Leasing vs Buying Land

First time poster. Hey everyone I had a question for the group. For the past 15 years my Pops and I had an amazing deer lease. 400 acres/$2k TOTAL and year round access in Throckmorton County. We knew it wouldn’t last forever and wouldn’t you know it…the landowner finally sold and we were without a place to hunt for last season.

Prices for leases have skyrocketed. But add to it, the entire game has changed with all of these rules and hunting partnerships and camps with exhaustive lists of who can be there, when , etc. And to make it worse, even these types of leases, paying and arm and a leg, are hard to come by. We just wanted a place to hunt that is safe (don’t mix drinking with guns ever, etc). And now I got a little boy of my own that I want to have similar experiences.

So my Pops and I were scrambling. How do you make connections to hunt when you haven’t had to for 15 years? TPWD website? Craigslist? This forum? Facebook? I tried them all and nada.

We finally had a bite on a lease. (We are in the Abilene area). 5k for each of us! We love to hunt, but more than that this is a time for us to just hang out and bond. This lease has like 6 other people on it already and we didn’t get a good feel for it. So…..we decided to put pen to paper and said what if we just buy some land of our own.

Now obviously land prices have skyrocketed. Our budget would not get us anywhere near 400 acres. I also wanted to be in Shackleford//Callahan/Throckmorton County as it’s close to my parents house. Well, we looked all spring and happy to report we found approx 50 acres in Shack. We are officially landowners! Now of course you may say it’s only 50 acres and I would agree. But we are surrounded by large landowners on all 3 sides of us. And to be honest we don’t shoot everything, to me a successful hunt it hanging out with the old man. If we happen to get a buck then that is icing on the cake. In any event, we have a camera up at our new place and we have been getting hogs/deer/turkey regularly.

So Although it’s small…it’s ours….we don’t have to worry about finding a lease ever again. I was just curious if anyone else had “downgraded leases” acreage wise but enjoyed smaller hunting trade nonetheless.

Congrats! Nothing like having your own place!

And a hearty congratulations! I think y'all made the right decision, especially since hanging with your dad and having your boy around is important, as it should be.

I had a small place and was on a large lease further west. 'Got off that lease, sold the small place and bought a bigger one. 'Couldn't be happier. My rules, my friends and family only. I remember looking at one lease "managed" by a guy on here. There were several pages of rules on just how to shut the cabin down, including, if you were the last one out, mopping the whole place. Nope.

Could probably guess whom was the Rule Sith. If it's more than 6 lines I'm not interested. Common sense should rule the day and if not, prepared to be dumped off the place. No questions asked.

He used to be a "big deal" on here. Not so much anymore.

Congratulations! I did something very similar as I had hunted on a 460 acre lease with others for 25 years before losing it. I didn't get my own land until 6 years later but even though it is smaller, there is something to be said for having your own place.

I leased a few places in my life, mostly close to home. Last place I was on was - couple hundred acres about 20 miles from my house. Super convenient, deer quality was good, had free roam of the place, but it wasn’t mine. Landowners were wonderful people but I could see the writing in the wall that they wanted me to share with some some of their friends so when the opportunity came available I was in a position to purchase my own place and moved on it.

The hunting is very good, deer are not huge but we haven’t had a problem taking mature bucks so far and there are hogs along with some exotics. But best of all it’s a place to escape….I enjoy working on the land and having a getaway, the hunting itself is secondary. I’m content currently feeding and improving the land and hunting it when and if the mood strikes

congratulations! and

have to start somewhere ... sounds like you are on track for a cool little hunting and bonding place with family

Congratulations. Owning land can be great, for many reasons. It can also be a big headache, and everyone is different.
Personally, I prefer to hunt very large places so I have never considered owning my own hunting place(couldnt afford the size I would want.) With leasing there is always the risk of things going wrong, but Ive spent a lifetime trying to find the right place that keeps that issue at a minimum.
Welcome to our forum, its great.

Pluses and minuses to both sides; I do both and in different counties so works well for me.

Congrats on purchasing your place. We bought a small place in 2019 and built a little 2/2 house. Did alot of the work myself. It's not huge and it's not fancy...but the memories are special and it's ours.

congrats on owning your own place, def rewarding hunting your own ground i would love to own my own but unfortunatly i wont be able to own anything close to size properties i would wish to have. leasing is def tough because you never knwo if/when it will end i lease 3 decent sized properties so not all my eggs are in one basket.

