NightVision vs. ND3 or ND5 vs. Hawglight

Hi folks, I'm new to this forum(as you can tell), but I've been enjoying reading the hog hunting articles. I live in the country, and have a major hog problem,especially after a rain.
Sometimes I think I'd rather have a drought than put up with the hogs, armadillo's, skunks, badgers, gophers, and everything else that comes and digs holes after a rain
I'm currently hunting(actually I shoot em off my patio sometimes)with an older "ranch rifle(223)", and a very heavy Brinkmann rechargeable spot light. Not a very accurate combination, it's like shooting a rifle with one hand. The old ruger is not real accurate to start with(especially shooting cheap ammo), and neither am I, but I can't take much recoil shooting one handed, and I like having 20 rounds for follow up shots. I average about 30 hogs a year(wet year) without feeding, or even going out hunting them. I want to outfit a setup specifically for shooting hogs at night. The other rifles I own and would consider using for this would be : Sako finnbear bull barrel 25-06(very heavy),,, a Smith & Wesson model 1500 in 7mag(very light,considerable recoil) ,, a Remmy 700 ADL 243(probably the one I'll use). I don't hunt em for meat, I ain't gonna touch em if I can avoid it.
The rifles all have older scopes which are no longer very clear and sharp. I have some cheaper scopes(BSA,Simmons) which being low power(4x, 3-9) work fairly well at night with the spotlight, and I would probably use one of those with the ND3 to save some money. I'm considering (1) Gen 1 night vision, (2) ND3 laser, or (3) Hawglight Destroyer with a new BSA Catseye 3.5-10x50 scope. Right now, I'm leaning towards the Hawglight and a new scope, but I really haven't been able to find out much about the lasers. Do they do more than "light up the eyes" like the advertisements say? Which would be better for "scanning" a pasture? I have stock tank about 200 yards away, and the hogs travel through that area frequently, but I can barely see them with my spotlight. I'm wondering if the ND3 would work well enough at 150-200 yds to tell the difference between a hog and a calf I can't afford to go "whole hog" on this deal, I'm looking to stay around the same cost as a Gen1 night vision rig. I can do the ND3 on my current scope for under $300. The ND5 for about $400.
The Hawglight & Catseye would be about $275, night vision around $500. Sorry for the long post. I'd appreciate any and all comments, advise, and info on the subject.
Thanks again for the great website.

My opinion- the Nd3 & 5 are junk- Well great lights but they seem to scare the animals more than anything.
Go to www.texasboars.com they have a good selection of the best lights for your purpose.

You say "they are junk because they scare animals more than anything". Have you actually held the light, hunted with the light and found in YOUR experience that it scares the animals or have you just been reading and repeating some of what you have seen?
I actually own the ND-5 and have not found that to be the case. I've been using the cylops red lens for a couple of years and recently started using the ND-5. It's much easier to handle and you can see much easier with it than the red lens. Still trying to decide whether or not to get the ND-3 x 50 to mount on my scope.

luvthumhogs said:
>>>>>>>> My opinion- the Nd3 & 5 are junk- Well great lights but they seem to scare the animals more than anything.
Go to www.texasboars.com they have a good selection of the best lights for your purpose. <<<<<<<<<<

How do you truly have an opinion unless you have actually used the ND3 or ND5. Maybe you have actually used them; if so, my apologies. I do however doubt it because I have used the ND3x50 and have found it to illuminate very well and have an extremely long range. I have only had it a few days but I think it has real potential. So far I have only used it with a 50% moon or more but was really surprised that it actually helped with visibility more than expected. I guess after reading that the regular ND3 was very limited in moonlight I was happy to find the ND3x50 did work better than expected in moonlight. As I use ND3x50 more and more I will try and update those who are interested.

My question is how does the ND3x50 compare with the ND5? Do they make a good combination? Please, opinions from people who actually know; ie people who have actually used them.

Jered
Lubbock, Texas

The ND-5 is strictly a hand held light. There are no mounts for use on the rifle. My thoughts are that I can use the ND-5 hand held for scouting around the fields rather than waiving the rifle around. I've held it on top of my binoculars and looked way past 200-250 yards and have been pleased with the ND-5 so far. And, I wanted some time to check out the lighting itself before I spent the money on the 3x50. I believe they would both be beneficial together. I've used a red lens cyclops in my blind for the last couple of years and the Laser Genetics is definitely way better than that set up. Plus this allows me to either stay in the blind or walk the fields if I want to. Keep us posted on what you think about the 3x50 also.

