Best home defense option......

What would you use for home defense.

12ga. w/18inch barrel
AR w/16 inch barrel
Various handguns 9mm and .45

I currently keep a 1911 in the bedstand, but want to consider all options.

Hard to beat a 12 ga for pure stopping power. Smaller shot to not penetrate walls and the psychological effect from working the action to chamber a round. Put a good light on it to identify target.

Shotgun is my go to choice...

Shotgun and make mine a pump. Sound of jacking a shell in chamber has sent more than one person running... If they do not leave from the sound, most mostlikely will not leave under their own power.

Mossberg 500 w/18" brl with #4s would probably be the best inside of a home.

My duck gun is currently loaded with Hornady TAP buckshot. I sure hope I remember to put the plug back in for duck hunting though.

D. All of the above.

Shotgun.. Ever seen one fired in the dark. Impressive.

Shotgun also gets my vote. I do not buy they idea of a 12 ga not penetrating walls. Even bird shot will easily penetrate multiple walls of sheetrock.

Can't beat the shotgun!!!

410

I disagree about racking-the-slide philosophy...the first (and last) sound a bad guy should hear is "boom" (maybe, just maybe, preceeded by the sound of the safety clicking off if he was paying attention).

16" BCM mid-length (w/ light and Aimpoint) is my go-to for home and things that go bump in the night.

I'd stick with the 45, it's easy to weild and makes enough noise that if you should miss with the first shot you'll have plenty of time for the second shot before they get through messin their pants.

If any one else lives in the house I'd use Glazier Safety Rounds.

I've always thought 223's are bad choices for home defense because if the highly likely possibly of over pentrating several walls, especially your neighbors. I live in a town home, btw, so it's very much a concern. As much as I truly believe in the racking-the-slide philosophy (great name, Budgeteer), I would overall prefer the mobility of a handgun.

An Ithaca model 37 with a tritium sight

Absolutely nothing better than a 12 ga. for home defense.....

With that being said.....I also keep a 1911 with extra mag handy.

Yep, Shotgun is by far the best if it is home defense you are wanting. Rounds are your choice but Hornady TAP is a very good choice.

Handguns should only be used to fight your way to your shotty or assault rifle. That's my way of thinking.

870 tactical

I have two flintlock pistols at my bedside...I wanna bust a Jim Bowie if anyone enters my room, minus getting bayonetted.

12 ga. Buckshot. Save the AR for when they are running down the street trying to get away (if they get away)

12ga with #6 will make um look like hamburger meat.

I watched an episode on this a few months ago. It was either 20 or 12 gauge bird shot they chose as best choice. Everything else penetrated multiple walls. I was kind of surprised but I remember the 9mm penetrating the walls better than .45 acp.

12 ga pump, 18" barrel, adjustable buttstock with pistol grip, attached flashlight with pressure strip, #4 buck, kept cruiser ready.

Shotgun, 18" bbl. Turkey loads.

870 tactical, ext tube, holds 8 1-1/8 #9 skeet loads.
I have kids in the house and this size shot has less tendency to over penatrate.

and if the perp lives I want the ER doc to say ewwwwwww.

I'm gonna have to load up with some of those hornady TAP 12ga rounds. Gonna move the shotty next to the bed I guess, sounds like the best choice.

I do worry about overpenetration. I might have to do a little testing with different shot and some sheetrock and see what I come up with.

What is the minimal size shot that would stop a man dead in his tracks?

At home defense distances I'd think it would be difficult
to find an over the counter shotshell that didn't stop a man in his tracks.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

For the record my choice is also shotgun, though one of our 20ga
would be 1st up.

That's what I'm getting at, .. let's consider the typical home invasion or robbery. Your distance to target will be 30 feet or less!!, So don't think shot size @ those ranges even with a cylinder choke your whole pattern might be 8" in dia. The shot "column" is what's doing all the work.
Try shooting some skeet loads @ verious targets less that 30' you will be impressed!!

