Can this be done?

I posted this in another forum and wanted to get some more input.
I am thinking about doing some new tests on different setups and I want some feedback. My focus is on short draw low draw weight archers.
If they can do it, anybody can!
Here is what I'm thinking,
Can a 50 lb bow with 25" draw shoot through the humerus/scapula joint of a 145 lb buck?
Can a 40 lb bow with 25" draw shoot through the scapula of an 800+lb feral bull?
Can a 50 lb bow with 25" draw shoot through the humerus (that bone is 2" in diameter) of an 800+lb feral bull?
Can any of this even be done?
YES? NO?
Why? Why not?
Any thoughts or opinions are more than welcome.

Too many variables to consider

DFWPI, I am talking about adjusting all variables and covering everything that I can think of. We will be taking all 12 penetration enhancing factors into account. But, can this be done? Can the average bow hunter accomplish this with their current setup even if they are shooting 70 or 80 lbs? What variables do you think that I should take into account?

Yes
Yes(under 20 yards)
No

Not all bows or broadheads are created equal.

Best beat on broadhead would be a single bivel < or =1 1/8 2 blade fixed

On 70lbs
Yes
Yes (as long as its the back middle of the scapla
Possibly but bet it deflects. On any animal that's the no-no zone. Even if it did get through wouldn't be by much and bet BH is destroyed

Same deal on broadhead also.

Variable are simple arrow weight and broadhead.

You can use arrow momentuem and KE to find top, middle and bottom of arrow weights

Thanks for the input BOBO. I have some more questions but ill have to get to them later.

Gonna be a lot of pissed off ranchers when they find these bulls with arrows hanging out of them like a porcupine.

You'd be suprised. Once you get in maverick country. ..feral bull/cow can cause lots of issues. Some bovine just don't have manners, long run a bullet is cheaper then the efforts to catch and sale them. Dog, horse, tack and trailer damage adds up quick. Although at todays cattle prices it would be tempting to get punchy

No problem, it will be interesting and I look forward to your results

BOBO, I have to agree with your statement about the feral bulls. I've been a cowboy for hire for years and still am in my spare time. I put down a couple ferals a year that are classified as problems. Even had one kill a horse out from under the ranch owner. So now we chalk it up to a dangerous game bow hunt. No better way to practice for Cape Buffalo or Asiatic.

I had to put my horse down after I had one come back up the rope a couple years ago. This was after it two days to catch him using dogs. Got him choked down an in the catch trailer. He broke middle gate and went over the back gate. I jumped on my horse got a loop on him and he came back up it before I could get it tight. He would of got me to if it wasn't for my dog.

He got 243 to the temple after that.

I bought a dart gun later that week

So please clarify. Are you trying to justify using a low draw weight, short draw length bow as a "dangerous game" capable hunting bow?

Passthru,
Not at all. I am not trying to justify using low draw bow for dangerous game. All though it has been done. At least low draw weight for dangerous game animals. I know guys who have taken cape buffalo with a 70lb recurve, another who took a huge Asiatic with a 65 lb long bow, and just recently another guy who took a American Bison with a 60lb compound. But that is neither here nor there.
What started me thinking about this was watching some hunting shows and watching guys who were shooting 65-70 lbs bows. Even though they were harvesting the animals they were not getting a pass through. Heck the broad head wasnt even getting out the other side due to a rib bone. In my opinion, If you are not getting a complete pass through on a deer then your arrow and broad head design is flawed. Two holes kills better than one. My wife and I are both bow hunters and the most common issue and concern we hear is arrow penetration. Especially from the women, men, and youth short draw and low draw weight archers. All the proshops that myself or any of my friends have delt with tell the short/low draw archers to use the lightest setup they can, get there fast. That just doesnt seem right to me. So I figured lets test spme equipment and ideas on bones that are big and most likely to cause issues when hit by any setup, find out what really works, and what companies heads and arrows hold up the best.

