Texas Hunting Forum
Domestication lamentation
Posted By: PKnTX
Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 03:49 PM
From my understanding there are 3 things required to
bring about the domestication of a species:
*Providing supplemental or substantial food source
in order to promote desired physical traits and to
manipulate inherent behavior.
*Confinement to restrict natural movement, protect from
predation and to secure ownership.
*Use of selective breeding and/or husbandry to promote
predetermined traits for commercial or social use.
Does any of this seem familiar?
Cattle, horses, sheep, swine, goats and very
soon, whitetail deer. Domesticated animals.
It took hundreds of years to accomplish the domestication
of the barnyard animals we use today.
Advanced animal husbandry techniques alone
could reduce this to just a few generations.
Add the use of cloning (being used on WT deer for a while now)
and a new improved made to order Trophy Whitetail
mount for your wall (and everyone else) will be just
a short drive, improvised campfire scene
outside the lodge and a right on time at the
feed trough "hunt" away.
I can do without a dead animal of any kind
hanging in my home so the high cost of killing
a Trophy Buck is not a major concern to me.
It's the spill over effect current attitudes
and actions have on access to hunting that bother
me somewhat.
No need to "inform" me that hunting is
a business or remark about my lack
of understanding the facts. I see the wheels
are in motion and there's too much money
at stake to tap the brakes now. I know
these things so no need to educate me.
But I don't have to like it.
And I don't.
Not in an angry way.
More of a sad, nostalgic way.
PK
Posted By: cajundave
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 03:55 PM
Posted By: Txduckman
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 03:57 PM
That's why I have duck hunting, turkey hunting, dove hunting, predator hunting, etc in my front pocket knowing I can always do that for a lot less than the deer. I'll leave the trophy deer hunting to the professionals but still hunt deer for the solitude, fun, and meat.
Posted By: PKnTX
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 04:03 PM
Quote:
That's why I have duck hunting, turkey hunting, dove hunting, predator hunting, etc in my front pocket knowing I can always do that for a lot less than the deer. I'll leave the trophy deer hunting to the professionals but still hunt deer for the solitude, fun, and meat.
Yeah, these other types of hunting should be my new focus.
I've deer hunted just for the amount of meat you get
when successful. Guess more time in the field going
after other game may be the ticket. Darn, more time
in the field, what a sacrifice 
Posted By: dogcatcher
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 04:04 PM
Whitetail deer are already raised for their meat, so are elk and other formerly wild animal. There is an elk ranch that raises them near Lubbock and a deer ranch near Eden, these are not hunting ranches these are for meat production.
Will there be more? Probably, as these are only 2 that I know of, but I have heard of others.
Posted By: Fistula
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 04:13 PM
What about mammals that are landlocked on an island?
You would both be eating the same food.
Would that make you Domestication Lamentation dude?
Posted By: Rwuensch
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 04:20 PM
Quote:
What about mammals that are landlocked on an island?
You would both be eating the same food.
Would that make you Domestication Lamentation dude?
Posted By: Fistula
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 04:58 PM
I doubt there would be any popcorn on the island.
Cmon.
Posted By: Rwuensch
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 05:00 PM
Quote:
I doubt there would be any popcorn on the island.
Cmon.
You never know, might be able to pop some deer corn.
LOL
Posted By: PHishTX
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 05:02 PM
Yep and Yep,
Right there with ya PK. It is SAD !
I do my darndest to not $upport deer hunting as a busine$$, when it used to be a tradition. There are just too many folks that will.
I still deer hunt on our place (it is a farm first) but cuz there are deer there. It has been a tradition through generations. We are selective in our harvest i.e doe, mature bucks. Yada yada. We like to see 'em grow up and have big horns, Plus my granddad's sausage recipe is awsome, no matter how big the horns were. But no feeders, protein or mineral blocks, scrape drips and all that other BS. Deer herd and population has done fine without it for generations. Livestock would just eat it up anyways.
