Agree with one statement above, the shooter is the biggest part of the equation of accuracy with an AR handgun. An AR carefully assembled by someone that knows truly how using good components can be amazingly accurate when driven by someone that can truly drive it.

For the 300BO being enough gun to hunt with at 100 yards even from a short barrel, I guess it has plenty of energy and bullet to get the job done. Lesser rounds have worked well for me 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 25-20, 256 Win Mag, 30 carbine all come to mind.

As far as using velocity and energy I think Momentum has to be considered as well. 357 Sig, 357 Mag, 44 Spcl and 45ACP have worked well as have larger more powerful handguns when hunting. Speed gets squared in the energy calculations and makes a big difference. For instance a 22-250 can have more energy than BP equivalent loads for the 45-70 but if having to stop a bear with one of those give me the 45-70 any day of the week.

I didn't watch the whole video, but I'm assuming we're talking about subsonic ammo? In that case, charles' post is fairly valid as supported by the poster's photo of 388 ft/lbs at 100 yards. I certainly wouldn't shoot anything I wanted to recover with that.

To be fair, I am certain that a rabbit could be humanely harvested with it at 100 yards.

If I were to shoot game with a subsonic round, I would choose an expanding projectile. I have spoken to David, the owner of LeHigh, many times about the effectiveness of expanding subsonic projectiles. The 194 grain bullet used in this video would be one of the bullets I would consider shooting. But they are not cheap to shoot, as I like to shoot a lot of what I load. The expansion of these bullets is very impressive at sub sonic speeds. That's the main issue with shooting a traditional lead bullet at subs speeds, is the lack of expansion. If you plan to shoot subs for hunting, I think this is one of the best bullets to shoot. But it's not for me.

The original application theory for subsonic projectiles was to go with a larger caliber. The larger and heavier the bullet, it was reasoned, the better it would carry over a distance, and the better effect there would be on the target when it got there.

.458 caliber and .50 caliber bullets were loaded into smaller, shorter than usual cases that would efficiently and fairly quietly launch long, heavy for caliber bullets that were not expected to expand at all. - Just punch a big hole fairly deeply with their inertia.

Long, heavy home-brew bullets turned from bronze were popular in the early "whisper" cartridges.

300 Blackout was and is a bastardization of the original concept - developed for the AR15 platform. Something to "play sniper" with, for the unwashed masses.
To fit the original concept, the 300 Blackout would be chambered in a single-shot or bolt gun with a long throat, and loaded with 30 caliber bullets of 180 grains weight or better. - Not the lightest bullets that one can find for 30 caliber, so that it will fit into an AR15.

The proper AR platform for the 300 Blackout would be the AR10, which would allow the use of the heaviest bullets made in 30 caliber. Even so, the largest caliber that would fit the AR10 action with its heaviest bullets would be better. - .338 or .358 caliber perhaps?

With the heavier bullets at subsonic speed the energy level goes up, penetration is better, the rainbow-like trajectory will stretch out a bit farther and still be a good killer.

At no point were the blackout or whisper rounds ever intended to be used for hunting game. They are sniper rounds only.

"Play sniper" AR15 owners load them up with the lightest 30 caliber bullets so they will fit the AR15 action, and tell themselves that it is "just as good as a 30-30" when it obviously is not.

Yeah this is false. The original intent was to replace the mp 5 as really short 223 are not the greatest. It was never designed to "play sniper"

Same Lehigh Defense 194 gr. Maximum Expansion at 400 Yards.

For the naysayers...just watch the video. Would I take a shot at a live animal at this range? NO.

18 feet of drop. NO.

However, if this bullet will EXPAND at 400 yards starting out at a SUBSONIC Velocity.. let your EYES be the judge

POPCORN....NEXT..LOL

... who would "play sniper" with a bullet running 1000FPS?

I got some 208GR Subs that fit in the AR15 no problem, not sure what you're talking about that only the lightest of 30cal bullets will fit in the AR15 platform.

Also the AR10/SR25 is an 308 platform. Why would you shoot 300BLK from a 308 chamber when you'd just shoot 308 subs out of it?

Please don't try to hurt your brain talking about the AR platform. You've proven time and time again that you know absolutely nothing about it. Fact from another thread you posted "Your only experience with the AR platform was a DPMS you owned for a couple of months" yet you bash the AR platform any chance you get even though your only experience with the platform was the bottom of the barrel and one of the cheapest AR's made.



This is correct.

"..."play sniper" with, for the unwashed masses."

Geeez

P_102

Exactly, and with a 1000 fps bullet.

Charles, ive given you the benefit of doubt, but with every topic you always use "play sniper"or the like. As if someone who doesn't follow your lead to "T" is a bad guy in our forum or hunting community. It's now getting old. This thread really highlights that sometimes you just troll.