** old Marine also taught me to cut standard bird shot loads in half right by the middle of the wad. Tape over the cut one time with tape, Skt, or more open cyl. only!!! it creates a plastic fagmenting slug as the front of the shell, and the shot fly to your target as one**

I've done it a lot out of my 870, and 835's use @ your own risk!!

I also handload flachettes, but a trooper buddy of mine advised me that might fall under some kind of intrapment or curel means and get me introuble.. so I just use them for hogs....

I wouldn't use anything modified for home defense because I don't want to give ammunition so to speak to the scumbags lawyers, or even the thought of it.

If you empty your gun using plain old birdshot, and claim he just kept coming and you feared for your life, I doubt there will be much left where those hot home defense loads would make that much of a difference.

it doesn't matter if you're shooting loads of rice at them...in home invasion distances with a 12 gauge, theyre gonna be in a whole new world of hurt regardless!

#4 turkey loads.


I"ve also been told you can handload dimes (thats right, dimes) into a 12 guage and they are pretty nasty

Even if for no other reason than the opportunity
for FAILURE I think it best to just stick
with factory loaded and unmodified ammo
in a home defense gun. This ain't Hollywood.

#4 turkey loads do sound good to me.

+1

This is what I do. I keep BB and slugs on the stock and sling, but after shooting a coyote with some double A's, I almost pity the fool that enters my home... almost... ewwwwwww is right.

-ww

+1

What do the police cops use?

They go house to house. Apartments. Highly populated areas. They can be sued out of existence for shooting innocent bystanders.

I've yet to meet an officer with birdshot in his patrol shotgun. I don't want gimmicks. I don't want to what if myself into getting a butcher knife shoved in my gut up to the hilt by some meth monster whose face looks "eewwwww" but whose vital organs are still intact.

If, God forbid, I ever get into a situation where I have to defend my family with deadly force, I want the deadliest mo fo'ing force I can put my hands on. If they sold depleted uranium highly radioactive super flesh eating condensed panther urine high explosive heat seeking hippie hair grease 12 ga C4 rounds, that's what my bedside shotty would be loaded with. Until that time, it'll be 00 buck...



Plus a .45 in a lockbox near the front door!

+1

all of them

Might be looking at it a little backwards. The cops would be in the same position as the intruders.

45 for me. When I get home, my EDC comes off the hip and onto the nightstand.

Did this years ago..

Buy some outdated ribs, maybe a roast ect..
Thaw & cut in to test chunks or sections, 6x6 ect try dif. loads on real meat. Some shot penetration will impress you.

Try @ various CQB distances, some ribs in front roast behind & v.v.
In my worthless opinion I'll take apx. 700 #9's in 1-1/8oz. load.

Have a family member that is a NARC in the DFW area & I hear all the horror stories about stopping a durgged up guy with everthing from 9mm MP5's to 12ga... He tells me @ 10ft (typical distance you might engage someone) shot size counts for "zero", it could be rock salt and would more than likely shread them to bits @ typical ranges...

With all the little ones in the casa, I don't like the thought of .32cal OObuck sailing through multiple rooms..

On dimes.. tried that once.. made two shot shells standard 8 crimp, I want to say 14 dimes per shell, standard wad ect..
it's neat but like it was said above "this an't Hollywood" It does make some "neat" sounds headed down range....

Thinking about it...that case of heavy dove loads in the garage is probably plenty of bang for HD scenarios.

Did a little research about birdshot for home defense. Don't you want to put the threat down, with no chance of him firing at you or do you just want to cause a shallow non mortal wound?? I know if he has a firearm, I want to put him down where he stands, i don't think I want to give him much of a chance to fire a single round. Buckshot balls don't really penetrate as much as one would thing, they are lead and they are light!!
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Have done the exact test before some different results... "they are lead and they are light" compaired to what metal??? bismuth?, Gold??
Also the show on the outdoor chan. did the same thing on The Best Defense with different results than the links above.