It is a GREAT place to raise my kids in farming/hunting/working and playing outdoors. (I am truly blessed)
But the curse of the deer industy is trying to tresspass on my place through the TPWD..(13"AR,etc.)....Who knows what they'll do next. I can't even "tap the brakes" at my property line. It is VERY SAD in a nostalgic way and I AM ANGRY about it.
I do not spend my money on the industry that deer hunting has become. I wish I could (shoot hogs) and just let my kids hunt, without me getting a TX license. So I don't have to support the TPWDs deeper and deeper involvement in the trophy deer industy either.
I spend my hunting money out of state to go hunting with family and friends. DIY on public land, and my 3-boys will be going with me as SOON as they can. That will be 4x the $$$ TPWD and TTHA won't be getting from this wallet. May not be much but it is the least I can do.
Carry on,
Posted By: Big Orn
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 05:04 PM
I know what you mean, PK. I've been going through that same mood for a few years now and, yes, it's getting worse. Thing is with me, I grew up in an "open hunting" environment, where folks would always let you hunt for the asking and sometimes call and ask when you were gonna get around to "killin' off some o'these dang deer" at their farm.
Back then "trophy bucks" were never mentioned. Neither was "hunting leases" - but we were at least 50 miles from any city and almost all the landowners were local.
Another thing is that you could jump off the school bus, grab your rifle and hunt until dark, which was only a couple of hours or so afterwards. Each deer, doe or buck, got you plenty of praise from family and friends. Heck, some farmers would even buy you ammo if you hunted their patches.
Posted By: 7mag
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 05:05 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dang it Phillip!!!!
Why did you have to throw in the Whitetail deer????
Posted By: holdem
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 05:18 PM
Hunt hogs !!!! KAP - kill all pigs.
Posted By: Fistula
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 05:31 PM
I seriously believe the demise of all outdoor recreational activities on private and public land:
Hunting
Boating
Fishing
Camping
Off road mototcycling/ 4 wheelin
And others
Will cease to exist in X amount of years because the ones currently enjoying these activities can and will not agree on any compromise in regards on what they "Believe" is the best way it should be done.
The greenies keep getting stronger and stronger while we keep doing our own thing. Bitching about the other participants of said sport doing it their "incorrect" way.
There are what, 500,000 Californians staying in shelters because the greenies wouldn't let the HOMEOWNERS/Developers cut fire breaks on THEIR property or in their communities.
Just wait till they decide they want to put deer on their to-do list.
Posted By: Crazyhorse
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:02 PM
While we may end up with white tails and elk that are somewhat habituated to humans and human manipulation, white tails/elk/American Buffalo/canada geese, will never become fully domesticated, at least not in any one on this forums lifetime.
There is a factor involved in the individual physiology that seperates the animals that can be/are domesticated, and those that will for the most part always remain wild.
How many folks concsider house cats or pigs as truly domesticated animals, say in comparison to dogs or cattle?????
We all know that the situation concerning deer hunting sucks, how many of us are willing to see land owners lose their rights to do as they wish with the land they own????
Anybody want to answer that???
How many of you are old enough to remember the days when deer were not worth anything to landowners, in fact, were considered pests???????
PK, you can not dislike it any worse than I do, but I am a realist, and the folks to blame are the ones that participate on this and any other hunting forum.
If "Hunters" had not started placing a premium on deer antlers, a lot of this would not have happened.
Also, you have to take the continual aspect of human evolution into account.
Humans, especially AMERICAN MALES, Between the ages of 18 and 45, have to make EVERYTHING THEY DO, into a contest.
Those of us that don't buy into the bigger/better/faster/etc. etc. mentality are looked upon as lesser individuals.
No longer has the fact that a person goes out and kills a deer come to mean anything, now it only counts if the B&C or P&Y score is above a certain point.
This is another of those threads that will go nowhere fast.
We can't put things back to the way they were in the 50's and 60's and 70's, and those that were not there during those times, have no working concept of what it was like, no matter how hard we try to explain it.
Posted By: Big Orn
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:14 PM
Quote:
I seriously believe the demise of all outdoor recreational activities on private and public land:
Hunting
Boating
Fishing
Camping
Off road mototcycling/ 4 wheelin
And others
Will cease to exist in X amount of years because the ones currently enjoying these activities can and will not agree on any compromise in regards on what they "Believe" is the best way it should be done.
