Shooting Problem

I am not sure where to post this question but here goes. My wife and I are getting ready to take a hunting trip and we have been shooting off of some sticks. Now here is the problem, shooting the same gun with ammo from the same box, her shots are 2-4" low and 2-4" to the right, my shots are where the gun was sighted in 2 years ago, 2" high and centered. What is she doing that causes her shots to go astray? ANYONE GOT AN IDEA? Need help in a hurry, we leave the 19th. Thanks

Easy way to fix a shooting problem is this:

Have her face down the range with her back to you. You work the action on the gun before each shot and make sure she can't see what you are doing. Actually put a shell in the gun for the first 3 shots, then on the fourth shot...don't.

When the trigger falls, you should be able to see if she is pulling, or relaxing, or flinching, etc.

Good Luck

is she shooting right handed and pulling the trigger when she shoots?

My son and I had similar problem with 300 win mag, what we figured out was the position of my eye to scope was different than his, when I adjusted to similar eye relief our groups were closer. This is only gun where we had that issue....

sounds like shes pulling in anticipaiton of the recoil...

Seen this problem with someone sighting in a rifle for someone else. Guy sighting it in is dead on the target and the guy who gets his rifle back has to re-zero the groups a bit for him to get the same zero. Put her on the bench with good sandbags or rest and see what the groups do then in comparison to yours.

All of the above could contribute to teh difference in impact. How you each use the sticks can be an influence as well. Just like shooting with tight sling and no use of sling for shooting can make a difference, or gun positioning on sandbags can make a difference.

The gun starts moving from recoil before hte bullet leaves the barrel, anthing that change that pattern can change point of impact some. As well as pulling the trigger, flinching, eye positioning all can affect opint of impact

if she is grouping then i would get her own gun my younger brother can not shoot one of mine he has to have one sighted in for him if you sight it in he'll shoot high and to the right everytime but in very tight groups

I was always taught to put a dime on the barrel. You should be able to balance it and pull the trigger without knocking it off. (dry firing)

I would check her eye relief to insure that she's not too far nor too close to the scope. Also check her cheek weld to the stock and make sure she's got a proper hold and position on the rifle. If she's seeing shadow anywhere in the scope, then her eye relief is off and needs to be adjusted.

Any more ideas or suggestions? I will try some of the above suggestions this afternoon with her. Thanks Daniel

I'll bet she's pulling the trigger.. not squeezing. This will almost always cause the shots to go right and low on a right handed shooter. Try dry firing practice to train her not to anticiapte the shot. Adjusting the trigger pull lighter will help as well. What's the trigger set at? Is it crisp?

I agree. It's something that I have to be very careful with myself.

She need's to train her mind to focus separately on squeezing the trigger and holding an aimpoint on the target. A lot of shooters will try to jerk the trigger as the cross-hairs sweep past the aimpoint. And when they jerk, it naturally jerks the aim point off the target. Tell her that it's like that old trick we so often tried as kids where we rubbed our stomach and patted our heads at the same time. As the aim point is held, the trigger is slowly squeezed independently and without atttempting to making the gun fire at a precise point during the aiming proceess.

Of course this points to why trigger creep is such a bad thing. When the trigger has creep, it becomes much more difficult for the shooter not to anticipate the shot. The pull and break point of any trigger should be clean and crisp, much like breaking a glass rod that's held on end between two fingers as pressure is pulled against it at its midpoint. The exact time when the rod snaps and breaks, like a crisp trigger, is not known, nor is it anticipated, by the shooter.

A lot of guys will go out and spend $1200 on an expensive scope and believe that it makes them an instant marksman. The truth is, many of them would be much better off just paying a a good gunsmith $100 or so to give their rifle a great trigger.

What good are expensive optics if you can't hit what you see so much better?

Move the POA up 3" and left 3", then use as an excuse to buy a new rifle.

How is the trigger on the gun? You may be use to a heavier trigger than her.

The gun is a Browning A-Bolt II with the trigger set at approx 2.75 and is clean & crisp.

Dkershen, What exactly do you mean by pulling the trigger?

Check her finger placement on the trigger. Try to get her to use just the pad of the finger above the first joint. If her finger is on the trigger below the first joint and she's jerking the trigger it might cause the problem you describe.

Less finger on the trigger and squeeze instead of jerk. I always tell new shooters that the squeeze should be slow and steady. When the rifle goes off it should surprise the shooter.

Pulling or jerking the trigger instead of squeezing. But at less than 3 lbs on a crisp trigger it shouldn't be a problem. Stumped now.

