The rattler pic by TBar interested me. I once was butt deep in snakes, mostly rattlers. I had a coffee can full of rattles. Then the pigs moved in and I have NO snakes. Several years back, I saw a rattler on a dirt road. I stopped, got out, and looked at it. Didn’t molest it.

We have plenty of snakes, but I don't go looking for them so I rarely see them. I've seen a few rattlers the last couple years including one that was 6ft long, but mostly copperheads on the caliche driving back from hog hunting in the early morning hours.

I had so many rattlesnakes I gassed them and would get a few thousand every year. I’m covered up with hogs now and haven’t seen a rattlesnake in 4 years. .

We've noticed the same over the past couple years at my buddies place south of Baird. About 4 years ago we killed over 20 just around the house and we weren't even looking for them. I don't really like killing them but if they're around the house they gotta go. Now they're non existent. This could be an interesting discussion. What would y'all rather have? Covered up in rattlers with no hogs or no rattlers with a bunch of hogs?

Here in east Texas the house is 100 yards from the pond, we have several other small pools around the place and woods.....I hardly ever see a snake. I mean its extremely rare.... but I have plenty of hogs.

In Navarro County, we don't have much in the way of Rattlers. I know there are a few Timber Rattlers, but we almost never see them. Copperheads are a different story. Those have been extremely common through the years...but even then, I have not seen a single copperhead in over two years. It seems sightings of King Snakes and Rat Snakes has been on the decline too. The snake most often seen now is a common water snake. I'd love to blame it on pigs, cause that would give me just another reason to kill every one I see. But, I haven't seen a rise in pig population to coincide with a decline in snakes. I've actually seen a decline in the pigs over the last few year. I'd like to think that I have had a hand in that decline.

It’s not a mystery here. This was one of the most snake infested areas I’ve ever seen, hogs showed up and the rattlesnakes began their decline in numbers. I still have water snakes and snakes that spend a lot of time in trees but the ground dwindling snakes are almost completely gone. I like the hogs and I’m not a fan of being bit by rattlesnakes so I think it’s a good trade for me.

I hate snakes.

I love snakes, hate spiders.

Kid's & I were running around Sat night rabbit hunting and I let a rattlesnake go, but only because it was a skinny snake and not worth eating. If that snake would have been fat, my little girl would have shot it and fried it up. Was fun anyway, my baby girl got to see her first live rattle snake and her first horny toad.

I was raised outside of Muleshoe and the horny toads we’re everywhere. Are they still in that country?

Prefer hogs

Family has a Cabin at the Tulsa Ozark Club (NorthEastern Oklahoma....near Grand Lake).

I can remember when we were kids the caretaker of the property would release domestic hogs to roam freely whenever the snakes (mostly Copperheads) got too populous. It seemed to work....though I never really knew why.

I don't know if the hogs 'ate' the snakes but apparently the idea was that they would kill the snakes when they encountered one.

Anyone have anything other than anecdotal evidence for that theory?

Not evidence but; I used to be butt deep in snakes of all kinds. Then the hogs moved in. I’ve now seen one rattler in the last ten years. No others.

Very interesting thread!! Following

Got horned toads in Fisher County. This little fella was thrilled to hold one last spring at a Rolling Plains Quail Research Foundation field day near Roby. (Good outfit worth supporting by the way.)

I'm happy to have non-venomous snakes hanging around. They're good workers. I can't express how much I loathe spiders though. My agreement with them is as long as they're outside the house I'll leave them alone unless I walk into their web. But if I catch them in the house it's game on. Can't stand the creepy things. I have a coworker who finds spiders at the office and will pick them up and release them outside. Uh no.

I had an uncle who would gently detain and release black widows. But he was haunted by what he had done to life as the pilot of a B-24 that flew its full complement of combat missions in the Pacific Theater, and all life became precious to him.

No pigs on our place, but I killed one last weekend that rattled at me when I was still 25-30’ away from it. Pretty considerate of him

I am still infested in Callahan County. Old houses and barns keep the mice plentiful and the snakes well fed. I kill every rattler I see (10+ a year) but let the rat snakes and a few others pass.

Had a 20 incher do that to me from across the shop some years back. I got over to him and he was in that half-coiled/half-standing strike pose and was ready to spring. This was in November and it was 40 degrees there inside the shop. Actually caught me by surprise.

Then he took a face full of rat shot and suddenly learned some manners.

