What is the most efficient big game cartridge?

Looking for the Goldilocks round in terms of energy transferred down range. (Preferably with equal or less powder relative to its peers)

Max range is 600 yards.

Wildcats are fair game.

What say ye?

180+ grain 30-06!

Is it too late to change that to 175 grain 7 mag?

Better ask JG or Chad.

I would rather to choose my position based on zero experience and argue my point relentlessly until i get the last post before the thread dies.

On second thought, i would rather to ask JG or Chad

Depends on the big game sought big game covers a large spectrum of needs

LOL! When you say "Big Game" are we talking elk and moose, or bigger stuff?

On the "regular" hunting calibers, the hardest hitting round I've seen is the 28 Nosler with a Berger 195 Hybrid, 190 Hybrid, or 197 SMK. The downrange energy at longer ranges is very high. It retains it's velocity and energy because of the high BC and high muzzle velocity. I've shot this and 300 WM with 220 and 230 grain. The 300 WM with the heavy 225 and 230 grain hit VERY hard, but a 28 Nosler with 195 Hybrid running 3000+ fps is stupid hard hitting. (This is just the observation watching steel targets swing and move after being hit at longer ranges.) Yes, you can argue for bigger rounds, like a 338 Lapua or Norma Mag, and yes, those hit hard also. But you're getting into bigger actions than a standard magnum. 28 Nosler gets my vote. But a big 30 cal magnum is right on it's heels, like a 300 WM or PRC.

But, everything becomes a trade off at some point. Do you want heavier bullets (i.e. going from 7mm to 30 cal) going slower with good BC, or decent hunting weight bullet (like a 7mm 180 or 195 grain) going faster with a high BC with a little less weight.

But, when you say "efficient", I automatically think about good gas mileage. The 325 WSM is one of the most "efficient" rounds for pushing the heaviest bullet the fastest with the least amount of powder. It does this by good case geometry. A few weeks ago in another post we were talking about the 338 WSM (325 WSM necked up). That also makes for a VERY efficient round.

Big game meaning, it will kill anything in North America

Specifically, not what caliber delivers the most energy down range in absolute terms.

But what caliber delivers the highest ratio of energy relative to its charge and bullet weight.

Is there such thing as a magical combo of case design, bullet weight and charge that yields above average energy relative to its peers.

28 Nosler

195 gr Berger EOL

MV 3000 fps

You should see it hit the far steel. It is a 12 pound sledge!

My 7 Rem Mag and 180's has served me well. But it's getting retired and replaced with the 28 Nosler combo, in a lighter rifle.

When you say big game how big are you talking? In the US any of the big 7s or 30s. In Africa there is only one, 375 H&H or any of the other cartridges that were designed to duplicate the 375 H&H performance.

.338 Win Mag with .225 Accubone, no tracking needed.

30-378

The walking reloading encyclopedia has spoken.

Efficiency to me is what gets you the energy down range with least powder and a bullet that will be slippery and hold it’s velocity well.
7PRC might be in that Goldilocks spot. 300 Ruger Compact magnum isanother that does that well.

You will like it. I hunt with a guy that has a custom 28 Nosler with a 22" barrel. He is getting 2965 with the 195's, and hit a good accuracy node and stopped right there before hitting any sign of pressure. The performance I witnessed on deer between 270 and 578 yards was outstanding.

The smaller the cartridge the more efficient they are. A 300 blackout is much more than a 300 Winchester magnum.

But a 300 Magnum delivers way more energy on target than a 300 blackout. So you really wanting a balance (IMO) and when you really look at it you're going to end up with a 30-06 as being the best balance that there is. That's why it's been King as long as it has. Best balance of power to powder used, and recoil absorbed.

6.8 Western


I really have no clue, just know some of the podcast guys rave about it.

That is what I think of as well. Killing anything in North America out to 600 yards knocks a lot of efficient cartridges out of the running.

The best answer yet!

How big is big? 130 lbs whitetail, 300 lbs of hog, or 600 lbs of black bear??????????? And I haven't even left North Carolina yet.

I’m of the opinion here that there is no replacement for displacement so something like a 300 norma mag or a 338 Lapua or even a 416 chey tac..

Kill anything that you can see within a mile..

Do it big, don’t fool around with a little tiny 7mm

I choose to ignore the entire concept of "efficiency" when it comes to cartridges. I think it's a silly notion from the git-go.

.22-250, 75 gr A-Max, 35.0 gr of powder 3200 fps

.223 A.I. 80 gr ELD-M, 24.0 gr of powder 3080 fps

Doesn't the .223 A.I. look more efficient?