^^^^ I'm similar to this. Been on 3 great large acreage leases over lifetime and eventually all lost due to landowners passing and heirs selling. On a special place now for hopefully another 20+ years.

Congrats and

I bought my own place about 40 years ago. Only 133 acres at $405 per acre. All trees, rocks, gullies, Etc. About 70 miles North of Fort Worth. Hunting for quite awhile was fantastic. Then we had a serious 4 year drought that wiped out a lot of wildlife. Now, the hunting isn’t great but it’s free to me and the grown grandsons.

Problem is that the value has increased to about 8 to 10 thousand per acre and it makes more sense to sell it, take the money, and lease a place. But, doubt that I’ll do it.

Guys, look for a place to buy. Even if it isn’t convenient, close, etc.

Just sell and buy a better place! Do it for the grandsons. (It's just dirt. Have some fun. Keep life interesting.)

Leased a few places and made several great memories but didn’t like the uncertainty. Started considering and looking coupe years ago and pulled the trigger on our own place just over 100 acres. Wasn’t in an area I had considered but has a small home with utilities and was ready to hunt. Has decent WT, some hogs and exotics. We have loved it and are hoping to purchase the neighbors place in the future.

You and me both brother. Not your same neighbor though. After looking at, what seemed like a ton, but probably not for my real estate agent, we found exactly what we needed. Just enough. Ya gotta be able to see potential through some trashy situations sometimes.

Creekrunner, at 79 yoa, I have zero interest in starting over. And, every chunk of dirt within driving range is priced ridiculously high.

Heck, I have all the toys I need or want so no need for the $

I have leased most of my life, since 2014 I haven’t had a lease.
I own my own places and wouldn’t have it any other way.
I can come and go as I please and say who can and who can’t.
I don’t hunt much anymore, but my kids and grandkids do.
Congrats on your own property, y’all will enjoy it.

Yup have an open mind and be willing to at least take a look. Worked out and if we can pay off some other bills may add another 100 acres before retirement.

Just buy in Oklahoma

The end

Buying property is an investment. The hunting is just a benefit of owning a tangible asset.

Leasing your paying a fee for the right to hunt.

Both have their benefits but you can’t look at hunting as main driver to purchasing land, as there is so much more to it.

The people saying “ I don’t buy because I can lease more land for less money” are not looking at it thru the correct lens.

Land is an appreciable asset that should be a part of your portfolio. A lease is just a lease, whose value is derived off of the entertainment aspect it provides.

To me it comes down to what you can afford to spend. A fairly decent lease is going to run you $200 per month or so. Buying a piece of land big enough to hunt that actually has wildlife if going to run you more than that a month. Buying land is going to probably make you money in the long run unless you get goofy and pay more than it is worth. I have been around for a long time. What I have seen with hunters that have bought their own property is that the first few years they really enjoy the hunting on it. Then for some reason it is not as enjoyable as it first was. Some then go get a lease again and some just quit hunting the deer and just look at them. Strange

The last few sentences hold very true…..and that’s why it’s not about the hunting in and of itself for the majority of landowners.

Also, nothing wrong with owning a place and leasing a place/going on hunts. Variety is the spice of life

This.
Buying land is an investment, my best investments have been in raw land.
I cashed in some retirement accounts in 2019 and bought a ranch, it has more than doubled in value plus the enjoyment you get from it.

Funny how all the financial guys (% of investments commissioned based) advise against it.

Creekrunner - just curious - I have been on this forum for years - I do not recall a lease manager who required the lease members had to mop the camp? Enlighten us please

I guess you'd have to be a potential lease member to ever get a look at the cabin rules. I'm not making it up. It was in black and white. I'm not here to cast aspersions on previous, or possibly current lurking, members. It was my first encounter with cellular trail cameras. The dude was obsessed!

Buy just slightly less than you can afford. You’re going to need the rest for things that you forgot about or broke or an improvement. You can thank me later. But buy land.

Not saying you were making it up - if he was a "big deal" here I just figured we would have all seen it - also not saying you were casting aspersions - just was curious because I do not recall ever seeing something like that - carry on

Congrats on the purchase. throw lotsa feed out there to keep the herd healthy, don't shoot everything, and should keep you and neighbors happy (and from high-fencing you out!).
Enjoy your little slice of heaven.

