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Who at fault #8936732 10/16/23 07:42 PM
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Car hits a black cow middle of the night? Who at fault? Driver or rancher?

New scenario: Same farmer as above has 6 cows hit by cars over a 9 month period. Now who’s at fault?

A few of the wrecks resulted in people being Care Flighted away to Dallas. This is a road with a speed limit of 70mph. Most people in that area know who the owner is, it’s become quite an issue.


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936737 10/16/23 07:51 PM
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Fm Road or highway?

Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936738 10/16/23 07:51 PM
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Cow's fault.


Originally Posted by unclebubba
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.

Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936741 10/16/23 07:52 PM
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I believe it's the rancher's responsibility to keep his cows inside his fence. I would think the rancher is at fault.


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936744 10/16/23 07:54 PM
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It depends if the county has a stock law or not.

Re: Who at fault [Re: Buzzsaw] #8936745 10/16/23 07:55 PM
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100% depends on the county in TX. Still open range/fence out counties in Texas. If it falls in that realm of counties, you will be replacing the cattle and any other damages.



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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936748 10/16/23 07:58 PM
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What if it was a white cow? peep


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936751 10/16/23 08:00 PM
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my father-in-law‘s neighbor hit a cow on an FM Road in Collin county and the lady was just distraught that the farmer did not have to pay for her car so she kept harassing him until he sued her for the replacement cost of the cow and she shut up and he dropped it

Re: Who at fault [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8936753 10/16/23 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
100% depends on the county in TX. Still open range/fence out counties in Texas. If it falls in that realm of counties, you will be replacing the cattle and any other damages.




This


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936758 10/16/23 08:11 PM
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To be determined
Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936760 10/16/23 08:13 PM
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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936769 10/16/23 08:19 PM
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As you can see, most of the state is "fence out". unless on an interstate highway, hit a cow, owe for the cow. The guy cited by BP may well be a douche.

Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936773 10/16/23 08:21 PM
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Guy in a little Bronco II hit one of ours on an FM road around 1987. Flattened the nose to the firewall. He sued and our umbrella insurance told him to pound sand, that he couldn't prove we were negligent as the gate was not open. No others were out, no history, no other accidents. He eventually dropped it.

36 years later, given our litigiousness these days, I wouldn't want it to see a courtroom. Guy that's had that many hit in such a short time is running short on 'I'm not negligent'. If I was on a jury I might want to send him a message, law allowing.

From the above link, the last three are going to put that dude in a bind no matter what his local law is:

Have I met the standard outlined in the local stock law?
In a county with a stock law, a livestock owner may not permit his or
her animals to run at large. If a third party is injured, a livestock owner
is liable only if he or she permitted the livestock to run free. Texas
courts have interpreted “permit” to mean to expressly or “formally
consent” or to “give leave,” and that merely making it possible for an
animal to run at large is insufficient to impose liability on a livestock
owner. Permit does not refer to the “temporary escape” of animals.
Rather, “it refers to animals allowed as a matter of course to graze
and move about freely in an unconfined area.”9 In determining
an owner’s liability for livestock roaming at large, courts look to
the owner’s actions because an animal in the roadway does not
automatically constitute a violation of a stock law.

Some examples of livestock owner actions that might result in liability
include:
leaving a gate open,
authorizing a lessee to allow cattle to run at large,
having notice that the livestock were out in the roadway and failing to remove the livestock,
having knowledge that livestock previously escaped from the property, or
failing to maintain the fences surrounding the pasture


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Re: Who at fault [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #8936780 10/16/23 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Guy in a little Bronco II hit one of ours on an FM road around 1987. Flattened the nose to the firewall. He sued and our umbrella insurance told him to pound sand, that he couldn't prove we were negligent as the gate was not open. No others were out, no history, no other accidents. He eventually dropped it.

36 years later, given our litigiousness these days, I wouldn't want it to see a courtroom. Guy that's had that many hit in such a short time is running short on 'I'm not negligent'. If I was on a jury I might want to send him a message, law allowing.