Wayne,

I want to buy the ND5 and understand it is not meant to be mounted to a rifle. Before I do I would like to see it in action though. I have been using the ND3x50 as a flashlight so far due to the fact that my 30mm mount has been backordered from SWFA. I would just like to see how the two perform differently. The ND3, being a Designator and the ND5 being an Illuminator. Is there indeed a considerable difference in the Illumination / Designation properties? It would be nice to see the ND5 in action before dropping more $$.

Jered

Without actually using or seeing the ND3 in the field I can't really answer that. I have looked at the ND3 in the store and had it on but under bright lights of course. We each have one and wonder about the other. I'd like to find someone close to me in DFW area to compare them too.

UPDATE:
I decided(finally) on a Redfield Revolution 3-9x50 accu range.
Really looks like a well made, easy viewing scope. Got new Leupold rings and bases, mounted, bore sighted, first shot at 50 yds was 1 1/2 inches low, windage DEAD ON. I ordered the Hawglight red destroyer, should be here in a day or two.
I hope the ND3x40&50's work out, maybe I can afford one someday.
I'll post the final results in case anyone is interested, but it would suit me just fine if I never got to shoot at another hog on my property. I'll find something else to shoot

I too have been debating on night vision and the ND3, Thought I had settled and decided to just save some money up and buy the nigh vision scope i wanted till today. I made a stop by Ammo Depot near Caddo Mills, Tx and they have the ND3 on display. After fooling around with it for a bit I talked to a guy who worked their, he stated that he had his doubts it would work but bought one anyways. But says he gives it two thumbs up, said his feeder is set up at 132 yards from his stand and can clearly make out any animal under, stated he has shot many hogs and not one has seemed to be spooked by the light, said he would also feel comfortable taking a shot up to 200 yards with it. He did mention that it needs hand warmers taped to it if it is below 40*

Update:
Got the hawglight:) It works very well. I mounted it on the scope, but I'm getting a lot of "backflash?", especially at higher magnification? Never had that prob before,cause I only had low power scopes. Mounted it using the barrel mount, and that eliminated the backflash prob. My rifle,(rem 700)still has the front sight on it, and I'm thinking that may be part of the problem ?? I may try to remove it, and try the scope mount again. The rifle is much more balanced that way. The light does what it is advertised to do, and more. I'm satisfied with it, but I would like to see how the white led would work. I don't think it would spook the animals around here too much.
I've used my 2 million cp brinkmann so much, the deer don't pay it a lot of attention, and if the pigs are "rooting" they don't either. I'm accustomed to "how the eyes look" with a white light.
The red light makes everything look a little different.
I noticed last night, they got a little nervous with the red light.?
It lights up eyes beyond 200 yds.!, and at 200 yds I can make out the figure of a deer, if I try real hard. I still need to fine tune the eye piece on my scope, but it's easy enough to tell what kind of eyes you're looking at. At 100 to 130 yds it's clear as a bell. Good product, thanks Robert.

Check out the reviews om the ND3 and 5 they do not work in temps below 50 degrees from what I have read.

I've read a LOT about the laser genetics products. Of course, some of it is advertising, but I have not read whether or not the cold temp problem has been addressed in the newer 3X40,and 3X50 gun mount models. The 3X40 is the one I would be interested in, if I were to win the lottery(I don't play). I think it may be a while before the "jury is in" on those products.
What about the $$ "flashlights" $$, like the Tiablo,Fenix, etc.,
Are there any of those that will light up a hog at 200 yds well enough to confidently shoot it? Thanks for the reply.

We used one two weekends ago sub 50 and it was fine.......

I think a lot of this is internet lore.... we'll know soon enough; 4 of us have them for hog guns...

If I'm going to spend that amount if money on a green flashlight I am going to read the reviews and watch the videos. As far as internet "lore" see for yourself. I have read several different reviews about people wrapping hand warmers around them trying to get the light to work, the company is aware of this call them like I did and see.

We used one two weekends ago sub 50 and it was fine.......

I think a lot of this is internet lore.... we'll know soon enough; 4 of us have them for hog guns...

Uh,,you used one what? Flashlight, or ND3, or ?
Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand.

On their website it says in cold weather you have to wrap hand warmers around the unit put in warm or room temp batteries and turn it on before you go outside. If it still does not work take more batteries and rotate them out. All of this = JUNK !! Dont waste your money !!

I have used my ND3x50 a little more now. The full moon is still a big nuisance.

I used it for about a 30-45 minutes last night and the temp as around 58. Absolutely no problems with it. As far as range goes I estimate no problems locating and shooting WITH FULL MOON to 120 yards with ease. Maybe 150 or 180 yds with full moon. Of course the laser on the finest setting will reflect off of a license plate at 1-1/2 miles. I was using it somewhere around or below the mid range 'aperture' adjustment. I am getting more and more confident about it. Jury is still out though.