The greenies keep getting stronger and stronger while we keep doing our own thing. Bitching about the other participants of said sport doing it their "incorrect" way.
There are what, 500,000 Californians staying in shelters because the greenies wouldn't let the HOMEOWNERS/Developers cut fire breaks on THEIR property or in their communities.
Just wait till they decide they want to put deer on their to-do list.
It's one thing to say hunting will suffer - which it already has in my opinion - and yet another to say that it will go away because hunters disagree. Hunting, in general, has changed, no doubt, but not because hunters disagree amongst ourselves, but because we don't stand up and disagree enough with non-hunters. Let's call a spade a spade and end the friendly fire. One report from the meetings at TPWD stated that they couldn't get enough input from a community (which happens in alot of communities) because not enough folks (hunters) showed up. We, as much as biologists and/or zoologists, need to make our concerns known at those meetings.
If our absence from meetings where we're asked to attend and give our input is shoddy, just think about all those meetings that take place where we're not invited - where we should be as well - that directly affect us?
I bet those folks will want to make their opinions known in California now. Whether they get off their arses and do it, though, is another thing altogether.
Posted By: PKnTX
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:31 PM
Quote:
If "Hunters" had not started placing a premium on deer antlers, a lot of this would not have happened.
Also, you have to take the continual aspect of human evolution into account.
Humans, especially AMERICAN MALES, Between the ages of 18 and 45, have to make EVERYTHING THEY DO, into a contest.
Those of us that don't buy into the bigger/better/faster/etc. etc. mentality are looked upon as lesser individuals.
I completely agree with this.
I never had any illusions about this
thread going anywhere, making a difference
or even being taken seriously. Don't have
enough of an investment in the situation to
even warrant alot of heartburn. Just what
I've been thinking about some lately.
Landowners have got to make money when/where
they can and I have NO problem with that.
On the other subject, I am NOT inclined to
get along with or agree with anyone or condone
what they do just because they are a hunter or
outdoorsperson. If that makes me a divider then
so be it. PETA or any other anti group is just
another bunch of extremists that when brought
out into the open most rational people would
distance themselves from. Kinda like some of
us hunters. 
PK
Posted By: Crazyhorse
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:40 PM
Quote:
I bet those folks will want to make their opinions known in California now. Whether they get off their arses and do it, though, is another thing altogether.
This is the very attitude that will end up killing hunting in Texas and all across the U.S..
I have been preaching this since I joined this forum.
TOO MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE.
Too many folks stand around saying, "It'll never change, It'll never change, Well I'll be damned, it changed".
The make up of the population of Texas has changed radically over the past 10 years, and people are not paying attention.
It is not 2008 yet, and Texas' population is headed for the 30 million mark, a number that we were not predicted to reach until 2015 or later. We are probably going to reach it by 2010.
Folks, if ALL of us that hunt, together with our whole family that is voting age, turned out for a general election vote on the future of hunting in Texas, We Would Lose, PERIOD.
I think a lot of folks realize that and are just setting back, planning on enjoying the sport, until the Fat Lady Sings.
I think many folks out there, that are not members of this forum, have seen the hand writing on the wall and are just going to make the best of a bad situation till the end comes.
Can someone help me on this one?
1st. Find out how many registered voters there are in Texas.
2nd. Find out how many resident hunting license were sold in 2006.
3rd. See what the % difference there is between license buying hunters and registered voter numbers.
As for the folks in California losing their homes, it is all said in the piece I saw last night. Suzanne Summers, lost her home last year in the fires. She turned right around and moved back into the same area and built a new house.
Look at how many folks here in Texas keep building homes in known - histrorical flood plains.
Humans are the problem, always have been, always will be.
Until some catastrophe overtakes us that eliminates over 50% of the earths population, and our attention is turned from decadence to "Am I Gonna Live Till Tomorrow", it is only going to get worse.
Just My Chicken Little Opinion!!!
