AR-15 S&W M&P Sport

I just don't know why people are doggin' these guns. I bought one and it spits them shells out just like all the others will.

The only difference I can see... is on the price tag.

Lets see... it ain't got a dust cover. Well I don't see me sleeping in a foxhole any time soon.

Umm... it don't have a forward assist. Well, if I have a shell that refuses to chamber correctly, I'm gonna rack the bolt and move on to another shell. The last thing I would do is force it to chamber.

The barrel ain't chrome lined. Well, lets see. It is lined with a Melonite Coating (64-68 rockwell hardness) instead of chrome (69-71 rockwell hardness). There is not that much difference. The barrel is still marked .223 / 5.56.

I think I'll keep my S&W and ya'll can have your mom and pop build AR's

Seems like you got a little chip on your shoulder for no reason. And my mom and pop AR has better components than most higher end ones.

I didn't mean to come across as if I have a chip on my shoulder. I just don't see what the big deal is... I'm trying to stay objective.

Let me ask tho... what components does your AR have that are better?

The dust cover is for keep dust and debris out of the weapon, the foward assist is for help rounds in due to a dirty chamber. 2 things which any AR I own will have.

If you like your SW Good, I think you should get alot more rounds downrange before you start talking about how well made it is.

I personally would not own one, that does mean there bad or what I do choose to own is better, But facts are facts you pay for quality.

kd, lets talk about this and with all due respect you will learn something. What you refer to as mom and pop really mean amateur builders. Some of these pops build stuff that exceeds anything out there on the open market or some will specify components for the pros to build truly exceptional stuff.
The beauty of the AR platform is that with a few hundred dollars worth of tools a few videos and a few hours of instruction you too can become a competent gunsmith. I'm an amateur but if I'm wrong I want to know about and it. I'm willing to learn and take advice which I think is good.
Here's the problem with the S&W Sport. First it's not the M&P Tactical and there are features of it which are of concern. It's strictly an entry level weapon in all respects and you can think of it as the S&W Sigma equivalent in a rifle. If S&W carried over the technology and specs from CMT for the Sport then you do have a base for a nice weapon in the future. It's stricly a plinking weapon and I would trust it as defense weapon about as much as I would trust a Sigma.
Here are some of the problems. The barrel and bore are 4140 carbon steel unchromed which is an immediate red flag especially in the bore. Using melonite to harden the barrel is interesting but to my knowledge is unproven. What I think they are doing is making a cheaper barrel with the Melonite process which they already have in place. I'm already worried about extraction even though melonite is supposed to reduce friction.
Then there is the bolt itself. What you probably don't know is that the bolt is really an expendable and in the military is supposed to be replaced every 7500 rounds. IMHO the bolt is the weak part of the design. Mil parts are Carpenter 180 steel which is case hardened and then finished to very tight specs. Not only must the bolt specs be perfect but the case hardening must be as well otherwise if it's overdone then it becomes too brittle and will fail or deform. In the Sport from what I've read at least the bolt if not the entire carrier is chromed. Chrome is fine but very expensive if done well. IMHO it also adds size that makes lock up in the most precise part of the weapon difficult. If done cheaply it will flake and then you'll have real problems. I'm not sure why S&W did this other than they were concerned about the functionality. In short I don't think the bolt will hold up that well under prolonged shooting. Just my two cents. I play with these things for fun but smurf and Dallas have done or do it for a living.
When these things fail they often don't give you a lot of warning. I've always thought of the AR platform in terms of no matter what you're using it for, it should always the capacity of being a SHTF weapon as well. This one does not.

I actually think the Sport has a purpose, as it is an entry level rifle and may actually get someone into the "sport".

I do agree with KD that there are many "garage-built" parts guns out there that are inferior.

I do agree with the fact that there can be custom-built high-end rifles. I know a few that build good ones, and a few that don't. It's hard to tell. And I don't want any trouble with the gun itself, or with the legality of one built for profit by a non-licensed builder.

I prefer Colt, Bushmaster, et al factory-built guns for reliability, durability, and liability reasons. Most police departments do too.

KD, welcome to the AR club.

There are some folks out there (myself included) who will not buy S&W because they joined forces with the Clinton administration to limit gun rights.

If you think that Smithy is up to par with some of these "mom and pop builds" you are wrong. There is a reason those mom and pop builds cost double (sometimes triple or more) the cost of the Smithy. In the event we find our selves in some sort of conflict right here on our own soil I want the best gun I can afford. A custom built mom and pop build built by me fits that criteria perfectly!

I have never shot the Smithy so I wont knock it but I have seen plenty of reveiws from people that have shot and/or owned them and the reviews are pretty mixed.

I will stick to my "mom and pop"...