Outdoorsman81,I've gotten a pass-thru on many an animal, as well as some that did not pass-thru. But in the end, all animals were dead within a short distance.

I still feel that there are too many variables on what you are asking. There are a ton of animals that have been harvested with a recurve/longbow at 40 pounds, and with a heavy arrow, complete pass-thru.

Look up Ashby broad head penetration studies. It's all about arrow and broad head design. The higher the FOC the better penetration you get.

Ah, I see. I've always been a shoot as heavy a draw as I can guy mostly because I have a short draw. That said I've shot Satellite and Thunderhead fixed blade heads and have had great performance. I have had to drop down in weight and a less aggressive cam and so far on Javlina and coons I'm a little concerned with penetration. So I'm going to use a true COC head and see how that goes. I agree. Two bleeding holes are better than one.

Yall take this stuff to the next level... I just pull back and shoot haha

Passthru,
I am the same way. I have an 85lb guardian and an 82lb insanity CPXL. But what I have learned over years is the draw weight really is not the biggest deal and for short draw archers the weight of the arrow, FOC, broadhead etc... (12 penetration enhancing factors) are more important. What setup are you shooting? draw weight, length,what broadhead, total arrow weight, etc...

Elite Energy 32 set at 60lbs with 26.5", 400 arrows 26" long. 9.1 gpi I believe. 100 grain points. Phasing out the Thunderheads and going to Montecs. Don't worry. I won't be taking it after feral bulls or grizzly bears.

Awesome bow. My next bow is going to be an Elite. As long as you pick the right arrow and broadhead I think you will have no problem taking a grizzly with it. So what issues are you having that are bringing you concern?

No issues yet. Waiting to see what happens on some pigs. My Z7E blew through most of them so we will see.

I would enjoy reading your study.

When I began bowhunting, letoff was only 20%, so the holding weight was a consideration. I shot a 45 lb bow for years and put a bunch of deer and pigs in the freezer (I was holding 36 lbs at full draw!). I was using aluminum arrows and Thunderheads with an overdraw (2214 arrows, if I remember correctly). They were stiff, but I tuned for them.

I kept everything under 25 yards and never had any problems with penetration. Maybe half were pass thru.

There are some who believe that 2 holes are better than one, and others that want that broadhead to stay in the body cavity to do as much damage as possible. I can see the wisdom in both.

Bobo and doubleB are right on, single bevel broadheads give the most penetration bar none. Also the single bevel head will spin in sync with your fletchings making them fly straighter than your regular broadheads!!!

Ok test is prety much complete. We have a couple more shots to try. but based on what I have seen so far I think i can predict what will happen. Until I am 100% complete and I get all my ducks in a row I dont want to release to much info. Figured I would give you a rundown on the equipment we tested. For arrows we tested Beman, CX, Goldtip, and Grizzly stik. Broadheads we tested Rage, Montec, Muzzy, Zwicky, Massaai, and Ashby. So far we really only had two broad heads survive. We had several arrows break and broad heads well I uh yeah, I am sure you can imagine. And yes it was the single bevel broad heads that succeeded. The rotational force of a single bevel can not be matched. Why dont more bow hunters shoot single bevel broad heads. More to follow as thing develop.

Not so much the single bivel as broadhead design and strength. Fix two blade none aluminum ferral will always be stronger.

They have thicker blades and more steel and typically moderate cutting diameter.

Try an ulmer edge.


To anwser the question most north american game aren't that tough, and don't require two blade heads

The single bevels have sold me, especially with high FOC heavy arrow. I shoot a 58# recurve with 225 grain Tuffhead broad head and 225 grain stainless steel insert glued in Goldtip arrows. I shot a bear last year and the arrow broke the front leg bone on the far side with complete pass through. Penetration of that arrow is unreal. It's not real fast but it's fast enough. According to Ashby studies, the insert is actually the weakest point in the arrow.