Posted By: Fistula
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:41 PM
Members join the Sierra Club/PETA and back whatever they say because it's good for the environment/earth/wildlife.
Whether it's trees, snails, butterflies or elk, they have the power as a whole to stick together for the fight. And they do it very well unfortunately.
Take 3 hunters. One guy trapping coons, one running hogs with dogs, one high fence exotic ranch owner selling trophy whitetail hunts.
It's safe to say these 3 will never really care about what the other does. But in the big picture, each will be effected by laws placed on hunters in general.
We need to be more acceptable of how others legally run their hunts, ranches. You may never have to take part in it, but your future generations may have to.
Posted By: Fistula
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:44 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I bet those folks will want to make their opinions known in California now. Whether they get off their arses and do it, though, is another thing altogether.
This is the very attitude that will end up killing hunting in Texas and all across the U.S..
I have been preaching this since I joined this forum.
TOO MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE.
Too many folks stand around saying, "It'll never change, It'll never change, Well I'll be damned, it changed".
The make up of the population of Texas has changed radically over the past 10 years, and people are not paying attention.
It is not 2008 yet, and Texas' population is headed for the 30 million mark, a number that we were not predicted to reach until 2015 or later. We are probably going to reach it by 2010.
Folks, if ALL of us that hunt, together with our whole family that is voting age, turned out for a general election vote on the future of hunting in Texas, We Would Lose, PERIOD.
I think a lot of folks realize that and are just setting back, planning on enjoying the sport, until the Fat Lady Sings.
I think many folks out there, that are not members of this forum, have seen the hand writing on the wall and are just going to make the best of a bad situation till the end comes.
Can someone help me on this one?
1st. Find out how many registered voters there are in Texas.
2nd. Find out how many resident hunting license were sold in 2006.
3rd. See what the % difference there is between license buying hunters and registered voter numbers.
As for the folks in California losing their homes, it is all said in the piece I saw last night. Suzanne Summers, lost her home last year in the fires. She turned right around and moved back into the same area and built a new house.
Look at how many folks here in Texas keep building homes in known - histrorical flood plains.
Humans are the problem, always have been, always will be.
Until some catastrophe overtakes us that eliminates over 50% of the earths population, and our attention is turned from decadence to "Am I Gonna Live Till Tomorrow", it is only going to get worse.
Just My Chicken Little Opinion!!!
Well said.
You won't know what you got till its gone.
Posted By: HupDog Daddy
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 06:52 PM
I agreee with the sentiment. It is terrible what has happened to and with deer hunting in Texas. I think a large part of what is /has taken place is that the farmers aren't making as much money farming any more. The city dwellers because of their wish to get out and away from the city and hunt, throw money at the farmer to allow them to shoot his pesky deer. Farmer John sees away to make an easy cash crop.
Not much involvement on his part, just collect the cash. Not that I blame either one. Like you say just sad.
Posted By: Txduckman
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 07:15 PM
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_a0900_0622_06_06.pdfI don't think license sales for 2006 are available yet but 2005 maybe. Anyway, in the latest economic pub by TPWD they show in 2001 1.2 million hunters 16 and older spent $1.5 billion and 2.4 million anglers spent over $1.9 billion. Quote "In many small communities, these angler and hunter expenditures are central to economic
health and growth."
To the state, they look at it from an economic standpoint. I am not sure what voters have a say in. Not much in the past it seems and not much in the future. It is committee run by rich people.Like I said, most rural communities seem democratic so I can't see how they would kill the rural town life allogether by changing current hunting and fishing laws to make it illegal or something.
Just my opinion.
Posted By: Fistula
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 07:39 PM
Quote:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_a0900_0622_06_06.pdf
Like I said, most rural communities seem democratic so I can't see how they would kill the rural town life allogether by changing current hunting and fishing laws to make it illegal or something.
Just my opinion.
I agree with you on the small town mentality.
But that way of life dies when state and the feds pass laws.
Posted By: ndhunter
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 08:58 PM
Well PK all I can say is whatever you set your sights on (no pun intended) you better hope it can get by on corn cause that is all that is going to get planted if the market sustains current price levels.