There are some folks out there (myself included) who will not buy S&W because they joined forces with the Clinton administration to limit gun rights.

Gravy,
S&W is a different company now and has new ownership. When it got into bed with the Clinton's it was owned by Tomkins PLC a British firm who made a play into trying to become the majority supplier of LEO's weapons. They're gone and they have a new managament team and are part of new holding company. So far they've done better but when things like the Sport show up it makes you think that some of the guys who got S&W into a crack are still in place.
You should be more PO'ed at Ruger. Bill is dead and his son has provided much better leadership than daddy. Bill tried to get into bed with the Clinton's and was a factor in the so called assault weapon ban. He was a force in the 10 mag limit and wanted every assault weapon banned except the Mini 14 with a 10 round mag which would have benefited him.

I like my Bushmaster. TONS of rounds thru it so far (I've had it for more years than I can remember), and I havent had to replace a part on it yet. When I first got it I replaced the stock firing pin with a titanium one, ( nothing wrong with the original, I fell for the rage at the time) other than that..it's all stock.

I did not know that. That could have changed my mind just like it did when I bought Ford over Chevy...

.....

Guys, I did not mean to sound like I was putting anyone's AR down by saying they were built by Mom & Pop. What I meant was that they were built by lesser known businesses. Not lesser quality or anything, just less known for gun building.

I like my S&W and I am proud to have an AR. It is the best I can afford. Heck, I had to sell two guns to be able to get the one I got. Maybe in a few months or years I will hae a different way of thinking, but as of right now, i like it.

I'm still not sold that these guns need dust covers. To me that is just theatrics. My Ruger 77 ain't got one nor does anything else I have, and I dang sure ain't gonna be sleeping in no dog-gone fox hole. Theatrics...

I was under the impression that S&W still does some funky retailer contracts that limit dealers right to sell product in a more restrictive way than current law. I hope that changed as well.

The dust covers serve a very important roll of keeping dirt and such out of the action when not in use. Try telling our men and women in the middle east right now that thier dust covers are not needed and watch them laugh at you. I doubt very many of them are sleeping in fox holes either but sand storms are a fairly common thing over there.

If your gun doesnt have a dust cover and you are OK with that then thats fine. But to label them "theatrics" shows a lack of understanding of the gun.

BOO

i couldn't take it anymore

I use the dust cover as much for mud and rain on the four wheeler as for dust. I wouldn't have one without it.

Forward assist is less useful than the dust cover IMO. I do run FTF drills and practice using the FA though, and anyone that has one should. If there's a semi-chambered round, it's a better first option than racking the slide and trying the next round, and a single FTF is a lot easier to clear than 2pers

You think we are immune from civil unrest or civil war???? History proves you WRONG!
You think we are immune from an attack from a foreign government??? History proves you WRONG once again!

I have said this more than enough but I will say it again so I don't come off as a complete Jerk, If it works for you that is all that matters.

But Don't walk in with a chip on your shoulder that your rifle is the end all, because for people whom use them for what there intended for it probably will not work, for somebody whom wants an AR-15 to plink with and have whom does not kick down doors, run competitions, it probably will work great.

Again not trying to be a jerk but you came across as a complete DN with your original post, you have to remember that a good half of Ar-15 owners may at some point may depend on that rifle to function 100% to save there life, there co-workers life, or a civillians life and failure is not an option for that use and no your rifle will not work for that role.



Again you probably will never use your AR-15 to the point you need one if your making statements like this. Your Ruger does not need a dust cover as its a bolt action meaning your manually forcing rounds into the Chamber weather its dirty or not, which does kind seem ironic since you claim AR's don't need a foward assist.

Very well put, and Thank You for the Compliment.

KD.
What Companies are you refering to by "Mom-Pop" ?


Because you mention lesser known brands, Do you Mean
Larue Tactical, Lewis Machine and Tool, Yankee Hill Machine, Bravo Company, Spikes, Noveske, LWRC, POF ??? Because to most these are lesser known Brand that build Top Tier Rifles.

Or are you refering to Somebody that Build stuff in there Garage ?

Because I will halfway agree with you on the Garage built guns, that depending on the persons experiance you may get a top tier build or a top tier nightmare, but thats where research comes into play ask about referances and previous build they have done.

Again I'm not trying to start a pissing match just curious as to why you made the comment.

Let me tell ya... it don't take much to understand what the dust cover is for. And you have no idea what I understand and what I don't understand. I understand that your comment was not worth the time it took you to type it out. I understand that we are not in the middle east and we are not in the military. Do you understand that? I don't give camel turds if you don't like the way I label your theatrical dust cover or not.

Know what else?.... nevermind.