In a nutshell;

556 m855 ball -- all 4 walls penetrated. 24" flight devance from #1 to #4
556 55gr SP --- only three walls penetrated, flight devance from # 1 to #3 (bullet fragments)
and so on...
my 12a results were far different than his.. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm
lot of different data....

"cause a shallow non mortal wound" put a rack of dear ribs in an old sweat shirt in front of some bottle water.. shoot it a 5,10,15 ft
then tell me it won't kill someone..

Not saying I hate 00 buck and slugs AT ALL.. They're exactly what I keep in my 835 (3-1/2 000 buck..to be exact) :-) I keep one in the shop and the one in the truck. It's just inside the home I want as much shot control as possible.

I remember when I was younger shooting some 1/2" plywood with some, I think, #6 Heavy Dove Shot, the $5 a box stuff then, and it blasting holes in the plywood from 15 ft. Why wouldnt that work for home defense?

A veteran buddy of mine swears by #4 buck.

Given that penetration is the single most important variable, anything that won't go through a few bits of sheet rock is unlikely to reliably cause mortal wounds.

I think somebody needs to kill a few 200 lb hogs and do some testing for us with these loads:

-7 1/2 birdshot
-6 birdshot
-4 steel shot
-2 steel
-bb steel
-t steel

-buckshot

I cant kill hogs out here in this dry desert, so whose it gonna be?

Yes, they are lead and deform easily and slows penetration when deformed, A oo buck .33 cal weighs around 55 grains, which is light to me!! It's not like your throwing out nine or teen 200 grain solid copper or steel balls!!!
Another test
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

Whatever goes boom. I don't think a home invader is going to ask what your packing...or how many grains it is...when it's showtime.

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.

Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.

If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.

Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.

Shotgun with a flashlight!

i killed a coyote with #6 shot outta a 20 gauge while quail hunting.....he wasn't a happy camper.


at home defense ranges, i don't think it really matters what you hit them with as long as you hit them.

This has been a very informative thread. I have changed my thinking to consider )) Buck as the more optimal load. Up to this point I was a proponent of #4 buckshot.

Thanks THF!

I've shot quite a few pigs with #3 buck out of a 20 ga- every single one of them required a follow up shot, all were shot inside of 20 yards. If it didn't matter and bird shot were just as effective, the police would use it. SWAT teams that respond to overcrowded apartments would use it. They don't because it isn't. It will create a hellacious superficial wound, but that's it. If you are close enough that the shot hasn't seperated from the wad and strikes en masse, then no, it wouldn't matter- Are you willing to bet your life on a confrontation occurring at that distance?

12 ga. pump with bird shot......only way to go for inside the house defense.

I like to have options..... I like 12ga, and good old 00Buck works wonders.... There's usually a P228/P226 handy and an M4

anyone gets into my house, it dosen't matter how superficial the first couple wounds are, their getting one in the skull regardless

12 ga pump all the way.

I found some 2-3/4", and some 3" #2 lead shells awhile back.
And while i was standing there looking at them, i was thinking, what the heck would a person use those for?
And then the light came on. just the ticket.

#2 lead .15" in diameter. thats gonna leave a mark.

This might be the greatest line I have read in the THF!!

Main problem is the logistics - I don't think hippie hair grease is legal in Texas. It's too nasty.

AR-15 loaded with a good softpoint like Hornady TAP.

Contrary to gunshop commando belief the 5.56 does NOT penetrate walls nearly as bad as pistol rounds. Been proven by FBI testing, among many others. Powerful but not as overpenetrating as most think. Pistol hollowpoints plug up and keep going where the rifle rounds tumble and stop. Yes they'll go through a wall, but they generally won't go through six.

Having seen quite a few people shot with various pistol rounds as well as shotguns.......any shotgun load will overpenetrate even light ones, but I would only ever use 00 Buck or No.4 if 00 wasn't available.

A bird load "can" stop someone and if it's what you got, use it. But don't expect it to and make sure another round follows it.

A 5.56 load properly aimed will generally do the trick. 2 or 3 is even better. I keep a .45 by the bed, but for serious defense, get a rifle. A shotgun is nothing bad, and if you've got 20-30 years of bird hunting, stick with what you know....shotguns.