Just yesterday I asked the wife if she had seen snakes of any type this year. She had not and neither have I. Used to have a good number of Copperheads, but apparently not now. We have a few hogs around, but not many, so I don’t think the hogs factor in to a decline in snake numbers.

The neighbor has chickens, and he has seen a few rat snakes.

We don't have too many rattlers in the areas of Montague County that I hunt, but I have come across 2 over the years. What we do have is bunches of copperheads. They are the most common snake I see and I will commonly see 2 or 3 every night on the gravel and dirt roads during warmer weather. If the hogs are eating the snakes, they have missed the copperheads where I am.



Cause and effect are sometimes hard to determine. A buddy of mine bought some acreage down near Hearne. It was overgrown and had a lot of snakes. So he got some goats and the snakes disappeared. Some people might think the goats ate the snakes, but generally speaking goats don't eat snakes. What happened was that the goats ate the snakes' cover. With the loss of habitat, the snakes moved elsewhere.

Of course, hogs aren't eating all the cover for the snakes. Plus, hogs will eat snakes and a lot of other stuff, but whether or not hogs would clear snakes from a given area is interesting to consider. I would think there would be other factors also involved to expedite the process, though hogs may be the most readily visible part of said process.



I don't know if they are or are not, but horny toads were put on the threatened and endangered list for Texas in 1977, well before the hog menace. The reasons why were because of pesticides, fire ants, and habitat loss. If hogs played a part in horny toads going away, then hogs were likely a proverbial final straw on the weakened population.

I’ve hunted northwest Texas for the last twenty years….. no decline in rattlesnakes or hogs…. I have observed lots of both species…. never seen any evidence of hogs killing rattlesnakes….post it up or I call it

I’ve been wondering what has happened to the snakes in East Texas. 25 years ago I couldn’t drive down the country roads without stopping to catch a snake. There were always snakes on the road. I very seldom see one on the road anymore. I don’t know it this is reflective of the number of snakes, but I’ve definitely noticed a difference.

I`ve walked upon 6 rattlers in all my years of hunting. Killed all of them. None of them have been small snakes, but this one is the biggest (2020). This one let me get within 4' before rattling and then coming out of the thick grass and going away from me. I was relocating a game camera and would have stepped on him for sure. I don`t know if our pigs help keep them in check, but I`m ok with that if they do. I never do any walking around on our lease without snake chaps when it`s warm and I will not walk on a trail that hasn`t been mowed short during bow season. I`m pretty sure we have a den in an old cellar from an 1800`s homestead that is caved in, but I never get around the area unless it`s really cold and after deer season. I give them the road the rest of the time.

We relocate prairie rattlers all season, should start soon up here. No need to kill them all, we need some rats and mice taken care of.

For giggles, I thought I would look at the human population in the region and found a map of the whole state. Pretty much all of east Texas has stayed stable or lost population and some areas have a goodly amount of loss. I was thinking an increase in human traffic, errr vehicular traffic associated with more humans, more roads, etc. might be taking a toll on the snakes and while they do get roadkilled, that doesn't appear to be the issue at all.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...Date=2022-01-01&startDate=1999-01-01

So I did some more digging with your time frame in mind. Apparently, the Timber Rattlers were already in decline 25 years ago and researchers were trying to figure out why and there are several suggestions, but this isn't only about Timber Rattlers, but snakes in general. Then I found this that is really interesting. Snake fungal disease (SFD). This news article calls it both a fungus and a virus. It was discovered in Timber Rattlers in 2006.
https://www.cbs19.tv/article/tech/s...501-6be783e5-837c-473d-9565-a07f504ffc1c

This info is from the big heads in DC talking about SFD. Apparently, it is considered an emerging pathogen across the US that was first discovered in the US in the 1980s (in Illinois).
https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/snake-fungal-disease

A 3 year study ending in 2021 study found it present in over 15% (27 of 176) of the snakes examined from east Texas, but somehow researchers decided 1:10 has the pathogen.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/ffunb.2023.1064939/full

The disease itself isn't consider very fatal, but in reading various literature, it sounds like it works as another stress factor, weakening the snake's health such that they end up dying from something else more readily. So it would appear to be a comorbidity factor.

Also interesting is that it is thought to be much more widespread than it is, but not a lot of people are looking into it, or not doing geographical wide scale testing. It sounds like most of the studies that find it are studies being conducted after there is a known problem, but first the problem has to be known. Lots of animal deaths go unobserved. It is seems like only when the population noticeably changes that they will look for the cause.