One guy said the he uses his for mud and such, well I can see that. And honestly I didn't even think about mud, but I don't run my 4-wheeler thru mud puddles fast enough for mud to be splashed up on me or my guns.

K

Until I started looking at buying an AR I had never heard of any of the businesses you mentioned. But again... my point was that the companies building them are small(er) businesses in comparision to ... um... Savage, Ruger, Mossburg. I said nothing about their knowledge or product quality.

For someone that doesnt want to come off as someone with a chip on thier shoulder you sure did a poor job of trying to hide it.

Let me apologize to all of you. Apperently my starting comment sounded like I was dogging other AR's. Not the case and I'm sorry if I came across like that.

Before I bought this AR, I asked many people, on and off this forum. Everyone gave me their 1/2-cocked opinion. In the end, to me it came down as a Ford and Chevy thang. So that is how I made my decision.

I would like to see how this S&W would hold up in a competition. I want to see with my own eyes how the others are better. They prolly are better than my crappy-o Clintin-lovin' S&W.

At any rate, Once again I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intention.

Thats what I thought, Well the above are are to many Mom/Pop operations employing less than 50 people and all the above are considered THE TOP TIER Manufactures in the Buisiness.

Again you might not ever use your AR-15 enough to warrant establishing subtle differance between your AR-15 and the ones above, and Again that is fine you got exactly what works for you nothing more and you will probably be happy unill the day you die with your choice.

BUT there are many whom purchase these that use them for Competition, Work-Duty/Patrol, Defense and Failure is not an option so they choose the best money can buy, again that does not seem to be what motivated your purchase so it does not matter to you but it does to me as I am one of those people and to completely disregaurd why I choose to put a value on my life and the life of those around me when I chose a weapon is well kinda stupid, further more to dissmiss critical parts left off of your rifle that make them run in less than favorable condistions is not wise either.

Again now you know our point of view. There is nothing wrong with stepping up and saying hey guys I purchased this Smith and Wesson AR-15 and It runs great, its accurate (provide proof), ran great despite not having a foward assist and dust cover, it feeds this ___ and ____ Ammunition flawlessly and give a unbiased review is great and infact would be welcomed but thats not what you did so thats why your drawing the responeses you have.

I know how someone could make millions upon millions of dollars. IT is so easy... But then again it is just too hard for me.

If someone could invent a sarcastic font, they could make millions. Do ya'll know how many mom-&-pop AR's you can buy with millions and millions of dollars? I do ... a sh*t ton!!!

I am going to say one thing... It is stupid to say someone has a chip on their shoulder when you are the one doing the reading!!! It is your own voice you hear in your head and it is your own TONE of voice you hear. So maybe the person doing the reading has the chip on their shoulder.

If it sounds like I have a chip, well your right. I do NOW and your room tempreture IQ gave it to me.

I enjoyed this site for a lot of years and I thank ya'll for that, but until there is more realalistic people that understand we are not in Iraq hunting down the next Osama (or Usama, what-ever) I will refrain from using this site. Keep your little-man syndrome, I'm gonna take my chip and go home.

Ya'll have a good time, and stay safe.

Hey Psycho..I'll give ya a Dr. Pepper for some 'o that pop corn..

Hells Yeah I love some Good old 23 Refreshing Flavored Ice Cold Dr Pepper.

Well.......bye!

I guess since everyone didnt share the same views as you then we are somehow not good enough to be blessed by your presence. Stupid us!

Dr Pepper called and your check is in the mail.

You guys are a bunch of bullies.JK

SAWEET

heheheheheheh!!!

Hey hey hey.....no name calling please! Thank you!

This thread got real good, real fast. It went from "Hello, how are ya" to "shove it" in no time.

There are guns made for everyone and every budget. I like the S&W M&P AR's. I've shot a friends and it's had 1000's of rounds thru it and works great. When I was in the market for my M4 I looked at the S&W and the Colt. The Colt cost a little bit more and I could afford it so I figured why not buy what I considered to be a better gun and definitely a better name in the AR market.

If he is happy with his entry level AR then so be it, but I agree, the initial post was a feather ruffler to say the least. But you know that's part of the fun of the internet, getting to debate things and have a good old fashioned argument. God bless America.

And for all of you who mentioned using your AR's for defense, service, or Red Dawn attacks I think you left out the most likely use......

ZOMBIE ATTACK!!!! Be ready, they are coming. I've even practiced on some paper targets from zombietargets.com If you haven't bought any of those get some. You get some interesting looks when you post those at the range.

When it comes to guns unless they are just for play, I always try to buy the best I can afford and in most cases save up more money so I can buy something better than I can afford. Never be afraid to buy the best, you'll always be happier!