From "efficiency" stand point its the .280 Rem. The .270 is slightly over-bore & the .30-06 is slightly under-bore.

NO, not really.






I ran ONLY Varget in those calculations, figuring that's probably the powder you looked at...but I really have no clue where you pulled up those numbers.

Velocity comes at a cost, that's all there is to it. "Efficiency" of a cartridge means nothing to me---it'll either do the job, which is to launch the bullet I want to use at an acceptable velocity, or it won't. If I'm not willing to buy powder by the keg then I don't load .50 BMG.

It is my opinion that efficiency, energy, and all these calculated characterizations are just mental masturbation.

Those numbers are my own loads. Varget in the .22-250. Different powder in the .223 A.I.

Very similar ballistics but one is running a third less powder than the other and not using the almost impossible to find large rifle primer.

.260 Rem, 43.5 gr H-4350, 140 gr @ 2800 fps
6.5 Creedmoor, 42.4 gr H-4350, 140 gr @ 2800 fps

The Creedmoor is more efficient.

There are lots of reasons to choose one cartridge over another. Your own priorities and desires lead you in one direction and my priorities and desires lead me in another---in a multitude of different aspects of this game. Neither of us is right, OR wrong...we're both just engaged in the pursuit of happiness like everyone else is.

Yessir!

Could not agree more.

Before the thread dies, what about 300 PRC? What a ridiculous freaking cartridge. Doesn’t it deliver more energy on a lot less powder than a .28 nosler?

I was just looking at 30 caliber cartridges and dreaming about the next gun when I saw this on the webs. Holy carp!

https://ammo.com/comparison/28-nosler-vs-300-prc

No it does not.

That chart it bogus and it's skewing the numbers in favor of the 300 PRC, which is a mighty fine cartridge.

Put a 195 gr Berger EOL in the 28 Nosler at 3000 fps and then have a look at ballistics. Specifically energy delivery 500 yards and beyond.

I am sure that someone will jump in and correct me but I think the best milage so to speak can be had from the wsm line of cartridges.

I thought it might be a marketing piece, like most gun writing. I appreciate it.

whats the ballistics on a 215 EOL at 2900

No. The 300 PRC shooting a 212 ELDX compared to a 28 Nosler running a 180 to 195 grain use almost EXACTLY the same amount of powder. If you were using the same powder for each (Anything from an H1000 to Retumbo burn rate), they use almost exactly the same amount of powder. But, the 28 Nosler pushes a slightly lighter bullet faster, AND the 7mm bullets have a higher BC. Sometimes a much higher BC. 28 Nosler is one of my top sellers, with about 30,000+ rounds a year. We've tested it thoroughly with all the different powders and bullets. A 180 grain Berger Hybrid or VLD, 175 ELD-X (for the 9" twist barrels), and a 195 EOL (for the 8" twist barrels) will out perform ANY cartridge in drop, wind drift, and down range energy (at longer ranges). It is one of the best cartridges on the market currently.

The 7mm option bullet is also one of the best options for ELR (extreme long range) on standard actions. I've run the Berger 195 and Sierra 197 SMK out past a mile, and it will perform better than any 30 cal, and even better than the 338 Lapua/Norma Mag options with less wind drift and drop.

You know what reading on the internet will get you…

With efficiency brought into the discussion I think of doing more with less, or at least doing similar with less. There are folks on the web saying you can achieve 2900-3000 fps with a 7mm wsm built on a medium/long action with 195’s. Curious what others have to say on that.

I know my 300wsm with 165 gr bonded bullets has served me well on every thing from a grouse to cow bison in Wyoming. 165-168 gr bonded bullets.
It worked well on cow bison at 452 yds.

5 mph cross wind drift in Mil, and ft/lbs of energy at the target

28 Nosler 195 gr Berger EOL, 3000 fps MV, bullet length 1.638" G-7 .387

100Y 3578/ .1
200Y 3280/ .1
300Y 3001/ .2
400Y 2742/ .2
500Y 2500/ .3
600Y 2275/ .4
700Y 2066/ .4
800Y 1872/ .5
900Y 1693/ .6
1000Y 1527/ .6

300 PRC 215 gr Berger Hybrid Target, 2900 fps MV, bullet length 1.595" G-7 .354

100Y 3651/ .1
200Y 3313/ .1
300Y 3001/ .2
400Y 2712/ .3
500Y 2444/ .3
600Y 2199/ .4
700Y 1973/ .5
800Y 1766/ .6
900Y 1574/ .7
1000Y 1399/ .8

Out to 600 they are pretty close.

