Matching your cold bore shot

Wondering if anyone has a secret to getting your cold bore shot to match the rest of your shots.

Am I chasing a unicorn?

Is my SD/ES the too high? Seating depth?

Fairly new to reloading and also a mild perfectionist.

Looking for a half minute including the cold bore shot.

What rifle? Set up?

Your cold bore shot will always be a little off in my opinion. Fortunately it will almost always be consistent. The thing to do is learn where it hits in reference to your other shots and compensate for that on the cold bore shot. Basically aim that amount opposite of where it generally hits. Obviously this takes time behind the gun and a system that will show you a difference to start with.


Hopefully there is more insight incoming because I would like a better answer than mine.


Maybe run a dry patch through it immediately before shooting to remove any humidity build up??…. Idk

Remington 700 in 260 AI

Rifle shoots great but trying to get tightest group possible

4350 with 142 SMKs, federal 210M primers

How much are we talking? Is your cold bore always on a clean bore or are you keeping the gun fouled?

Not all will cold bore in a different location...most of mine after fouled won't be different, I've got one that even fouling won't matter but the clean bore shot is slower. I'm having a hard time thinking of one that is different. If it was different, I'd sight in for the cold bore...odds are higher I won't take but one shot versus 2 and 3 just means things have gotten western and not in a good way.

it's not much at all, gun will shoot 1 minute all day with the cold bore shot included. Yes I keep the fouling in there.

Lately I've subscribed to the "don't clean the gun until it starts throwing shots" school of thought.

Is that bogus? who knows.

Really just OCD about the bore brush touching the crown

Are you shooting suppressed? Shooting off a bipod or sandbag? Rifle bedded? How much POI shift are you seeing from your group?

We've discussed this in detail. We've even had shooters in a class say they have a first round POI shift. Some did, but for most it's a set up variation when they get in behind the rifle. Some shooters take one round to settle in. If you get in behind the rifle with a good natural point of aim and your first shot is the same as shots 2 through whatever, you should see no shift. Yes, there are some variables with the rifle that can cause a shift. But what I've seen had a lot to do with the shooter themselves.

That's a fair point...

Could be cold shooter instead of cold bore.

Yes had the rifle bedded, blueprinted, and (almost) always shooting suppressed. Also shooting off two bags.

POI shift is always under a minute.

After that it will shoot a clover leaf.

As Chad said, cold shooter can be the problem. I shoot rifles most days every week. And most of the time they belong to someone else. For myself, and my recommendation to everyone else is get settled, adjust the scope, close the bolt with no round in the chamber, exhale, squeeze. Dry fire 3 times before checking 100 yard zero. You're programming your breathing and your trigger back into line before a live round. It costs no money, but will pay dividends to your results.

And, it is not uncommon for suppressors to create a POI shift from first round, to the rest of them. The theory is they are full of air, which is an oxidizer. After that first shot, the ambient air is gone.

I'm with Chad...if you've eliminated the shooter, change something. Obviously, the easiest thing to change is the primer...this might require you to tweak the powder charge but it should tell you if it's the load combination. Only change one thing at a time so then you'll know what happened.

Also, for a hunting rifle...I'd likely not change anything and deal with it, especially if it clover leafs and the initial shot is as close as you're saying.

Solid advice here.

Thank you gentlemen!

Not at all. But a useful discussion of the topic would be futile here.

Several good discussions of the topic available Here

Dan I’m not sure why you’re wasting your time on this forum if we’re clearly all idiots.


I may very well be wrong on this subject since shooters with far more experience than me disagree, but where exactly do you come in?

Guess where you are?

IME the higher quality the barrel, the less the cold bore/warm bore zero deviates.

Something like a Bartlein will have less deviation than a factory Remington barrel.

Interesting: The majority of the people on your link agree with the 3-4 most knowledgeable people on this thread.

I like the dry fire practice it has helped me I feel like quite a bit.

It’s almost the exact same thread from beginning to end


@ wp graph…at least it’s not a YouTube link, he’s graduated to the Hide. Be careful over there TCD, you think we’re hard on ya…those guys will rip your head off and [censored] down your throat

Then laugh about it.

just me but if your cold bore shot is over 500 yards might make a difference?

I've seen too many cold bore 500-yard shots which would kill any game animal. These were fired by Great guns by great shooters who know their guns and Dope. Most of the cold bore shots are not more than 3" off center hold.

I think your dope is much more important than any cold bore shot.

Agreed. It was more a question of ‘can it be done?’ as opposed to actually needing it for anything.

.2 Mil is .2 Mil. 1/2 MOA is 1/2 MOA

A miss is a miss, no matter the distance.

If your zero isn't solid, there's no since in worry about any DOPE. You don't get DOPE until you have a zero.

Hold your breath for two minutes.

I always see a slight shift no more than a 1/10 of a mil shooting suppressed. It’s most apparent in my gas guns. No matter how much I tune the gas system it’s a boring consistent result. This usually doesn’t impact my overall goal making hits on steel. I would argue this is why BR and F class guys don’t run cans like the prs guys. I attribute this phenomenon to rate or velocity of the expanding gases, displacement of ambient gases, and the pressure curve of specific loads. No empirical evidence but what I recall from physics and dynamics in college leads me to believe there is some accuracy in my presumption.

