Getting pup used to gun sound

I've heard it's good to slowly get a puppy used to sound of gun... I have 3M old Brittany... Ran across a guy at Cabelas, that swears by using fire crackers, like Black Cats occassionally for this, vs. a pistol.... any thoughts on? I was thinking of buying some 38 special blanks to try, but don't think you can shoot those in a normal pistol, and have some fireworks laying around, which would be cheaper route to go...

22 starter pistol with blanks of course. Firing will draw attention if your near people and using a real gun will really add attention. Also the gun needs to go off at a precise moment. Waiting around for fire crackers to go off is an accident waiting to happen

If you want a fool proof method to get pup used to the gun in a safe manner respond and I will post it. 4 months will be a better time to do this

Listen to Blanked...lot easier to get them fired up about gunfire than overcoming gun shyness.

I can vouch for this statement

You the man.

I tried everything with my current dog and he is flat out gun shy. I have had many dogs with no problem, but this dog has never liked gunshots. I have had him since he was a puppy. I have taken him at least 100 time dove hunting, and he still hate the sound of a gun. I still take him everywhere with me, but he just sits by the truck and chases rabbits while I hunt. I would get rid of him but my wife turned him into an inside dog and the kids love him.

At what age, level of training, and what method was used to introduce this pup to gunfire? Sorry about your dog but a lot may be learned from the back story.

I got him at six weeks and started working with his retrieving at two months. No problem. He obeys all my commands. He will still retrieve anything for me as long as there is not a gun shot. He is now two years old. While he ate when he was young I would always do hammering work or slap the table by him while he ate. He never jumped or flinched when I did this. I though he would be fine. Nope. I started firing a 22 by him while he ate, he did not like it. I tried till he was around a year old. To the day I can still make loud noises next to him and he has no problem. If I shoot any gun, he hides under the truck. Like I said, he still goes with me everywhere because he is my buddy, but he hates guns.

You never start off with gunfire beside the dog. It has to be started at a distance.
I would look into a training program, that has intro to gunfire included.

And would play fetch with them also

What purpose does shooting while he's eating accomplish?
He needs to associate it with fun and birds (retrieving).

Like I said in my original post, I have had many bird dogs with no problems. I trained them all the same way. When I started the gun fire, I started roughly 20 yards from him. When I realized he did not like it, I went inside and got a frozen dove to play fetch with. I started throwing it without shooting and he would bring it back every time. Then I would toss it with a 22 going off, he wanted nothing to do with it. I was very surprised by his actions. If I throw the dove and hit a hammer on metal, no problem. It is crazy.

When he his eating, this is something he enjoys doing. If he can associate eating with gunfire, the dog will be good to go. This is how I have trained all my dogs first, then I went to the field. However, none of the dogs acted like this one.

I feel like I should jump back in here since I instigated this. I knew the answer before I asked. I would like to thank dizzy17 for posting his story because it proves a point.

Gun shy dogs are not born, they are created. Most of the time by dumb mistakes or bad luck. The old method of rocking a shot off over the food bowl doesn't always work and is a huge gamble as is shooting over a dog to early, taking a pup to the gun range, taking a dog hunting prior to formal training, or shooting around a dog to "see" if they are gun shy to name a few. I would rank fireworks right on up there in the how to ruin a good dog category.

The only way to ensure that your dog is not going to be scared of gunfire is to train first, shoot second. I don't fire primers closer than 50 yards until the dog is through FF, steady, and marking well. As you can imagine this puts the dog at a much older age, further in training, and in love with retrieving before the gun is pointed over their head.

Don't ruin a good dog by getting too excited too early.

P.S. And dizzy, I agree with Kindall that your dog is probably salvagable with a formal training program.

Say hello to "Max". He climbs up in the deer blind with me and gets excited to see whats on the ground after the 45-70 cannon goes off.
He got his exposure to gunfire during my whitewing hunting forays.
Never showed any anxiety around firearms..it's in the genes..

I am definitely interested.

[quote=DH 1]Say hello to "Max". He climbs up in the deer blind with me and gets excited to see whats on the ground after the 45-70 cannon goes off.
He got his exposure to gunfire during my whitewing hunting forays.
Never showed any anxiety around firearms..it's in the genes..quote]

That's why I insist on picking a puppy by firing a 30-06 over the whelping box. I then like to throw them into ice cold water to see if they can swim. If I'm unsure I put the e collar on them to make sure they can take pressure....

It ain't in the genes.

First, you need to se how the pup acts to gunfire at a distance. Most show no reaction. If your pup does show a reaction they you need to procedure with caution as suggested on here.