Posted By: Crazyhorse
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 09:08 PM
Quote:
But that way of life dies when state and the feds pass laws.
This is one of the points I am getting at, along with the fact, that the public can thru the petition process, get a referendum election set.
I think too many folks are not paying any attention to what is happening around the country, and they do not realize that other states used to have a similar set up to what Texas has, when it comes to the TP&W Board.
Many states now have eliminated those boards and in some cases do not even have a representative land owner or sportsman on the committees they do have.
Posted By: dogcatcher
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 09:34 PM
There are over 6500 members on THF. How many even voted in the last state or national election? I don't have that answer but I would be willing to be the percentage is not any higher than any other group.
Next question, how many comments or opinions are written on here daily? Again I don't have the answer but I will say it is a heck of a lot. Now how many of these same people have written their representatives in Washington and Austin in the last year? I bet you a $10 bill to a donut it is less than 10% of the members.
I write a letter to my clowns in Austin and Washington so much that I could almost use bulk rate mail service. Do they listen, yes, but they listen a lot more when there are a 1000 letters on the same subject than when there is only 10 or even a 100.
If everyone wants to stop Austin from doing some of the stupid things they do, you all have to get involved not just the 10% or even 20%. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, that is one of the reasons outfits like PETA Sierra Club get what they want, They do something besides sitting around and complaining amongst themselves.
My dimes worth.
Have you sent a letter about any of your concerns to your representative? No? Then DO IT.
Posted By: PKnTX
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 10:49 PM
Quote:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dang it Phillip!!!! Why did you have to throw in the Whitetail deer????
Hey Roy,
I can't and don't blame anyone for taking
an opportunity to make money or to do what
they they love (I'd probably jump at the
chance regardless of my whining here).
There's many of us on this forum that have
idealistic views, just can't help it.
As for getting involved politically either
by showing up to TPWD meetings or writing
representatives, count me as QUILTY of not
doing it. Just another issue I need to look
at myself on.
Hope everyone is having and continues to have
a good season.
PK
Posted By: 7mag
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/24/07 10:59 PM
No problem PK
Are you going to hunt our neck of the woods this year??? Or????
Posted By: Crazyhorse
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 12:01 AM
Quote:
QUILTY
I thought that was something our aunts and grandmothers did so they could exchange gossip. 
Wait, maybe I was thinking about Quilting. 
Posted By: ndhunter
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 12:56 AM
Quote:
I agreee with the sentiment. It is terrible what has happened to and with deer hunting in Texas. I think a large part of what is /has taken place is that the farmers aren't making as much money farming any more. The city dwellers because of their wish to get out and away from the city and hunt, throw money at the farmer to allow them to shoot his pesky deer. Farmer John sees away to make an easy cash crop.
Not much involvement on his part, just collect the cash. Not that I blame either one. Like you say just sad.
I don't begrudge anybody maximizing the return on their investment but I don't think increased cost of hunting leases is due to loss of farm income.
Quote:
The USDA estimates that farm net income will reach $87 billion this year, nearly 50% higher than in 2006.
Link to WSJ article
The premium value of farmland in the current market may be driving prices up for hunting leases if it impacts the farmers ability to grow crops on the same land. I don't know enough about deer hunting or leases to know if that is an a issue or not but seems like it could have an impact. You may have to set up the deer camp between the corn rows at the rate things are going.
Posted By: PKnTX
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 01:19 AM
Quote:
Are you going to hunt our neck of the woods this year??? Or????
Man I am really hoping to, LOVED it out there!
Unfortunately my generous cousin that let us
shoot MLD does on his lease is having some
health issues so that's where my prayers are
going now. I'll let you know what's up toward
the end of the year.
Take care and have a good week,
PK
Posted By: PKnTX
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 01:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
QUILTY
I thought that was something our aunts and grandmothers did so they could exchange gossip.
Wait, maybe I was thinking about Quilting.