In my case, I don't, I spent 3 years kicking down doors and searching for bad guys with an M4 and a fireteam. So i stick with what "I" know.

Thats works for you but your kinda talking about 2 different things,apples and oranges . When the backyard comandos talk about the bullet from a ar-15 going through 6 walls its FMJ's that they are talking about. And what if the ar-15 is not properly aimed with the soft point ammo and you miss your target at 3am. It will travel through more walls than bird shot will since it does not hit a soft body mass the projctile will not expand and slow down much. With your military experience you have the perfect weapon for yourself but without that experience the bird shot gives a little more lee way. A FMJ fired from a ar-15 will travel through objects further than a FMJ fired from a pistol, 10 times out of 10. A Soft point fired from a ar-15 will travel a shorter distance through a soft body mass then a FMJ will fired from a pistol. Not trying to argue but dont want all the backyard comandos thinking their FMJs are good to use for home defense. A softpoint,hollowpoint will always be better to stop a person fired from a rifle compared to a pistol.More energy on impact,IF, you hit your target. If you miss, beware....
any shotgun load will overpenetrate even light ones, but I would only ever use 00 Buck or No.4 if 00 wasn't available.

A bird load "can" stop someone and if it's what you got, use it. But don't expect it to and make sure another round follows it.you say any load from a shot gun will over penetrate, meaning it will blow a hole in them the size of a mans fist, straight through. But it wont do a good job of stopping them and will need follow ups???

Hello all, new to the forum. I've been on the fishing forum for a long time, but new here.

Something else to consider that I have not see anyone bring up...
IMO, a gun that you can put your hands on quickly is the best. You can then begin improving your position and armament as the situation dictates. A loaded shotgun stowed by the bed is great if you are inclined to take on that liability- another subject. For me, I don't. Even if I didn't have kids I probably wouldn't. Again, another subject. There is no good way to "secure" a long gun where it is readily accessible to meet an immediate threat and it is safe from unintended users. And no, I'd prefer not to have to alert my presence and readiness level to an intruder by racking a round in a shotgun. Remember that YOU have the advantage in your own home, even in complete darkness. My preferred strategy at the moment is a gunvault by the bed that secures a pistol (locked and loaded, on safe). I can get to this weapon and fire it in less than 5 seconds, but nobody else (but my wife) can employ that weapon, especially against me.

On the subject of the shotgun vs pistol, I'm not the expert, but do have some training and experience. I like the idea of a shotgun as PART of my strategy, but would like all you shotgun guys to actually conduct a rehearsal of your own, in your house, at night, with a flashlight, in your underwear, etc. I did, and what I found is different than what I thought when I started trying to move around corners and through doorways. Remember you are by yourself, too, and almost wherever you shoot, there is a kid's bedroom only a wall away. Some may ask why you would go room to room looking for the bad guy and not set up in a choke point and wait for him to walk into your wall of lead? What about your kids on the other side of the house?, which is what makes the scenario so difficult to begin with.
Not everyone's situation is the same, so a do it all home defense gun does not exist. You really need to do rehearsals and closely examine your own variables to figure out what will work the best for you. Instead of arguing about pellet size, I prefer to spend my time on the strategy first, then worry about the type of weapon that best fits the strategy.

My pick- hi capacity handgun loaded w/ glaser or magsafe prefragmented bullets, secured in a gunvault below my side of the bed. An identical setup on my wife's side with "her" gun. Shotgun is unloaded in the closet with shells hidden in a separate secret place. In the event, I go to the threat, wife goes to a phone with her gun, then to the shotgun and begins loading.

I hope to God this scenario never plays out. And for those advocating the "double tap" philosophy previously, killing a man with a final shot to the head would not be as glorious as you may think. In fact I'd venture to say that would screw you up mentally for the rest of your life, not to mention other more worldly problems. Neutralizing the threat is enough for me. Hopefully, that does not mean someone loses their life, but I would not hesitate, ever.