22 Creed officially on its way to be Saami Approved

Well guys, its been a long time since I have been on the forums. But I figured we started the 22 Creed here so we HAD to post this news here. We have officially released a partnership with Hornady to get the 22 Creed Saami approved. Horizon will be the exclusive supplier of Hornady Sammi approved ammo for a couple year here on the front end. We also have a whole new line of price point rifles just for the 22 creed on 22creedmoor.com (also where you can get the ammo). Here is the podcast with Hornady where we release the news today. Here's to making the perfect Texas round official.


[img]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bD3wDT7i3M&t=271s[/img]

Congrats Derrick. You guys have definitely done all the major legwork regarding the best use of the creed case.

Thank you its been a long road. I was just searching on here looking at old post from 2014 when we built the first ones with DStroud

Although not built by you guys mine is of similar age. I have been a fan ever since the first few rounds. It has been a true easy button in regards to load development goes and the on game performance is stellar. It's as if a lighting bolt hits and jolts the life out of critters.

Just wait till you shoot the new ELDX that is build just for the 22 creed.

This is very intriguing. Finally a fast heavy .22 that can make that speed in a 18 inch barrel. I don’t reload, so I stuck to factory ammo. 243 has long been my go-to varmint gun but the 22CM may take its place.

Congrats!

Congratulations!!!! I just jumped on the 22 Creed wagon recently and killed an axis doe with it this past weekend. I thought the ELDX might be the bullet you've been hinting at in the podcast. Can't wait to give it whirl this fall.

Congratulations Derrick! I know how much work y’all have put into this to make it a reality.

That 80gr ELDX will definitely put the hurt on the deer/ pig sized critters.

What's the MV on the 80 gr ELD-X?

At what barrel length?

Congrats Horizon...great work and cartridge is pretty slick. I'm a fan of the 22...the 6 and 22 are what this cartridge should've been from the get go.

I am going to go from vague memory when we were in W Texas chasing Aoudad I checked mine which had 26 inch barrel on it at that time and speed was 3350+
I also chronographed the 18 inch barreled rifles Derrick had with him and they were in the 3100+or minus range.
I am in Southlake working today but will be home tonight. I have to sightin one of the new “price point “ rifles Derrick referenced above so I will check speed on it versus my long barrel tomorrow evening and post it up as I think I still have a few of the pre-release test ammo left.

I just popped it into QL with an 18-inch barrel since that is the only barrel length at all mentioned in the thread so far. It looks like 3100 fps is very doable...but I don't see QuickLOAD solutions as "data," but rather just a calculation. It's probably correct, plus or minus 300 fps. LOL.

A day late to the party, again. I did not see your post until after I submitted mine.

Looks like QL got it pretty close!

I'm pushing 80.5 at 3200 w/ 20" barrel...I'd say QL is spot on, as it seems to me it normally is.

Thank you.

That is zippy!

When accuracy degrades on the 22-243 I will most likely put a 22 Creedmoor tube on it. These days I am woods hunting mostly so don't really need the reach of it but still fun to shoot and stretch it out on occasion.

Is the Vandal the rifle you’re referring to as the new line of price point rifles?

Yes I believe the Vandal model is the one Derrick is referring to.

I may have to split into two posts with all the pictures.
Said I would get some velocities on the new 80gr ELDX 22Creedmoors from Hornady.

These are from the very first run I believe. At that point in time they were still tweaking seating and powder choice. But these numbers should still be very representative of the final product.

Here is pic of ammo.


First up is the new Vandal with 18 inch barrel


Here are velocities and last two zeroing shots as this rifle is being auctioned for a fundraiser.




Now comes my rifle with 20 inch barrel and it was clean and not sighted in with this ammo so take that into consideration.




I shot first shot into dirt just to see where it was hitting the fired two more
Here are those two


Next post my other barrel which is 26 inches

Ok installed the barrel the rifle/scope was sighted in with albeit with an older prototype 70grELD-X and no there are not at this point plans to produce it… my old shot out barrel hated them but my new barrel loves them but when they are gone they are gone.
Anyway here is how the 80gr ELD X did with the long barrel.

Great data DS...thanks for sharing.

What’s the best powder to use in the 18 inch barrel. My Vandal is getting 2900 fps with book maximum loads with 75 grain bullets?

The powder that will give the most velocity will be Reloder 26.
Problem is finding it.
From there try Alliant MR4000 or Staball 6.5

I have a good supply of Reloader 26. This is my highest powder charge load I tried.
Peterson SRP brass
CCI 450 Primer
43.0 grains Reloader 26
Hornady 75 grain Amax
2851 FPS
ES 3
SD 2.4
Group size .405

Load data I have is maximum charge weight at 43.2. So still a little below maximum. But that extra .2 grains won't get me another 250 fps.
One thing I noticed was the large amount of carbon fouling with this load. I've been breaking in the barrel and the carbon fouling was off the charts.
I just got in 500 Peterson LRP brass so will try again and see if the large rifle primers make a difference.

I'm loving the fit and finish and accuracy with the Vandal. What an unbelievable price for such a quality rifle. Balance with or without a suppressor
is just perfect for taking anything in Texas.

Hard to argue with that accuracy and the consistency and coyotes don’t know how fast a bullets going when it hits them.
I am assuming you are getting data from Peterson website as I think they are the only ones I am aware of that checked pressures. Also not sure what seating depth they were using.