Absolutely brilliant

I know that we have discussed this on this forum before. Gun shyness is not a normal genetic passing that a dog gets from their parents. It is manmade 99% of the time. I still feel that a pup should not be shot around until the breaking part is into its' 2nd to 3rd week. You should always start by letting a pup chase a bird and get some distance and then fire a 22 blank at the ground 180 degrees away. Watch for the pups reaction. If it is negative, cease immediatly.

+1.....anyone who follows the DH1 method is just begging for a gunshy animal.

I would have concerns about my dog suffering some hearing loss from the DH 1 method. A 45/70 fired off in a box without hearing protection is going to do some damage.

When I used to raise a litter of pups I would step out my back door headed for the kennels and fire a blank pistol with a primer in it. Then I would bang the feed pans and start feeding. Bang the tin roof over the kennels and then while they were fighting over the food and chowing down step off aways and fire more blanks. Never had a gun shy dog. When I was training them I would let them chase a pigeon with cropped wings and fire the blank pistol. After a while when I would step out side and fire that blank pistol they would be bouncing off the kennel fences thinking it was either hunting time or feeding time. Just the way I did it.

Before you display your ignorance, you just might do a little study...you are on the internet..right??
Do a little research on gunshyness and you just might find that sound intolerance can be inherited as in GENETIC.

So your advice to the OP is to take his young dog to a dove field and start slinging lead or get into an enclosed area and shoot a large bore rifle over the dogs head and if the dog acts unfavorably he should get a new dog because the one he has is genetically defective?

What were you saying about ignorance??

Tony: If I am not mistaken, it was YOU who posted, and I quote "It ain't in the genes". You have also assumed a lot without knowing any of the facts related to how I hunt with my Lab.
For the record, when I hunt doves with Max, he has been trained to sit some distance from me and the shotgun is pointed skyward at doves, not anywhere near his ears. When he is in my deer blind he sleeps on the floor, the rifle is pointed out a window and most of the noise is OUTSIDE, again not anywhere near his ears (or mine).
As to your post above, the scenario you present about "my advice" to the O.P. is B.S.
As to ignorance, "If the shoe fits, wear it".

You must be in politics because you're real good at dodging questions. Its still on the table, what exactly is your advice to the OP on how he should intro his pup to the gun?

I will say some dogs handle our (mine included) stupid mistakes better than others.

done the same thing with every dog I've trained and have yet to have an issue...........gonna need some space to do it.....get a partner with a shot gun and a handful of cheap shells and have them walk out a good 150-200 yards...far enough where the shot won't be loud at all.....get your pup on a leash and have plenty of ham/turkey/treats etc....every time your partner shoots give the pup praise and a treat.....have your partner walk in about 15-20 yards and shoot then repeat....if your pup is showing any kind of sign to not like the shot have your partner get further away and repeat (I have never had a pup get scared at these long distances).....eventually your partner will be standing right next to you shooting and the pup won't be worried about the shot at all....however this has always been the pups first time to hear a gun....not sure how it will work with a dog who is who is showing signs of being scared of a gun though

Tony: I did not offer a suggestion to the O.P., I simply posted a picture of my Lab and relayed how he was introduced to gunfire...but since you asked, here tis.
I believe that genetics have a great deal to do with a dogs predisposition to react to loud noises/gunfire. I become familiar with the bloodline of a pups parents, BEFORE I look at the pups. At age 4 weeks, I try to visit the pups and clap my hands to see which pups shy away and which pups come running to get my attention. Once I have a couple pups to choose from, I revisit them at seven weeks and try to hold them on their backs to see which one will struggle for a few minutes and then give up and which one will continue to struggle. The theory is the pup that will struggle, then give up is likely to be the one most "Trainable" and the one that continues to struggle will likely be the "Hardhead" and will be the most difficult to train. When the pup is three months old, I take him to my ranch and introduce him to gunfire (Shotgun at a distance). From there I bring him out for dove season and transistion him to rifle fire when deer season opens. I have never seen the need for cap pistols, firecrackers, blank pistols, etc. My dogs associate loud noises with fun and love, not misery or fright.
On the other hand, you advertise yourself as a professional dog trainer, yet you offered the suggestion to fire a 30-06 over the whelping box, throw the pups in ice cold water to find out if the could swim and use an E-Collar to see if they can handle pressure. Somehow, I do not see that as a PROFESSIONAL suggestion or response.
Max is a show ring Champion and a hunting companion..all I could ask for.
I am neither a politician or a question dodger, you decide if this answers all YOUR questions.