I am using a 3.5-12x50 30mm tube scope.

Jered

Thanks Jered, Please keep us updated as you gain experience.
I have a location with hog traffic that is almost impossible to get any closer than 200 yds. I can see'em with a spotlight($10 at Lowes), but it's hard to get a good steady aim while holding the light, and the hogs start moving after a few seconds with the spotlight on them.
If I can't positively ID a hog at 200 yds with the laser genetics devices, then I'll have to find a way to use the spotlight, and save 5 or 6 hundred dollars
Thanks again,,, Gary

Wait until it get cold outside and let us know how it works. Cold like 32 deg. Thanks

I was using the ND-5 this weekend and the full moon does get to be a pain in the tail at times. The ND-5 light is much better in total darkness. Temps only got down into the lower 50's. I hit a couple of hills with the rangefinder before it got dark just to check distances. Once it got dark the moon would get behind the clouds now and then and I'd hit the far hills with the light to see how it worked. With the light adjusted to about halfway between the largest and smallest circle, and using my binoculars, I could see very well off to about 300 yards and make out some cows laying under the trees. Out to about 400+ I could see but had nothing to try to make out and doubt that my old eyes could have done it anyway.
I like the ND-5 . It does what it is supposed to and what I hoped it would do. Now I just need to save up for the ND-3x50 to mount on the scope.

I have had the "Destroyer" for a year now, and I very satisfied with it. I have shot around 24 hogs, anywhere from 100 to 190 yards in pitch darkness. Haven't had any problems yet, still using the rechargeable batteries that came with it. Another advantage I've discovered is the bugs don't bother me like they did with the regular spotlight. The red LED seems to almost have a "calming" effect on some animals. Have shot a few coyotes with it, and it made them nervous, but they didn't panic. I have a low end night vision monocular, and I can look through it with the hog light for an "illuminator" and it's like "green daylight for about 300 to 400 yards. Sure would like to see a comparison between the ND 3x50 and a hawglight destroyer.

Just get a nightvision scope. We have a few refurb Gen 1 scopes for $356.38 shipped. These are good out to 100 yards under a 1/4 moon and even further with a brighter moon. Best of all, the is no chance a hog will detect you when you use it.

The ND5 is brighter in my opinion. But it is a flashlight.
Which ring mount did you order and I'll look into to that for you.
With the ND3 you can make the beam size, from a 1/2 dollar size to about 4' in diameter at about 10 yards.
I prefer the ND3 over the 5 because I can use it in mulitply appications.
It comes with a picatinny mount for the AR, a mount for your binos and a mount for your scope.
It's the best value in my opinion.


It's the battery, you have to buy the insulated version. "Sub-zero"

I have never seen the ND3 to ever bother anything I tried to look at. Spotlights and Redlights yes, you have a second to lock onto it and shoot. But the ND3 works.

The one thing I've noticed about the ND3 is the scope mounts are really crappy. I have a lot of hunters bring those laser light out all the time. After trying out a few different NV scopes in person, they usually go home with a new night vision scope and plans to craigslist the ND3.

I'm not saying that it's a NV killer.
But there are quite a few guys that cannot justtify investing that kind of money. I have one on my .308 and having had any sort of issue. I love NV as much as the next guy, But I couldn't afford to buy another Raptor.

Yeah, I just wish they would have made a better mount for the ND lights. It's think their cool and wish they had a IR one, those would be nice for a NV scope.

We have an ND3 and an ND5 which were GIVEN to us to try and get video for promotional purposes. We have shined them on raccoons, hogs, deer and cows. They all spook. The green light IS NOT outside their visible spectrum.
I can also confirm that when temps fall below 50 degrees the units stop working all together unless they can be warmed up (hand warmers).
Watch this youtube video: ND3 . Anything depicting the light being shown on an animal is obviously a doctored image using filters. Look at the comments. Sound familiar?
The good is that they are a super bright light which can illuminate great distances (when kept warm). The bad is they don't work for hunting any better than a white light.
I will also say I don't sell Night Vision or Laser Genetics products nor do I work for either-In other words I don't have a dog in the fight.

ND5 will scare a deer. I've had it several times. Hogs I've never had a problem with. I like my ND5 though. Didn't buy it to use on deer so it's not a problem for me. It works great for hogs from my experience. You do have to keep em warm in the colder temps though, for me it's around 30 or so.

We play with ours a lot just to see what's out there. If you are playing with deer, don't hold it on them long or it WILL spook them.

And like NightHogs, I dont' sell them nor do i work for em. Just have one and like it.