Fwiw look up 338 thumper or spectre it's a pretty impressive and efficient round for what it is and at 100 yds I think it's a viable option to hunt game larger than rabbits with.

1. I have had no issues with function or accuracy out of a DPMS.
2. Pistols can be very accurate when in the right hands, as the video proves. I've put together many sub-inch groups with contenders and encores off of bags at 100 yards.
3. The 300 blackout will get close, but not match the ballistics of a 30-30 with proper ammo. Close, but I doubt the deer and hogs care much.
4. A blackout pistol may be the most badazz truck gun ever devised, and now I want one.

1. I've sighted in a DPMS for a friend and had no problems out of it and I ran about 100 rounds through it after sight in. Not saying DPMS are junk, especially the LR308 DPMS they are great. Was just proving a point with Charles that based off a couple of months with a lower end DPMS AR15 he does not have the knowledge nor experience to consistently bash the AR platform every chance he gets.

2. completely agree, accuracy doesn't really depend on barrel length. Here is a good write up on the myths of barrel length and accuracy

3. That is exactly what I was trying to say, the 300 is close to a 30-30, not quite but close. Given the modular design of the AR I'd rather have the 300blk than a 30-30 for a truck/blind gun. Just easier to maneuver but of course anyone that uses and AR platform is "play sniper" according to Charles.

4. Totally agree which is why I just built one, not a pistol though but an 8" SBR.

Just a little comparison,

Top is a 20" RPR
Middle Top is 16" LR308
Middle Bottom is 16" AR15
Bottom 8" 300BLK

This thing is tiny, not sure why I waited so long to do it. So much more manuverable for a truck/blind gun and weighs almost nothing without the suppressor .

Disclaimer: I'm sure one of you guys will call me out for not comparing apples to apples because it didn't have a muzzle device on it, sorry was still in the process of building it when the pic was taken and haven't take a group picture since.

A good video about the design intentions and capabilities of the 300 BO...

Nice stable of rifles and SBR's!

In other words you do not agree with what I have said, and have no real argument or information to offer, so you resort to name-calling.

Put me down as "unimpressed" by that behavior.

The topic here is the 300 Blackout. Do have any new information to offer about that round?

The 300 blackout only comes "close" to the 30-30 if we all pretend that the 30-30 does not use 150 and 170 grain bullets for deer - and 110's or 125's for varmints.

Thanks, pretty happy with them.

But at what barrel lengths??

I have never seen an 8 in 30-30 rifle.

And if the 300 is close to the 30-30, the 30-30 has killed many of deer and elk long before the new powders that give it far better ballistic performance

I agree the 300 is not a long distance round. I don't like the term sniper for a number of reasons.

I do not think the intent was to go hunting with subs when it first came out a number of years ago. As people have tinkered with bullet designs some have developed bullets that can be used with subsonic hunting.

Out of curiosity where did you see that the original intent was for long range shooting?

You always call out name-calling but ignore the fact that you name call constantly. Unwashed masses?

People who took and passed English 101 have no trouble understanding that general characterizations are not "name-calling" because they do not refer to an individual.

Duh!

Apparently, Charles, you either did not take or did not pass your favorite English 101 class you keep bringing up.
You were not called a name, other than your own, in the post you copied. P_102

That was listed as being part of the reasoning behind using large caliber, heavy for caliber bullets for sub-sonic sniper rifle rounds. They would have a rainbow trajectory of course, but they would also reach out farther and still retain plenty of killing power.

The advantage in a sub-sonic sniper round should be obvious to just about anybody.

The "Long Range" being discussed is a relative long range for a subsonic rifle projectile, as compared to the short-range performance one traditionally sees in sub-sonic pistols. The advantage in longer range for any sniping application should be obvious to anybody.

One would think so, at least - but expecting everyone to apprehend the obvious is a sure road to disappointment.

The history of sub-sonic rifle cartridge development for sniping applications is well-documented. - And it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to work out why silence, the longest ranges possible and the good terminal performance would be advantageous for snipers.

When a firearm type becomes very popular, as the AR15 has, it should come as no surprise that hokey marketing devices will tend to surface, as entrepreneurs strive to get their share of profits from the feeding frenzy. Thus we hear a lot of misinformation about the 300 Blackout shooting varmint bullets being "just as good" as a 30-30 shooting much heavier game bullets.

BS is BS, and I call it when I see it as a public service. The 300 Blackout in an AR15 makes a nice short-range target round, but is not really optimal for anything else. It is too large in caliber to succeed as a varmint or small game round, and doesn't have enough case capacity to launch heavier projectiles at reliably effective velocities for general game hunting. It can do a fair job on pigs, small deer and such at short range with 30 caliber varmint bullets- but anybody with a lever-action rifle in 30-30 will be much better equipped.

That's just how it is, when we set marketing hype aside and give the 300 blackout a BS-free, objective appraisal.

If somebody gets all butt-hurt over objective reality then that is their problem, not mine.