I guess it was harder to admit than
I thought it would be
GUILTY
PK
Posted By: Txduckman
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 01:53 AM
Unless you grow cotton, there ain't too much to raise in Texas unless you are in a specific market like grapes or peanuts. We grow cattle and horns. Land in Texas has gone because they are not making any more and recreational value.
Posted By: Cool_Hand
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 02:08 AM
Duckman, if your statement were true Texas would be in sad shape. Cotton is not the only thing that grows well in Texas! Lets touch on wheat, rye, oats, corn, and what about soy beans? Then you have maize and sudan and coastal grasses and I could go on. Texas is an agricultural state along with some really fine minerals and oil and gas.
Posted By: Rwuensch
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 02:13 AM
Quote:
Duckman, if your statement were true Texas would be in sad shape. Cotton is not the only thing that grows well in Texas! Lets touch on wheat, rye, oats, corn, and what about soy beans? Then you have maize and sudan and coastal grasses and I could go on. Texas is an agricultural state along with some really fine minerals and oil and gas.
And it grows some mighty nice hunters indeed!
Posted By: Txduckman
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 02:21 AM
Yes my statement was naive to leave out the other crops. But cotton is the #1 cash crop in Texas bringing in more money than any other. But Texas rural land is about 60% rangeland for ranching and hunting. 11 is pasture of grasses. Only 18% is actually cropland.
Other states in the midwest is mainly crop land where most of their economy is crops. I didn't mean to leave out soybeans and corn. Just south of Dallas it is mainly corn but there hasn't been a crop for a while until this year. If you look at land prices, cropland is less per acre than rangeland which is used for hunting. Sad but true.
Posted By: Hopedale
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 02:30 AM
This seems to be taken a theme closed to the post, “Where does the average guy get to hunt?”
Bottom line, is that hunting has changed and is continuing to change. The question is where is it going, seems that there are less people taking up hunting, which gives hunters less of a political vote.
I asked was there any organization that only represented hunters, the list is as follows:
ASA053 Archery Shooters Association
BM0052 Buckmasters
CSF001 Christian Sportsmen's Fellowship
DU0076 Ducks Unlimited
FWIS58 Foundation for North American Wild Sheep
HSSH93 Hunting & Shooting Sports Heritage Fund
ITA059 International Archery Federation
IBO060 International Bowhunting Organization
MDF001 Mule Deer Foundation
NAA062 National Archery Association
NHA032 National Hunters Association
NRA064 National Rifle Association
NSSF65 National Shooting Sports Foundation
NWTF66 National Wild Turkey Federation
NAB069 North American Bowhunters
PF0070 Pheasants Forever
PBHS01 Professional Bowhunters Society
QU0073 Quail Unlimited
RMBS01 Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society
RMEF74 Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
SCI075 Safari Club International
TRGS33 The Ruffed Grouse Society
USSA03 U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance
WTU078 Whitetails Unlimited
\\
Does anyone know if these organization work with one another and do they focus there efforts?
I haven’t decided which one to join, but DU and SCI are on my top two. While this state does make a lot of money on the Deer Business, it comes down to who has the loudest voice that will determine the future of hunting.
Remember folks, you boil a frog by turning the heat up slowly.
Just my .02 worth.
Posted By: dogcatcher
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 03:02 AM
Quote:
If you look at land prices, cropland is less per acre than rangeland which is used for hunting. Sad but true.
My grandfather bought a pasture in the early 50s during the drought. It cost him $50 an acre back then, now because of the deer on it and the location it would sell for $2000 an acre. As far as ranch land it is not worth crap, cactus mesquite, and cedar with caliche instead of dirt. 1/2 mile down the highway is some really good farm land that 4 years ago sold for $400 an acre.
Now the landowner of that pasture should get a return on the value of the land, figure 3% and that lease for deer hunting gets to be high dollar, because the owner will not earn much on a cattle or sheep operation.
Something to think about.
Posted By: HighTechRedneck
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 12:05 PM
1st. Find out how many registered voters there are in Texas.
2nd. Find out how many resident hunting license were sold in 2006.
3rd. See what the % difference there is between license buying hunters and registered voter numbers.