The Nd3's work great except in cold weather. I have shot hogs, racoons etc using it. If they could fix the cold problem i would recommend it highly. i am working on the cold problem now . it I can over come the problem i will post it

also the kill light xlr250 is good i hear

Here is my nd3 Insulated with a built in rechargable hand warmer. will be tested this week end.

that's awesome. Ingenuity at it's best!

A buddy of mine has had the ND 3 and it has been a POS. It never did work when cold, when he would tighten it down in the ring mount it would immediately shut off and when attached to his AR it would shut off after every shot. He has since sent it back to the manufacturer 3 times to get this fixed. Customer service was less than average and each time he got it back a new problem would pop up with it.
Would not spend the money on one.

X2 PM me with results after you test it.

I will, I will

O.k. This is the outcome. My Nd3 was going out at 70 degrees. Since I have added the insulation and the rechargable hand warmer I went hunting for the last 2 days. It only got down to 54 degrees. So I beat the limit of 70 and I didnt have to use the handwarmer. The batteries do not like the cold at all. But using rechargable batteries help out and can stay warmer faster than not rechargable but the down side is they will last only a night and if its to cold you have to change the battery again. when I replaced the rechargable battery it worked fine again. I have a Duracell cell phone charger. You charge it then you charge the hand warmer with out having to charge in your truck. When It gets colder I than 54 I will give update. Atleast I cut 16 degrees off of it for sure. If anyone had questions please feel free to ask. I was hog hunting but saw no hogs. Took out a rabbit with my Nd3. So I am good to go now.

if he will take electrical black tape and rap it around the nd3 where the mount will be, that will help stop the transfer of cold from the mount.

I couldn't find any info on whether or not an illuminated reticle is necessary or not. I need a good light but don't want to buy one and have to change out my scope also. Looking for something that is good for up to 200yds with a standard scope. Any suggestions?

I have used the nd3 alot. 200 yards is no problem. Look at the sub zero model. My nd3 Is better in cold now that i insulated it

oh and i can see my recticle just fine but i use it on 9 power

Alrighty then. Update. Just with the insulation not using the hand warmer it stayed on at 47 degrees. So this means the insulation has changed it at least 23 degrees. Still need it to get colder. See photos above if your lost about the Nd3. By the way my hunt 2 days ago I compared my Nd3 to my buddies Xlr250 kill light. The kill light is better if your wanting to look at a bigger area quicker. As for range Nd3 wins hands down by at least 100 yards. Both emmit green, not the red 1. So to me I would rather have my Nd3. My friend liked the nd3 better than his kill light. Take it for what its worth. My Nd3 has been proven on deer, hogs, racoons, rabbits and others. Of course I couldnt shoot the deer but did shoot the rest. eyes light up on all animale green.

I have a hawglite mounted on top of a vx3 4.5-14-50 and it works great

All right. Here is the Nd3 without the lighted recticle and then with lighted recticle.

I have looked at deer, racoons, hogs, cows, rabbits, etc. with my nd3 and it hasnt spooked any of them.

Here is an update. This morning it was 32 degrees out. Tested the Nd3 and it dimmed out with a fresh battery. Turned on the rechargable hand warmer and then checked it after 10 minutes and it was working again. So my plan works. If I revise anything or make it better will post it here.

I won a ND3 in a hog hunting contest at first I really liked it but it spooked the hogs where I hunt. And the batteries on mine went dead very fast. I finally sold it on ebay. From what I understand they see more like a human than deer or coyotes do. Some hogs run as soon as the brake lights come on some stand right in front of the headlights I think it has to do more with hunting pressure than if they can see the light or not, they learn fast. I now hunt with a 3rd gen pvs-14 behind a eotech it was the best $2000 I ever spent. I know its expensive it took me years to get one but I love it.

Finally maby understand.
The ND3 subzero works but below 40 degrees
you have to use the hand warmer?

http://www.lasergenetics.com/nd3-sub-zero-laser-designator.aspx

X2...I've made shots to 200 yrds with no moon...and it doesn't scare the animal. And it's only $140!!!

XLR250 is a good option, can't say I reached 200 yds with it but it is great bang for the buck

I recently bought the ND3 & mounted it to my rifle and it's worked fine. I'm in TX and had it outside 3 times this month, at night, in weather that's been about low to mid 40s for periods of about 1.5hours at a time. I know that's not a real long field trial but it's worked fine. Any "cold" weather will kill the charge in a battery , even my power drill dies if I leave it in the garage when it's cold, so I made a wrap for it out of part of a thermal top & velcro....creating a small barrier between the metal of the light and the air seemed to help as the performance was steady. The new battery that I used in night #1 worked fine after night #3 this way and I recall that you can expect about 7 hours of life out of one battery in the ND3. Hope that helps from personal experience.

And the cost was about $200.00 for my ND3