This is a good thread Dusty. I hope it keeps going.

Thicker barrel and waiting several minutes between shots have been the two most significant factors after good load development in minimizing cold bore POI shift for me.

I wish Dan would go post on the Hide. I will go watch with

Chewed up, spit out, and banned probably in one day.

You've got Trashcan Dan pegged.

I am going to try JGs suggestion of dry firing next outing. I’ve always saw a .5 moa shift after the first round though.

I have found that it can help me "get in the zone." It seems to take a lot of concentration the stay there once you find it, and there are days I just can't do it. Shooting several times a week would surely help. Pretty soon I'll be able to shoot that often.

Map your cold bore shot on a separate target over several days. Compare it with groups shot after cold bore shot. Some rifles put them all in the same group. Some don’t. For the ones that don’t, if you know the adjustment, you can put them all together in the same group.

For me this was my cold shot. 308AR10 @ ~ 80 yds, prone on 31F asphalt, bipod and my hand under the stock. 165gr GC PCd, 2400 fps load. 10 shots each group. Semi rapid fire. Flyers due to shivers. I'm sure it would be worse for a longer range. Same load in summer in sunflower field, did near MOA @200, time to drive gator and reset steel. Typically run a #9 wet patch after shooting to wipe out loose stuff. For me, shooter causes first shot flyer.

Did group II include the hit near the bullseye?

Pretty good shooting right there regardles

Im confused but I stay that way when it comes to shooting stuff. Question-you are asking why cold bore is different than others instead of why are others different than cold bore. Seems like thats an important distinction.
For me, as a hunter, the cold bore is the important one. As Judd said, the rest its probably gonna get western and a hairs difference wont matter.
Maybe, more importantly, I think you got some Goldilocks going on.
I think most anyone would say that if you shoot "a lot" in a row that barrel will heat up and give you some poor shots=porridge is too hot.
Cold bore you are saying is not good either=porridge is too cold.
Your string(how many?) of shots in between you say are real good=porridge is just right.
Thats probably not helpful, but its all I got.
Good luck and Im glad youre aware you may be splitting hairs.

After further thoughts I still stand by my cold bore shift is a thing statement.

Here’s why,

At a match last year I hit the 2” cold bore swinger at 500 yards. Unfortunately so did two other people so the three of us had to do it again. I knew exactly where my cold bore was going to hit Vs the next shot and aimed accordingly. I hit it again, the other two didn’t.

Two different points of aim, same impact, 2” at 500 yards.

I might add that I did terrible the rest of the match and packed up quickly so there’s that.

group II include the hit near the bullseye?
Yes, called flyer, 'C'. Definitely ME. Prone on parking area, shooting at a berm, jeans and sweat shirt after the sleet storm prev. night in NW Ar. 1:10 DPMS LR308 16" barrel. All shots from mag.

I guess I have gotten lucky over the years as all I have ever seen or experienced is a cold shooter issue versus a true cold bore shift.

Of course the rifle is ZEROED and zero stop is set and ballistic chart run. JEEZ JG, give me a little credit

wp, thats good shooting. Curious, if you hadnt adjusted point of aim, how far off would the shot of been?

Zero stop set?

Where, a hard stop at zero?

If so, what happnes when you need to move your zero down, and you're up against the stop. I know what happens. You remove your turret, move your zero stop, then try to zero the scope again. I leave about .5 Mil down travel available for this reason.

I say again, if the zero isn't good, then the rest is irrelevant.

you're like my old boss who just died from being Mr. negative.

It's not about negative or positive. It is about proper steps to take, to make things work in someone's favor.

gotcha

Attempting to prove first cold shot to be rifle or shooter would be a chore. Need a led sled type rest, fire cold, then another. Wait a day and try again. Problem with led sled is it secures the barrel so free floated or bedded, changes harmonics. So use a spring loaded tie-down on the sling point of the forearm? Is it possible to have a cold bore flyer? Yes, proving it is something else. The warehouse gang verified but I'm not going to try.

Terrible advice.

Sleds and vices make them shoot different. They are prohibited on my range.

If shooter is the error, become a better shooter.

It is not hard to prove. Document everything, every time you shoot. POI compared to POA, day after day. When you see a pattern (.2 Mil high, .2 Mil right) as an example on every cold bore shot, it is not the shooter.

some members need to work on their people skills


besides me of course

Buzz, you were in sales, right?

Some members need thicker skin and more developed brains.

Sneaky and I reading from the same sheet of music again.

great song , love to hear ya'll sing, .

yes but the only way you can get the gun to shoot the same every time, mechanically.

That is still false, no matter how many times you write it.

It might be the case for you, but not the whole world.

JG what is your standard shooting setup?

Need a gear rundown.

Atlas bipod and weebad bag?

Im sure JG will answer but Ive seen him set up and I think you are close. Some type bypod usually and some type bag. Prone.