Yep, Oklahoma is cheap land but have a ridiculously short hunting season.

Then for some reason it is not as enjoyable as it first was. Some then go get a lease again and some just quit hunting the deer and just look at them. Strange

FUNNY---that's me!
We bought almost 200 acres in 2020 and since then I am not as interested in killing a deer as I am seeing what kind of quality deer herd I can put together. If I see an old trash buck, he's dead. Good genetics is what I want hanging around----

Lastly, our neighbors don't hunt deer very much if at all

Timing is key.

Land prices have gotten rediculous since covid. 100 acres where I hunt now is $800k to $1 million. You might have 1 to 10 deer on that. You would need a huge down payment and huge monthly payments. Pre-covid same land was half as much and less and developers weren't splitting it up yet. I'll stick with my lease for now. $1,800 a year for over 1,000 acres.

You can bow hunt early oct through mid Jan.

But you take that $800k and purchase a piece of property, in 5 years its worth $1,120,000 based on an 8% annual appreciation, which is fairly conservative.


Your lease isn't gonna give you a nickel of return.


Again, your comparing two different things.

Agree. You need a chunk of free cash for the down payment and a sizeable monthly cash flow to acquire that. Then be able to spend money to manage the land. For an $800,000 property, you are looking at $160k down payment and $50k yearly payment. There is no way to compare that to leasing for hunting. That is entirely an investment. I'll ride the affordable lease train as long as I can for now.

Creekrunner, I’m 79 yoa and have zero interest in complicating my life or straining my lazy butt looking for another place. It’s 70 miles from my home in D/FW which is just about right. I really don’t have any desire to find another secluded porch to pee off of.

100%, Dave. At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow.

Times two. I have owned several properties over the years - one was 600 acres. I enjoyed them all but they take a lot of effort and money to improve and keep them in shape. When younger no problem - at age 69? No thanks
We live on 25 acres now and that is all I want to keep up with - when I go to the lease I just want to hunt and enjoy it

There is some gold on this thread. Buying land is an investment for sure, and lately that investment has blown up in price, but the bubble will burst at some point.

Couple of things worth mentioning:

1. Cost of land in OK is not cheap anymore. It isn't metromess 10K acre type crazy but raw land there will go over 3K an acre easily and with improvements or water it is another half as much or double depending on the size.

2. Hunting season in OK is not short. As was corrected, rifle season is short up there. Plan accordingly and you can still enjoy plenty of time in the woods

3. Big difference in desires between the old guard and the new guard. Understandably.

4. FR's advice is worth the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Don't lose the forest for the trees and realize why you are doing what you are doing. Do not let life chase away your dreams but at the same time don't let your dreams chase away your life.

I can only speak to what I've seen during my 14 year career ( and lifetime being around rural properties) :

Land in our old area of South Texas, bought in the mid-90's for $350/acre. Same unimproved land today in the same area would be $3500-$3800/acre. Stuff we were selling in Frio County in 2012 for $2500/acre is now over $4k/acre.

In 2012 I could buy the best of the best in Blanco County ( no live water ) for $6500/acre. Could buy a real good place for $5500/acre and a decent place for $4000/acre. That same primo place now is $15,000+/acre and the decent place is $12,000/acre


So in the past 10 years prices have more than doubled in that area


My question is, what does a bubble bursting look like, and can a person point to an example of bubbles bursting in a rural land market? I'm not talking about a 10-15% correction in price, that isn't a bubble bursting.



Everyone talks about bubbles bursting and markets crashing yet no one can give an example of such, other than the savings and loan crisis in the 80's and 90's.....a market crash could happen, its not impossible, but I can't see the factors that would cause rural land prices to substantially drop.....its too cheap to hold land.


The past two years have shown how much value is in rural land, both in dollars and cents and perceived value.

Bubble should have burst in 2007, but Bush needed to protect his buddies.

I apologize, I did not mean for that comment to suggest the price of land was going to do signifciantly down, just that it won't increase in value as quickly as recently. IF there is a market correction, the prices of land and values could go down some, as you said maybe 10-20%, but nothing like what the housing market would do. so I completely agree, one of the better investments (if you intend to sell it eventually) is rural land.

My problem is I don't plan to sell my investment. It is a piece of wealth for me, but no investment as I won't cash in on it. But it is an investment in happiness. and thats enough for me

Agree Buckeye, my million dollar POS rock pile ain’t for sale. Wife says that if I sold it, I would have to be house broke and potty trained and that ain’t likely to happen.

