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Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5386184 10/29/14 11:45 AM
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cameron00 Offline
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Let me start by saying that I have done business with txtrophy85 (though deal never happened) and he is absolutely NOT who I'm talking about. Works hard, responsive, obviously looking out for his client's best interests.

The reason real estate agents get a bad rep is that so many of them do act in the fashion that therancher described. I've been part of maybe half a dozen rural land transactions, and thus far, I have dealt with 1 agent I'd say was good or very good. The vast majority of them just want to get the sale done so they can get paid.

It's just frustrating as a buyer or seller when the person that's supposed to be representing you will look you in the eye and say it's a fair price, and then you have them pull the comps and not a single parcel in the surrounding 50 square miles has ever traded at that level. How are you supposed to consider them competent? They're either lying to your face to facilitate the sale or they're so stupid they shouldn't be licensed.

That's why real estate transactions fall squarely into the 80/20 rule. 80% of the business will be done by 20% of the agents because that's who actually is qualified to be a real estate broker.

With all that said, I still wouldn't transact without one unless you've done quite a bit of homework and have experience. Lots of stuff you can miss. You can usually find the good local agents by simply looking at who has all the listings. That's not "can't miss", but it's a pretty good indicator.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5386195 10/29/14 11:55 AM
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Here's a good litmus test:

You should be able to ask your agent what comps in the area sold for and get an answer (that you can verify) without them even going to a computer.

When determining my most recent ask price, I asked my guy what bottomland hay pastures had sold recently, and he rattled off 3-4 (giving specific locations) including their attributes (pond, live creek, parcel size, open meadow, any woods) without hesitation. If a real estate agent is interested in their job, they'll follow what transactions are occurring by talking to other agents even if it's not their listing.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: cameron00] #5386436 10/29/14 02:20 PM
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txtrophy85 Offline
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Originally Posted By: cameron00

That's why real estate transactions fall squarely into the 80/20 rule. 80% of the business will be done by 20% of the agents because that's who actually is qualified to be a real estate broker.



this is true. same really with any business that is sales or production based.


Also, do your research on finding the best broker, then put your trust in him.

If I got sick I would spend my energy finding the best that specialized in that area, not trying to find a cure for myself based on what I was able to find on the internet or down at the coffee shop.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Looking For Land [Re: jetdad] #5386547 10/29/14 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: jetdad
Not everyone has the time, experience, or knowledge that you have therancher. Brokers/agents exist for a reason. That is to provide knowledge and guidance to those that need it or don't have the time to devote to finding what they want. Should they work for free? There are crooks and unethical people in every business. There are also honest hard working people in every business. Just because you got screwed doesn't mean you need paint everyone with such a broad brush. Do you think Hunter11 is familiar with ranch properties 4 hrs from where he lives? Probably not. If someone can find him what he wants and save him time and work, that is worth something. And no, I'm not a broker or agent and I don't even play one on TV. I am however staying at a Holiday In Express next week. smile


I don't disagree with anything you said. However, assuming that it takes a REA to do those things with ONLY your best interest in mind is flat out wrong. ANYONE can do it today and the individual buyer/seller is the only one with ONLY their interest in mind.

That's why I and others outlined steps for him to take.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: txshntr] #5386568 10/29/14 03:17 PM
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therancher Offline
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Originally Posted By: txshntr
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
I defend no one or any ones methods.

I defend what is right over wrong, no matter who it is.

Has there been some shady real estate deals that have took place? absolutely. But every time someone asks about buying land its all "don't trust the realtor, its better to go it alone"

I would venture a guess that 90% of all rural land sold in texas has at least one broker involved. if they were so bad, they would cease to exist.

More people get screwed by not using one that those that do.


I agree with TT. Every industry has crooks and worthless people that work in them. That is why you check references. Unless you are knowledgeable on the land, do your research extensively, have contacts, or have deep pockets, I would hire someone that knows the business and can get you in contact with the right people. So many people attempt to do things that others do for a living. The way I look at it, most people don't realize they didn't do as well as they thought they did..until they see what the professional side of it can do. But as long as they keep their blinders on, they are happy with what they have.


That's why I told him to "learn the business". If you can get an REA license in how many weeks, do you not know that pretty much anyone can do it and do it well.

I took two years to research before I bought my first ranch. Bought it with an REA. But I've pretty much forgotten more about ranch RE than most wet behind the ears agents know. And the best deals I've gotten were conducted sans REA's (both buying and selling).


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: txtrophy85] #5386573 10/29/14 03:20 PM
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therancher Offline
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Here's another "litmus test".