This why we need to get as many kids as we can in the fields and on the water and pass on what was passed on to us. Get them interested in the outdoors and away from game boys, TV, computers as much as possible before they are too influenced by non-hunters/tree huggers and we end up loosing a complete generation. A lot of people are in the dark as to what hunters and hunting organizations actually do to help the wild life and the land just because they are not informed by our groups but you better believe they see and hear the other groups side of the story. Back when my daughter was in college she had to write a story on a controversial subject. She came home and asked me if I had any ideals. Well, yes as a matter of fact. So I suggested that she write about the argument between hunters and non-hunters, about what hunters and hunting organizations actually do to improve the land and wildlife compared to what the non’s do and say against outdoors people. Now She is a fact’s not opinion type person, if you are going to get in a discussion and try to prove a point to her let me tell you, you better be armed with facts and not opinions. Ha Ha. She went to work, She borrowed my hunting mag’s, did research, complied all of her info about what the different organizations do such as Ducks Unlimited, Elk Foundation Etc., where our tax dollars are supposed to be directed and wrote her story. Long story short, her professor was so impressed that she kept her after class and wanted to know more, that She never knew or even heard that side of the facts and had a total change of heart and mind about hunters/fishers. So I guess I said all of this to say, we need as a group to teach the young ones and to let our voices be heard. Speak with facts and proof to back up what we say. Quit fighting amongst us and back each and every hunter whether they hunt low fence, high fence, feeders or game trails, pigs, quail, or ducks, hunt with a gun or with a bow, with a in-line or traditional. We have or work cut out for us if we are going to save a tradition! OK, excuse me as I step down off soapbox. JMHO!
Posted By: Cool_Hand
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 02:04 PM
Quote:
Yes my statement was naive to leave out the other crops. But cotton is the #1 cash crop in Texas bringing in more money than any other. But Texas rural land is about 60% rangeland for ranching and hunting. 11 is pasture of grasses. Only 18% is actually cropland.
Other states in the midwest is mainly crop land where most of their economy is crops. I didn't mean to leave out soybeans and corn. Just south of Dallas it is mainly corn but there hasn't been a crop for a while until this year. If you look at land prices, cropland is less per acre than rangeland which is used for hunting. Sad but true.
Yes its sad in a way but thats how I make my living. Cattle is a secondary living eventhough its still high up on the ladder as a money making proposition. The farming aspect of it comes in to raising our own feed and hay for our cattle. I guess if you wanted to concentrate on an area that raises fruits and veggies for profit, it would have to be the Valley. There are also some large pecan and peach orchards in the state.
Right now at this time things seem to high in cost when it comes to package hunting. This is only a statement that is an opinion so bear with me. In the not to distant future season and yearly leases will become less numerous and eventually become a rarity. Maybe by then prices will start to modify because of competition. I can remember when leases were a dime a dozen and you could get on one very reasonabily cheap. Now your leases have gone out of sight because of there being less of them. Right now at our place if you are booked to deer hunt, the deer or buck will start at $1500.00 and go up from there. Like I say in the future these prices will change I believe for the better. But for now we're getting all the traffic will bare. My2cents 
Posted By: nthrolhntr
Re: Domestication lamentation - 10/25/07 06:21 PM
Quote:
....
Just wait till they decide they want to put deer on their to-do list.
....
Too late, Fistula. Four years ago took my wife on her first motor tour of the western U.S. We spent a few days with a college friend of mine and his wife in Paradise, CA. Very nice - up in the foothills - but, just like living in north Dallas except for the slightly more open area close around.
The deer there are like pets. Every morning and evening there were 3-7 deer in the yard. The wife puts out food for them and so do many of the neighbors. Ruth, Charlie's wife, had actually hand fed and petted one of the young does that spring. No hunting ever in the county, even outside city limits. If you saw a diseased or injured deer you called animal control. Charlie's comment was, "You think rabbits will chew up your stuff. Until you have deer you ain't seen nothing."
The Chamber of Commerce had a resident recruiting brochure at the time stating the people to deer ratio in the city limits was about 40 to 1. Seemed a little high to me.