Yep. This was a dangerous place because of the rattlesnakes. The rattlesnakes for hogs trade was a good one for my ranch.

I haven't noticed any decline of snakes in my area of East Texas (Deep East Texas) but I represent a small sample.

In my area only the Timber Rattler and Pygmy Rattler exist. Neither in great numbers and VERY much localized in certain areas/habitats.

Copperheads are everywhere and the most common venomous snake by far. Cottonmouth next in line (with good habitat).

All of the common non-venomous snakes seem to have steady populations in the 40 years I've been here.

Feral hog populations have exploded over the years.....but I can't tell that they have any effect on the snake population (on my property). Other wildlife.....YES, but not snakes.

It’s not a new concept. In the 1930’s, feral hogs were put on Santa Catalina Island to help control the island’s rattlesnake populations.

Well, they did bring in pigs to help the Catalina Island rattlesnake issue (and/or for sport hunting). They also brought in goats and bison for various reasons that were also a threat to the snakes.

The experiment was a failure. After about 60 years and various studies conducted, efforts reversed to get rid of the hogs and starting in 1990. Goats and bison were apparently shortlisted as well. In the end, the rattlesnakes remained, but the pigs, goats, and bison were now the ones humans wanted off the island.
https://www.islapedia.com/index.php?title=Pigs:_Santa_Catalina_Island

The above reference also has a news clip from the 1891 Avalon (town on the island) newspaper talking about the hogs and other livestock breaking through the fence that protected the town from pasturage of the animals (sort of sounds like Jamestown building a stockade and New York building a wall, to keep out feral hogs).

One of the really interesting aspects of this experiment is that contrary to mainland lore of rattlesnakes not rattling out of fear of being eaten by a pig that hears it, the island rattlesnakes rattled more, louder, are more prone to striking and tend to inject more venom. This response isn't just to the pigs, but also to the other threats like deer, goats, bison, etc. The rattlesnakes turned on the aggression and have survived just fine. https://phys.org/news/2024-04-rattlesnakes-california-santa-catalina-island.html

This article mentions hogs on the island from at least the 1800s and possibly as early as the 1500s.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1381283

The only reason the predation has not been quantified yet is because neither are in short supply state wide. I do know that this was a place inundated with rattlesnakes and now they are few and far between. Due to the nature of where I’m at and the protection from any development, the only thing that has changed is an endless supply of feral hogs. They certainly don’t care about getting bit by one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ccOC7mN8Sw&pp=ygUVaG9nIGVhdHMgcmF0dGxlc25ha2Ug[/video]

I don't know. We have rattlesnakes and plenty of pigs. Just killed a copperhead tonight in camp in Montague. If I don't go looking for them, I normally don't see them. We have guy that hunts them too and will catch 50+ a year.

Duck man, that’s hard to understand. Neither I or my neighbors South of Bowie have seen a snake of any kind in years.

My lease is south of Brackettville. We are high fenced and I have not seen a hog in person or on camera last season. But I have seen 2 snakes. One out in the field I saw crossing a road last March and this one at my camp area. He was 4 feet from the container door where I store the jeep. I had my snake boots on and walked up on him. It made my heart pound really fast.

That is odd. Here is a pic I took on March 31. This is my first copperhead of the year. It was on FM 677 between Forestburg and St Jo.

My old lease we were covered in hogs and snakes.

^^^^

And a 'Broadband' at that. We have few where I live.....but mostly the 'Southern'.



Beautiful coloring on yours.


The most recent 'Southern' on my place was exceptionally drab colored. Most are very Tan and Copper colored.

Well, that is interesting. Most of the ones I see up here would be broadbands. I have never seen the drab version that I can recall.

I have killed and disposed i or 2 each year over the last 12 years. Last years I found out how easy it was to preserve the skin and I now have a new purpose and look forward to seeing them as often as possible. Belts and hat bands.

I killed my first copperhead last night. Wife saw it while we were lettings dogs piss before bed. This will be our 4th spring where were at now, between Terrell/Kaufman...I killed 26 copperheads each of the first two years, but noticed the age structure dropped in year 2. last year I killed 13 and again age dropped. Last night's snake was a small one. We have far too many woods around us, and our landscaping is a snake's paradise. We will never get rid of them but I'm hoping to have the kills down to 5-10 a year
1 dog bitten in 3 years, been lucky

I relocate rattle snakes in 2-3 pieces, there are other snakes to handle rodents. Have 3 friends that were bitten by buzz snakes and it isn't a fun ordeal and one nearly lost some fingers.

Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind

That's a "red and yellow, kill a fellow"

Oh boy, that's not a good sight!

I've only seen one Coral Snake in my time in East Texas (also in Nac County).

Plenty of them in Central Texas where I grew up. Pretty snakes.

Grew up in east Texas and lived in Nac for about five years, and have never seen one in the wild.

I’ve never seen one in the wild either but would like to. Beautiful snakes.

I love copperheads. They are beautiful snakes. Always gets a pass if I see one.

For giggles, I thought I would look at the human population in the region and found a map of the whole state. Pretty much all of east Texas has stayed stable or lost population and some areas have a goodly amount of loss. I was thinking an increase in human traffic, errr vehicular traffic associated with more humans, more roads, etc. might be taking a toll on the snakes and while they do get roadkilled, that doesn't appear to be the issue at all.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...Date=2022-01-01&startDate=1999-01-01

So I did some more digging with your time frame in mind. Apparently, the Timber Rattlers were already in decline 25 years ago and researchers were trying to figure out why and there are several suggestions, but this isn't only about Timber Rattlers, but snakes in general. Then I found this that is really interesting. Snake fungal disease (SFD). This news article calls it both a fungus and a virus. It was discovered in Timber Rattlers in 2006.
https://www.cbs19.tv/article/tech/s...501-6be783e5-837c-473d-9565-a07f504ffc1c

This info is from the big heads in DC talking about SFD. Apparently, it is considered an emerging pathogen across the US that was first discovered in the US in the 1980s (in Illinois).
https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/snake-fungal-disease

A 3 year study ending in 2021 study found it present in over 15% (27 of 176) of the snakes examined from east Texas, but somehow researchers decided 1:10 has the pathogen.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/ffunb.2023.1064939/full

The disease itself isn't consider very fatal, but in reading various literature, it sounds like it works as another stress factor, weakening the snake's health such that they end up dying from something else more readily. So it would appear to be a comorbidity factor.

Also interesting is that it is thought to be much more widespread than it is, but not a lot of people are looking into it, or not doing geographical wide scale testing. It sounds like most of the studies that find it are studies being conducted after there is a known problem, but first the problem has to be known. Lots of animal deaths go unobserved. It is seems like only when the population noticeably changes that they will look for the cause.

Interesting! Thanks for looking into it.

Have lots of them down here brother.

I attribute the snake decline, in most cases, on pigs. But, the 4 year drought really hit all wildlife and it is still having an effect on all wildlife numbers around my area. This includes everything but pigs.

I no longer see snakes, squirrels, possums or coons. Turkeys are rare and used to be plentiful. Rarely hear coyotes howling unless we are dressing out a deer. No terrapins and very few pond turtles.

Deer appear to be rebounding and if I get Fall rains, I’ll plant about 5 acres of wheat.

I see no shortage of seasonal migrating birds or pigs.

About 5 miles South of Bowie.

Turkey decline I think can be blamed on hogs,they nest on creek and river bottoms and that's where the hog live and will eat any eggs they come across

Can they? What about where turkeys are on the decline in states with no hogs?
https://www.iowadnr.gov/About-DNR/D...ight-into-wild-turkey-population-decline
https://kansasreflector.com/2023/12...ecline-in-states-wild-turkey-population/
https://www.siouxfallslive.com/news...-wild-turkey-populations-in-south-dakota

Hogs are going to be part of the problem in areas where hogs are, no doubt, but they are far from being the cause. Hunting turkeys doesn't increase the population. Loss of habitat, particularly as large parcels of land are divided up and sold into smaller and small pieces. Toxicants are an issue. Droughts are doing a number on them as well. This is all in addition to ongoing predation by coyotes, foxes, bobcats, opossums, raccoons, snakes, eagles, owls, etc. (eggs, poults, and/or adults). You can add in domestic/feral cats and dogs.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/free-ranging-and-feral-cats.pdf

With all that said, your turkeys nesting in the bottoms where the hogs are are going to be, in part, due to loss of habitat. The bottoms are a refuge for turkeys that humans find harder to exploit for farming and development. So if the turkeys are numbers are going down because of hogs in the bottons, then then that concentration of turkeys isn't the fault of the hogs, right? Turkeys already live in the bottoms, but the live in the upland forests and prairies as well.

While hogs sometimes do live in the bottoms, they live just about everywhere and travel through and exploit pretty much all the environments from beaches to mountains.