From the above link, the last three are going to put that dude in a bind no matter what his local law is:

Have I met the standard outlined in the local stock law?
In a county with a stock law, a livestock owner may not permit his or
her animals to run at large. If a third party is injured, a livestock owner
is liable only if he or she permitted the livestock to run free. Texas
courts have interpreted “permit” to mean to expressly or “formally
consent” or to “give leave,” and that merely making it possible for an
animal to run at large is insufficient to impose liability on a livestock
owner. Permit does not refer to the “temporary escape” of animals.
Rather, “it refers to animals allowed as a matter of course to graze
and move about freely in an unconfined area.”9 In determining
an owner’s liability for livestock roaming at large, courts look to
the owner’s actions because an animal in the roadway does not
automatically constitute a violation of a stock law.

Some examples of livestock owner actions that might result in liability
include:
leaving a gate open,
authorizing a lessee to allow cattle to run at large,
having notice that the livestock were out in the roadway and failing to remove the livestock,
having knowledge that livestock previously escaped from the property, or
failing to maintain the fences surrounding the pasture



The bold us also assuming its not an open range FM road. As there are lots of FM roads with no fences that cut through ranches.

And the general public are clueless to Open range road signs.


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8936789 10/16/23 08:39 PM
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Curious which type of road and what the county law states.

This is a real issue but we live in a state that made its name early on by cattle ranching…

Re: Who at fault [Re: Texas buckeye] #8936807 10/16/23 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Curious which type of road and what the county law states.

This is a real issue but we live in a state that made its name early on by cattle ranching…


errr . . . any type of road other than interstate highway

Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8937004 10/17/23 12:15 AM
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Rancher is responsible.

Re: Who at fault [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8937052 10/17/23 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ducknbass
Fm Road or highway?


Highway

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
100% depends on the county in TX. Still open range/fence out counties in Texas. If it falls in that realm of counties, you will be replacing the cattle and any other damages.



Kaufman Co


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8937057 10/17/23 01:16 AM
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BP, what does the law say?


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8937084 10/17/23 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
100% depends on the county in TX. Still open range/fence out counties in Texas. If it falls in that realm of counties, you will be replacing the cattle and any other damages.


All US and state hwy in Texas are "closed range" per Texas Ag code, been a while and I don't recall the specific chapter.

FM roads flow with the open/closed

A habitual offender knowing allowing stock to roam is easier to charge/sue since there is a pattern of abuse. They must be aware of it and be neglectful. If that makes sense. to "permit" is important. Its in the Texas ag code

Its a complicated law imo as the bar changes between Road types. "permit" or "knowingly permit" depending on State/ US vs fm roads. Some case law iirc, Texas S court has used both requirements in some cases


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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8937124 10/17/23 02:01 AM
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I’ve always heard there is some old school protection on farm to market roads


I blame the rancher

Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8937179 10/17/23 03:16 AM
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Highway is a generic term.

Was this a 4 lane FM road or an interstate freeway or what?

Heck i would call a lot of streets around dfw area highways, some city streets are 8 lanes.

Re: Who at fault [Re: Texas buckeye] #8937203 10/17/23 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Highway is a generic term.

Was this a 4 lane FM road or an interstate freeway or what?

Heck i would call a lot of streets around dfw area highways, some city streets are 8 lanes.


It’s a 4 lane hwy, known as Hwy 80.

Last edited by BigPig; 10/17/23 04:38 AM.

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Re: Who at fault [Re: BigPig] #8937205 10/17/23 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BigPig
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Highway is a generic term.

Was this a 4 lane FM road or an interstate freeway or what?

Heck i would call a lot of streets around dfw area highways, some city streets are 8 lanes.


It’s a 4 lane hwy, known as Hwy 80.

Hwy 80? With repeated escaping cattle? Rancher's fault. Care to let us know which part? I'll be extra mindful when I'm on my way to visit my dad.


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current federal policy is clearly irrational, scientifically insupportable and ridiculous.
Re: Who at fault [Re: Grit] #8937206 10/17/23 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Grit
BP, what does the law say?


Beats me. If we have a cow where I work hit by a car, then her two legged [censored] should’ve been more careful crossing the road


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