Yes they are. And I don't think any large game animal would tell the difference.

But I do enjoy the wind cheater that the 28 Nosler is. When I've shot them on my range, see mirage and hold into the wind, oops it didn't need that much wind hold. Hit the steel anyway, but almost exactly where I was aiming, into the wind.

Not to say the big 30 wouldn't be the same way. It's close. But remember, that's a 5 mph hold. Double that hold for 10 mph. Triple that hold for 15 mph.

This thread just reminds me why my 30/06 is enough and i don’t need another rifle. Everything is splitting hairs. Except maybe a .308, not because it is better but because the last five years taught me i need one.

Boy, I must really be getting old. Those recoil levels have completely lost their appeal at my house.

my elk experience with vld is only 115, 130 and 195, but Ive heard for what every reasoning the 215 does quicker dispatch, even though on paper it essentially the same. again no personal experience with 215 so take it with a grain of salt

I want something like a 300 prc loaded with a 180
grain SST. I bet it would disembowl any critter around here.

Not going to comment on efficiency, but I'll give you numbers on my personal rifle. I shoot a 7 SAUM which is Remington's answer to the WSM. I'm shooting a 175 gr Berger EH at 2958 (chronoed) with 61.7 gr of powder. I'm doing this on a short action with a 22-in barrel. So the whole setup is on the smaller end and I'm pushing a 175 at 2958, so under someone's definition it may be more efficient.

I do know the 7 WSM takes slightly more powder than the 7 SAUM to achieve the same velocity so I would call the SAUM more efficient than the WSM.

Just my .02.....

Disclaimer: I’m not qualified to discuss killing stuff like brown bears. Especially at 600 yards. Now with that out of the way, if brown bears @ 600 are part of the criteria I would start with a .338 Win Mag and maybe go up from there. Efficiency likely would be my last consideration.

A kind of related comment… A friend of mine came out a couple weekends ago to help out with some doe culling. He brought a .300 PRC. 10 does died out to 569 yards. It was setup shooting 205 grain Bergers. That cartridge is a beast. The Berger Bullets were somewhat explosive though. Not as tough a bullet as I would want for grizzly bears. It was also to dang heavy to tote around for several days of hunting on foot.. Around 14 pounds scoped and loaded. Cool as heck rig.

For native Texas big game the 6.5’s (creedmoor, 260, swede) hit above their weight. Depending on the criteria you are judging, 7-08 is as good and may be better to 600.

I mean it sounds pretty good to me. So much mass yet so much power, your bullet explodes like a tiny claymore and still blows a big hole coming out. From 400+ yards. I like that

The WSM has about 5 grains more case capacity I would assume if you push both at max pressure the wsm would be faster though.

They make hammers of all shapes and sizes, but with efficiency as a talking point and 600 yards I think a 7mm WSM is a good contender at least if set up right.

Step one in most questions is "define the unit of measurement". What is the proposed unit of measurement?
For "fewest cartridges needed to cover all North American game" at .300 WSM is my pick. Recoil is very reasonable, and you can shoot a 150 at 3350 FPS or a 212 at 2850 FPS. The .30-'06 and .338-'06 AI are very close seconds.
For "fewest cartridges needed to cover NA and African PLAINS game" the .300 WSM is probably still the best choice, but a 9.3x62 will give you a bit more top end without breaking your shoulder.
For "least power needed to adequately take NA game", the 6.5 Creedmoor is very hard to beat, but at longer ranges or vs the largest NA game will be somewhat underpowered. Note that WDM Bell killed most of his elephants with a 7x57 Mauser, so it's technically (though not legally or practically) sufficient for every game animal on Earth. Lt.Col. Patterson killed both of the Tsavo Lions with a SMLE in .303 British (though he may have finished one off with a larger rifle.....the internet has lots of stories).
For "most fun", the answer might be "buy a bunch of rifles because you enjoy loading for and shooting them."
For "cheapest caliber that can cover most NA game shooting factory ammunition", a .308 Win or .30-06 is going be very tough to beat.
For "one caliber to cover 95% of hunting in Texas" a .30-30 or .300 HAMR is nearly impossible to beat.

My answer is a .300 WSM for everything in NA while I'm building a set of Mauser 98s for Africa with a 9.3x62 and a .458 WM. My .300 WSM has a custom neck diameter under SAAMI spec, so even though its a common round it cannot chamber much less safely shoot factory ammo. Conversely the 9.3x62 and .458 were chose specifically because those are two of the easiest calibers to buy in Africa and are both at the BOTTOM end of power required for larger African game. I bring this up because my answer involves nearly all of the possible variations on the original question.