"Stumped now."


Me Too!!!!!
_________________________

What LP sez +1.
It should be a surprise when the gun goes off when using "a light crisp trigger" and squeezing gently with just the finger pad ...and NOT pulling with the inside joint or 2nd pad of the trigger finger.

I have trouble with rifle gunstocks that have little skinny wrists, great big fat wrists like an African Safari Rifle has, or the grip is too "closed" ie. the hand placement is "crowded" because the arc of the grip is too small...and not "open" enough.
Look at a Marlin M39 22LR rifle with it's "pistol" grip wrist and a carbine's straight handgrip....or Win 94's straight grip.
Ron

OBTW I remember one of my son's who was anticpating the trigger fall and leaning or pushing into the rifle butt with his shoulder...causing the barrel to swing slightly to the right and usually a tad low. this is the opposite of flinching or jerking the trigger. I switched him to a hammerless rifle from the Marlin 39 we were learning on. I think the "low POI" is from a bad sight picture in a 6 O'Clock hold instead of centering the crosshairs on an aiming dot. Try a blank clean no grid 8 1/2x11 piece of paper for a target with an aiming point stick on for a target to concentrate her crosshair focus point...
hence the aim small miss small adage.
RV

WC, we are shooting at 8 1/2 x 11's with a 1 inch dot in the center.

Sounds like a paralax (sp?) problem. Try this - with your cheek resting on the stock, knod your head slightly. If the reticle moves in relation to the target, the paralax is out of adjustment. Her cheek weld is different than yours.

Does the scope on this rifle have a paralax adjustment or is it fixed?

A common mistake newbies make when shooting off sticks is to grab the barrel while holding the sticks on the forend. Depending on the rifle (and how/if it's bedded) this can cause a change in POI. Make sure your left hand (if right handed) is only grabbing the sticks and the stock of the rifle....hands off the barrel!!

If not that, then I'd think it's a flinch. If she's right handed, there's a tendency to push down and to the left to try to compensate for the recoil. Have her go back to a .22 and start afresh.

Sounds like you're going to Africa? Wherever it is, have fun!!

Regards,
Scott

BTW, I'm not insinuating that she is a "newbie" to shooting, but maybe just not real familiar with shooting sticks

Scott

Scott, Right on destination. She has been shooting for about 4 years or so but not on sticks but neither have I. Her gun is a Ruger 7-08 but we are practing on the sticks with a Browning A-Bolt 30-06 with 125 grain bullets. There she will be shooting a 270 with 130's but my 270 is heavy (stainless & laminated stock) and I felt that the 06 with 125's would be a close comparison for her to get used to a little more recoil. I plan on letting her try the 270 to see how much if any difference it makes in POI.

Thats a cool trick, thanks for sharing.

I had a Browning SS 7mag that I flinched on so bad it was embarrasing. I traded the gun for a horse for the grandkids. I have always been more accurate with a smaller caliber gun. I know I could train myself out of the flinch but I love archery anyway. When I want to get some meat I grab the trusty 6mm and get it done.

It sounds like you have thought this through and have a pretty good plan! I gotta tell you though, if she's comfortable with the 7mm-08 then I think you should consider taking it. This is potentially a once-in-a-lifetime trip and having a rifle that she's comfortable and effective with might make it a trip she wants to repeat instead of forget.

However, if you're set on using the 270 then I'd get some reduced recoil rounds for the 30.06 and some to take for the 270 (btw, your PH will love it if you bring some ammo and leave it with them!).

I'm sure you already know this but there's a considerable difference in felt recoil between the .270/30.06 and the 7mm-08 too BTW.

Sticks are tricky!! I practiced for several weeks prior to my trip and wish I'd done more.

Africa's an incredible destination and I'd hate for her to not get the most out of it!

Post pics when you get back!

Regards,
Scott

Fold a tshirt or cloth over a couple of times to raise her 1/2" or so off the stock. She is hitting low because her eye sits lower than yours. Due to paralax offset, she has to push the rifle down to get the reticle on the target. I've seen this a million times in competitive long range shooting.

why not shoot the 7mm08, it will get it done in africa as well as a 270,, people use the 7mag all the time, same bullet,, just a question for thought..

We are not taking our rifles because of the head aches involved with flying with guns and This is supposed to be a fun trip. The outfitter has several guns available for use and can get more if neccesary.

Jvaught, We are going to give your idea a try to see if that corrects the problem and if it does, I will buy a cheek piece to take with us just in case she has the same problem there.