The powder that Hornady is using is not available to us but I have had no problem matching it with R26. Also you said you were breaking in the barrel. How many rounds at this point?
I have reloaded 75gr much higher than that but my load that I have found in three barrels that “seems” (but not pressure tested) fine for good brass life is 44.0gr with OAL 2.640
That’s also with Peterson brass.

Every barrel is different …some are slower some are faster than norm.
My Bergara and Tikka 6.5 factory barrels were same length and there was 75 fps difference in them with same load. Tikka hammer forged barrels seem to have a reputation of being slow from reading the internet but not sure if it’s anecdotal or it’s proven.

I think the heavy carbon may be from the copper remover that’s in the Alliant powders but it cleans out pretty easy if you stay ahead of it.

You are on the right track for sure and glad the rifle is shooting well!

Thanks for that info. I got that load info from Peterson. I don't believe they tested that load for pressure. It was just an estimate. So it my be a little on the low side. I guess it's a sign of old age when you don't feel the need to push everything to the maximum. I'll play with it a little more and move a little higher with the powder charge. I do have a keg of Staball and will try some of that as well. H4831 and H4350 gave similar results. But an extra 200 or so fps won't kill anything any deader if you put the bullet in the right place.

22 creed with the 88gr eldm would be a fantastic deer combo.

22-243 here but similar velocities I really like the 75gr Swift Sirocco for deer at about 3400fps it ha dome very well. For deer and hogs it has done well from 10 yards to over 400 yards. It does copper foul faster than the others though but shoots well in my rifle.

When I was shooting it the most I had never heard of a Creedmoor round

I beg to differ. There’s a reason I shoot 243 over everything else for coyotes and that’s the speed upon impact and how hard it locks them up. It’s way more impressive than any slower cartridge.

Speed kills but you are getting that with what a 243 and a 55 or 58gr bullet. Load that bullet weight in a 22 Creedmoor and watch the same results. One of my favorite coyote rounds is the 17 Remington, mine runs 4250 with a 25gr pill every Coyote I have shot with it has locked up and died right there with no flopping about including gut shots and no pelt damage. Keep it inside 200 yards though.

You are correct in agreeing with Roy Weatherby though "Speed Kills"

True, but I’ve always shot the 75 or 78 grain Vmax for coyotes. Best of both worlds, fast and heavy(ish).

I’m curious to see how the muzzle flash and blast is compared to a 18 inch 243.

I'm sure this has been addressed elsewhere, but if you were to shoot 22 Creed and 6 Creed in the same weight rifle, is the 22 Creed perceived recoil significantly less? Or pretty close to the same?

You can tell a difference but it's not a massive difference.

Two points here. Yes you will have less felt recoil and muzzle blast from the 22 Creedmoor but as you shorten the barrels on both they get worse obviously. I would say since the 6mm CM and 243 Win are burning 5-10gr more powder the shorter you go the bigger the felt difference.

An excellent point, because I always choose shorties. So you’re saying 22 Creed is (probably) noticeably less recoil than the 6 in something like an 18” barrel?

I would say yes.. example load in 22 Creedmoor with 75 gr is 41.0 gr H4350 and in the 6mm Creedmoor that same weight bullet uses 48.0gr so muzzle blast will be worse no doubt.

Thanks Dstroud! got a little behind but you got the data out. As far as the recoil question about the 6mm vs 22 Backfire does a really good comparison as well that includes the recoil differences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOHJQ_bpSwg

I remembered having a couple of boxes of Copper Creek 22 Creedmoor 70 grain ammo. I ran three rounds through my Vandal to see how velocities compared to my handloads. Average velocity was 2926fps for a three shot group. Which falls right in line with published load data. So maybe I have a slow barrel that will speed up with more use. Or it seems lots of people are running over pressure loads. I think I'll just run at the lower published velocities and be happy with a well balanced rifle that shoots extremely well. It will be interesting to see what velocity the Hornady factory ammo will deliver.

That's slow! I'm running 75 grain bullets at 3300-3500 fps, depending on barrel lengths. Some shooters are running short barrels suppressed and getting 3300+ fps with 75 grain ELD-M bullets.

I’m assuming your loads are pressure tested? What pressures are you running?

Yes, when you get sticky bolt lift, you back off the powder charge!!

True pressure testing costs 10's of thousands of dollars for ONE load. It's not rocket science (but it kind of is) on where you need to be at to run safe ammo.

“Yea sticky bolts happen when you get 10,000 psi plus over SAMMI.

For the 22 Creedmoor, if you look at multiple published reloading data, you can easily achieve 3400+ fps with a 75 grain bullet with multiple powders. And I think some of that published reloading data is conservative.

I'm doing a load work up right now in a 223 Rem Tikka Varmint with a 24" barrel now. One of the loads I tested is running a 68 grain Hornady BTHP at 2993 fps. Why would you want to run a 70 grain in a 22 Creedmoor at 2926 fps? All I'm saying is that is VERY slow for a 22 CM. You're giving up 400 fps. That's a lot.

I haven’t seen pressure tested published data that shows 3400fps with a 75gr bullet although I would think it’s very possible with 26 inch barrel and be under SAAMI max

The Hornady load I showed on page one was pressure tested and it has the 80 gr going 3400 so it’s doable but short barrels with small holes in them lose velocity fast when chopped off

That's big news! Congrats!

Just an update. I got in some Alpha large rifle primer brass. What a difference in velocity. Using Reloader 26 I've settled on a load that is running right around 3100 fps. Last group I shot measured .270. Coyotes and other critter beware.

Good to hear!

Just got my action and barrel ordered. Excited to give this caliber a try.