I PERSONALLY believe the price increases/values are heavily influenced by 2 things.

First is high inflation caused by the weakening of the dollar caused by the bozo in the White House and Congress looting the economy for their own gains.

Second is the migration from other states to Texas. People are bringing cash and desire for rural real estate to build their ponderosa. According to a couple of old time rural realtors that I know, most of the calls are from transplants.

I too have never seen a bubble burst with land prices unless it was on some larger places they turned into subdivisions. Even then the busted bubble came back to life a few years after that. I have seen it level out for a few years and just when you thought it had reached a peak it got higher. My parents bought this place in 1963 for $87 per acre. This year places that border me are selling for $13,000 per acre and they have all been sold. How much land escalates and how fast really depends on where it is located. But eventually all land is going to get more expensive.

So where are you at in Shackelford. My neighbors both just sold around 50 acre tracts. Wonder if you are one the new guys?

Thanks everyone for their input. We are a couple months into ownership and I try to get out there as much as I can. Having a place I can call my own brings me alot of pride. I am very appreciative of the blessing.

I wanted to share some game cam shots. We are overrun with hogs so looking to get our feeders hog proofed.

We are off Hwy 6 north of the big city of Moran:) If that sounds close to you let me know. Would always like to get to know the neighbors!

Check your message box.

Any hog fencing ideas would be appreciated.

Its gonna be tough in the drought, but putting up a feed pen is your best het for keeping hogs away from feeders.

Lots of ways to do that and a search will bring up lots of posts on this topic, but most will recommend cattle panels and t-post, bailing wire and some muscle. In this dry hard ground i can assure you driving tpost is gonna he a bee-atch, somif you have mechanical or hydraulic means to do that, by all means use that. But most recommend wiring the panels together to form the round pen, and then placing the tposts on the junctions and in the middle of each panel. Overlapping the panels will add structural integrity to the pen. And placing tpost on the inside of the panels vs outside the panels will keep it solid. Its work but can be worth it if hogs are a problem.

You can buy premade panels. $$ but work great & no fighting hard ground. We have got ours from Rivera panels in Lometa.

"check your message box" got me thinking. Since you are new you may not know this and for others that may not know... You can set up your preferences to email you when you get a private message(pm). Many dont know this cause I pm guys and it takes them forever to respond.

I know a guy that makes great premade panels. But you can do the same with T posts and cheap cattle panels. Just have to tie them down really well.

I am 39 and bought my first place outside of Cisco in March of 2016 (355 acres). I sold it less than 2 years later for a $50k profit and thought I had done well on the investment (what I’d give to still be holding that place today).

Took that $$$ and purchased 319 acres in Throckmorton county in 2018 that I liked better (better topography, water features, bigger deer, etc). We have since built a gorgeous 5.5 acre lake, built a barndo/house, etc. Outside of my family, it is what I’m most proud of.

My children are 12 and 9 and they both know that the ranch is not to be sold. I have even talked to my wife about potentially putting it in a trust. I want to leave that legacy to future generations of my family. When my 9 year old daughter goes off to college, my wife and I plan to leave Mansfield and move there full time. Over 4 years later, and I still get excited and often don’t sleep well the night before when I know we get to go to the ranch.

We have sacrificed in other areas of our life to make it work. We live in a modest home in Mansfield, I drive my vehicles until they croak, buy our clothes at places like Kohl’s. I wouldn’t trade it for anything and if someone came and offered me $5mm for it today I’d tell them to go fly a kite.

There is absolutely no better feeling that sitting in the deer stand and looking out on the horizon and thinking to yourself “I own that tree way over there too.” I firmly believe that if you are waiting for land prices to drop, you’ll never get off the sidelines.

Well, that depends on you're definition of what short is

General rifle season alone, yes

BUT...

Bow season is longer than Tx-$300
Muzzle loader season which is a very friendly timing is 9 days-$300
General rifle is 16 days-$300

With an extended doe season

Theres a very high probability I do muzzle loader (for the 1st time) and rifle season this year, which is 25 days total

It aint bad

The Ouachita mountain range in Oklahoma is beautiful. I would buy a property there in a heartbeat with no issues if it wasn't so far away from my home.


Learn to Bowhunt.....extends your season tremendously and its more rewarding. Win-Win.