Bob

On the other hand, you advertise yourself as a professional dog trainer, yet you offered the suggestion to fire a 30-06 over the whelping box, throw the pups in ice cold water to find out if the could swim and use an E-Collar to see if they can handle pressure.

I thought we all knew that part was a joke.
From the trainers I have met, nothing rubs them the wrong way more than a dog that's been made gun shy. It something that can effect the rest of the dogs life, and not easily fixed.
They get some of them to come around, but a good many don't.

Kindall: I "Get" the joke, somehow I do not see it as a professional response.

Bob

Thank you Kindall. And to add to this, nothing fires us up more than someone offering ridiculous suggestions to a newbie that really wants to train his dog. Hence the smart [censored] reply and ensuing conversation.

I started my dog with a kids cap gun, then used 12 ga primer blanks, .moved to a .22 blank gun, then light dove loads.

Always associating the noise with a retrieve. i didn't want a dog that simply was not gun shy, I want a dog that associates the bang with a retrieve.

Also when introducing gunfire not only did I start from small to big calibers but I started by standing a distance away from my dog and then gradually reducing the distance.

I think genetics can play into some of it and then there are some unknown Q factors. Here's my story:
My brother had an English Springer Spaniel with champion show and field lines. My sister had a Golden that had pretty good AKC lines. Dogs pretty close in age and spent a lot of time together both in town (they lived a few blocks apart) and at our family place in the country. Both would fetch/retrieve and both loved to swim.
The golden never liked loud noises from very young, thunder would sometimes make him so nervous he would throw up, he would hide when a gun came out of a case.
The springer loved the sound of the gun and would chase/retrieve skeet.

The biggest difference between the two was the breed and bloodline. Go figure.

First gunfire was at 4 months old from a 12 gauge with popper shells at over 100 yards away in conjunction with a live, shackled duck being thrown in the air. The dog was too excited about the duck it got to retrieve to even notice the rapport except that it was like the signal to go get the bird. This test was just to make sure it was worthwhile to dedicate the time and money to go through more training.

Ever since then gunshots are the signal that she gets to retrieve a bird. (as long as we don't miss)
We took a two month break until her adult teeth came in and went at it again.

Under 6 months old you should be working on obedience and building drive to retrieve.

At 7 months we finally introduced close gunfire. She was already trained to retrieve to hand dead birds or bumpers and heel, sit, etc...
I bought a half dozen live pigeons. Guys from the dog training club volunteered to help.
1. First bird I plucked the primary flight feathers and told the guys to miss. I started at about 100 yards behind the 3 shooters. They threw the bird and fired away from us.
--Retrieved to hand and excited about the live bird.

2. Moved to 60 yards or so and shot the next bird
-- Same retrieve

3. Moved to 40 yards (repeat)

4. Moved to 10 yards behind (repeat)

5. Stood adjacent to the guns and finished off the rest of the birds.

7 years and still loves to hunt.

I will probably never associate gun fire with game when introducing pups to gun fire. It has caused too many bad habit s and causes the dog to break at the shot.

You say that like it's an absolute. Are the millions of dogs trained that way that don't bresk just the exception or what?

I was only referring to my dog and my experience. If the dog doesn't break great no bad habits are going to formed or need fixing later. My limited experience has taught me that a dog with a good amount of prey drive is going to break.

Their instinct is to retrieve game. The shot doesn't matter. I've seen dogs break when the ducks cup. (not mine)

Steady to shot is trained. This is regardless of how you introduce gunfire.

Dead on!

I've been busy and haven't introduced my Lab to gun fire yet, but I don't think that its going to be much of a problem though...when I was building my deerstands this year he was sleeping under my miter saw (literally) while I was cutting! lol

I have trained several labs. Many of the above comments are good advice. Start the dog young and at a distance. At a young age, you're not training the dog to be excited about guns yet. You're are simply getting them used to a loud noise. Work slowly and take small steps. Slap two 2x4's (6"-8" long) together at a distance several times while the pup eats. If you get no negative reaction, move closer the next time. Keep doing this until you can slap the boards over its head while eating without getting a reaction from the pup. Then introduce the gun fire at a distance. Put the dog in a kennel a 50 yds from you while shooting skeet or firing a gun at anything. Or let someone hold the pup at a distance while you're shooting. Do this several times to get the pup comfortable with the sound from a distance. Gradually move the pup closer to the gun. Often times, the sound won't bother them at all. If the pup wants to be next to you while shooting, let him. As with all traing, keep it fun for the dog.

Bingo. The object is to associate noise as, and with a good thing. Conditioning.

This is how I've done mine in the past and it worked out. I may have just been fortunate but I'm in the market for another pup after many years and this is one of my concerns so I'm taking this in.