fortune.
I need to leave these discussions to
folks with book learn'n.

They're on me if we ever meet guys,
PK

I concur, its the lateral distance the bullet travels not the actual distance up or down hill. However, aiming high or low comes into play when calculating bullet path through vitals after impact.

This is an exellent article regarding uphill/downhill shooting. It helps to re-read it a couple of times. (To me anyway, lol.) Shooters tend to be way off when estimating the angle of the shot. I 'dope' my angles with a Slope Doper like the article talks about when I shoot long range, kind of difficult when hunting, but its something you take time to do when elk hunting in the mountains- before the elk shows up.

PK!!!! Wait!!!! Don't buy! I'll take half of Phillip's action...

LOW, both ways...always.

Draw it out....on paper....use a dotted line for line of sight(straight), and a solid line (arc) for bullet travel...

Coors Light please.

I'll call that half of the action! I'm going to turn into a lush before this threads over with.

Correction!!

Bigger Lush.

Hummmmmmmmmmm

Y'all are kill'n me!!!!

If I start cuss'n or name call'n will one
of you dern moderators delete this thread?!?!

Range=distance from point a to point b in
relative parallel(sp) to the earth (where
gravity pulls from). That's my story and...
you know the rest. So, OK, if you need
to aim low to send your bullet thru the vitals
of an animal, aim low. I'm fine within my "range".

BUT VERILY I SAY TO YOU: I'M ONLY BUYING DRINKS
FOR 2 AT A TIME!!!! SO PICK YOUR MEETING TIMES WISELY!


PK

I would never lead you a-stray sir!

I've seen alot of talk here. No one has posted the answer. In relation to a even plain a 30-30 sighted dead on / 1 inch high at 100 yards is going to be low at 200 yards depending on the grain of bullet used. So HOW is it reasonable to aim LOW both ways???

I would understand if shooting up hill you bullet would strike lower than normal vs shooting down hill your bullet would strike higher than normal. ( not sure this is right just speculation ) but how can you say it is the same both ways? On a flat plain you would have to aim HIGH at 200 yards to compensate for bullet drop AKA gravity.

Maby you would have to aim low at a steep down hill angle... I dont know. Not sure on this topic. Looking for the answer.

I do know that aiming low both ways dose not make ANY sence.

Just a short brief explanation & example about up/downhill shooting. It away requires hold under or low in both cases from normal horizontal shooting. This is because of the vector of the force of gravity is less when shooting at angles other than perpendicular to gravity. Just like wind hitting your vehicle at an angle is less force than wind hitting vehicle from the side.

Say you sighted in your gun to be +1.5” at 100 yards and the bullet was dead center on target at 200 yards (firing horizontal on range).

What if your game is way beyond 200yards?

You would have to click up from this setting to hit dead center at greater distance. Charts all reflect horizontal shooting ballistics and you would find needed hold for your distance.

What if your target is up/down 45 degrees?

1-Take the true distance to your target (slant range)
2-Multiply this times the cosine of the angle of fire.
3-This always gives you a shorter (lateral) distance to use for doping.

Then the new computed distance is the distance you would use to determine your amount of clicks MOA (from your above sighting in @ 200 yards horizontal) or hold for this shot.

Example:
1-400 yd slant range distance (with range finder)
2-@ 45 degrees (cosine is 0.707)
3-400 x 0.707 = 282.8 yards. So you would need to adjust for the additional 82.8 yard beyond your sight in of 200 yard horizontal dead center.

You would dope your shot as if you were shooting at target that is at 82.8 yards more than the 200 yards setting you made at range.

Look at some of the new range finder that give you the slant range / angle / cosine / and corrected distance to use to adjust for. Then you use your ballistic table to find the drop for this corrected angle/ distance and click or hold as needed.

Read the attached links regarding up/down hill shooting. It will give you a more acccurate and complete means to figure the shots. There is a very small difference in up /down calculations. Maybe 1 inch difference at 500 yard @ 30 degrees. Do I get an ice tea Mike? I bet a lot of game has been shoot over by feet. A lot of beers have been won on this one!



INCLINED FIRE
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/article1.html


Rifleman's rule
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifleman's_rule

I'm not sure what you don't understand. I'll repost this from my previous response to this thread.

Lyman 48th Edition, page 107, paragraph 5:

"The distance a bullet travels in relation to the earth's center, or gravitational pull, from the muzzle to the target is what determines how far a bullet will drop in a given time span. With a steep up or down angle, he distance to the target will be longer than the distance the bullet travels in relation to the earth's center. Rather than dropping the amount we expect for the distance traveled to the target, the bullet actually will drop for the distance it travels in relation to the earth's center. The steeper the angle, the shorter that distance becomes."

"And I’m pretty sure you don't understand what you posted. When read correctly, it's simply telling you that there will be less drop in incline shots as apposed to horizontal shots."

Isn't that the whole point of this thread?

" /|
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ |
Angle / |
Path / |
/ |Vertical Component
/ |
/___________|
Horizontal Component"

The force of gravity is all that makes a bullet fall. It only affects the horizontal component of the angled shot, up or down hill.

Sorry, it's a pain to draw the down hill shot. There was a good article about it a year ago or so in one of the rifle magazines, maybe American Hunter.

OK, the dang blasted computer looks great when I type it, but my triangle collapses when posted, but draw a right triangle, if you are shooting at the angled side(hypotenuse), the base leg or horizontal component is all that's affected by gravity in the vector equations that determine the flight path, arc, velocity and energy.