Oh, and if you do a search there was a great AR debate last year or a few months ago about the specs of some of the most popular AR's. I can't remember but I think psychosmurf posted some great data in that thread. May be wrong on who it was so forgive me if I am wrong on that. Either way, I remember it having a lot of good input from some of the more knowledgeable AR guys on the forum.

Mine did this .......



With the stated ammo only. Everything else tried so far is 1.5" to 2.25". My intent is NOT to glorify the S&W.
If there is an intent......It would be merely to glorify the AR. I have never owned an AR before this one. Wanted one for a while, but never jumped in till....these were on sale @ Cabelas. NO.....I will not be defending lives with it.
But, I will hunt with it and punch paper.
All I can really say is this, If an entry level AR can shoot this well........I can't wait to build me a GOOD one.
Concider me hooked.

Again I wasn't trying to say there a bad gun, for plinking and your average guy who might just do a little hog/varmint hunting there great. But For people whom need a AR for serious Reasons it would not be my first choice, and to berate someone for that line of thinking and then not being open as to why is what got the argument so heated.

Hey, I'm with ya 100% man.....
Guess I could have been a little more specific, my post was not intended for support of S&W AR, but for the AR platform in general, of which, I am now a fan.

Not a bad rifle but that doesnt mean there arent other options out there that are far superior !

Most of us will probably never need the dust cover and forward assist but IMO its a better safe than sorry type of thing. Like a couple others have mentioned if you do any training with the AR that forward assist is vital. Even if you never plan on using your carbine for self defence some training is extremely informative and will help you become way more familiar with your rifle and understand how things work and what might go wrong or fail. Most of all its FUN AS HELL !!

Have only shot 100rds thru my smith and its been good so far. Thanks to brandon its a little better with my new tomney trigger! Dont know how long i will own it but happy so far and if it lets me down i will find me something else.

WOW...that was fun reading but crazy. i havent been on here long but so far i have had nothing but useful info from some pretty nice people. To open up a conversation with an "attitude" is so uncalled for. I have a DPMS AR that i absolutely love and am in the process of building it up a little but to say its better than or worse than "company X's AR" is just not right. If it does the job you got it for then enjoy it. in the words of the Ticket...Stay Hard.....

THREAD ZOMBIE!!!

That mean the thread that wont die?

pretty much...

This was a funny/interesting read. Gotta have a pretty thick skin to survive these forums. Arrogance and ignorance will also get you nowhere.

I love my Daniel Defense M4. I do not know enough about other brands to speak negatively of them. Due to my lack of knowledge of the AR Weapon System, I purchased my rifle with the help of a very knowledgeable friend who showed me important things to look for when purchasing a rifle. I believe I ended up with a quality weapon that will suit my needs perfectly. Like everyone is saying, that is what it is all about.

Hi

I think the OP really did leave us. He hasnt posted since the day he got mad and left.

I would not own an ar without a dust cover. I didn't see the point of it until I owned one. My whole gun is literally covered in dust after a weekend at the lease riding around in the jeep, especially right now since it is so dry.

Office Space and a dead horse. I gotta file that picture away for future use. lol

As a side note, I did actually see where a forward assist would have been handy at a local 3-gun match this past month. We had a fellow who had a really nice AR(without one) and the round jammed for whatever reason. The extractor had ripped the side of the case off so you couldn't pull the round free nor could he get it to fully seat to fire it out. I don't know what they ended up doing with it but he didn't shoot the rifle portion of any stage after that.

I have a S&w M&P 15-22 and love it. Acttualy I have 2. Ton of fun and cheap to shoot.

Guys I'm out of goofy pictures to post let me see what I can find and get back to this thread.

If he ripped the side off the case, I don't think he would want to fire it... lol

I've seen plenty of rounds where the bolt would not fully seat and your only two options are to slingshot the bolt and risk and accidental discharge OR use a forward assist.

That would be greatly appreciated !!

My Ar15 is the best....LOL I have the S&W M&P15 and I really like so far and its fun as all get out to shoot. I'll be adding to it when I can afford too after paying for it. I bought it cause the reviews were not bad I went with it over the DPMS for no other reason that I liked it better thats all.

Holy old thread!!! Still funny though...

Nu uh my ar is the best !!

NU UH Mine is

now thats damn funny......how much would that rifle weigh?

Its made by the same company that manufactures the Ninja Glock and Ninja AK47 so even with all the Ninja/tactical Gadgets it weighs in at a mere 4.0lbs due to the construction of 100% Titanium and polymer. It also uses a custom 10000rd capacity magazine loaded with 197gr depleted uranium core ice bullets moly coated in death and extreme disfigurement.

Sadly though you have to show your Ninja ID on Ninja letterhead to puchase