If an REA tells you "a buyers agent dosent' cost you anything", you know he's capable of blowing lots of smoke.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: txtrophy85] #5386644 10/29/14 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
I defend no one or any ones methods.

I defend what is right over wrong, no matter who it is.

Has there been some shady real estate deals that have took place? absolutely. But every time someone asks about buying land its all "don't trust the realtor, its better to go it alone"

I would venture a guess that 90% of all rural land sold in texas has at least one broker involved. if they were so bad, they would cease to exist.

More people get screwed by not using one that those that do.


Well then, let me refresh your memory.

In '96 I found a ranch that was perfect, $350/acre near Crystal. Went and visited it Sunday am. Told realtor I would make an offer.

Called Monday am to schedule another visit to offer $325/acre, and asked if it would be ok to make it Friday because of work (I lived 5 hours away). (gotta remember that this is before electronic advances of today). "No problem" he said and he noted that it had been for sale for a year. What I noticed on his "VHS" video was that he had listed it at $450/acre a year before. This ranch was never listed anywhere but the local crystal city rag that I had picked up in Uvalde.

Called Wednesday to firm up time for Friday visit/offer. Was told that a "contract had been signed". I asked if he'd told the seller about me and he assured me that he had.

Since I had visited the neighbor I called and got the landowners name and number. Called and he said he had not signed the contract, had NEVER been told about me, but that he had given his word so he would do that deal. Then he volunteered that he took $315/acre.

Condensed, Lanning had a pocket buyer, lied by omission to the seller and used me to set the low price.

NOW, when I told you that story months ago, you stated you saw nothing wrong with that MO. How you reconcile that with what is stated in red above is your business.

But, there are RE ethics and fiduciary responsibilities that would counter your opinion.

And that's why now, when I visit a ranch, I'm there with a contract in hand and a lawyer to offer it.



Last edited by therancher; 10/29/14 03:45 PM.

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Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5386689 10/29/14 04:05 PM
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Lol, your right, lawyers are the most scrupulous individuals out there.

If the story happened exactly like you tell it, then the landowner was done a major disservice as well as you and I agree, that he had used you to set the price. That is wrong.

But, if memory serves the story you told originally had some slight variations to it.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Looking For Land [Re: therancher] #5386908 10/29/14 05:28 PM
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I had that exact experience, therancher. Even worse when you consider it included minerals and is smack dab in the Eagle Ford.

List price was $5500 per, I did my research and found that land was generally trading between $2700 and $3500 per acre, but most of the asking prices were north of $4k. I told the selling agent I'd pay $3000 and he laughed me out of the truck and said land "would never sell at that price in this county again". This was long before the Eagle Ford boom, fyi.

After calling me with lowering prices about once a week for a month and a half, the seller would take $3100 per. I was fine with that, wrote up the offer, told the realtor to have it back to me in a couple days. A week passes and I don't hear anything and my calls aren't returned.

Finally get a hold of the agent and he's shocked and dismayed to tell me a cash buyer had taken the property. I ask the sales price, he says $3000 per. I tell him no biggie, I'll pay $3250, he says that it's already closed and he's not willing to discuss the issue further.

Guess whose buddy bought the place after I negotiated it down to a level he said "would never happen again in this county"? Guy was my agent too. Insanely unscrupulous.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: txtrophy85] #5386923 10/29/14 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Lol, your right, lawyers are the most scrupulous individuals out there.

If the story happened exactly like you tell it, then the landowner was done a major disservice as well as you and I agree, that he had used you to set the price. That is wrong.

But, if memory serves the story you told originally had some slight variations to it.



Ha, I've never been treated as badly by a lawyer as I have an REA.

And no, the story doesn't change. Jake and Buck Lanning played it exactly that way.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: cameron00] #5386939 10/29/14 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: cameron00
I had that exact experience, therancher. Even worse when you consider it included minerals and is smack dab in the Eagle Ford.

List price was $5500 per, I did my research and found that land was generally trading between $2700 and $3500 per acre, but most of the asking prices were north of $4k. I told the selling agent I'd pay $3000 and he laughed me out of the truck and said land "would never sell at that price in this county again". This was long before the Eagle Ford boom, fyi.

After calling me with lowering prices about once a week for a month and a half, the seller would take $3100 per. I was fine with that, wrote up the offer, told the realtor to have it back to me in a couple days. A week passes and I don't hear anything and my calls aren't returned.

Finally get a hold of the agent and he's shocked and dismayed to tell me a cash buyer had taken the property. I ask the sales price, he says $3000 per. I tell him no biggie, I'll pay $3250, he says that it's already closed and he's not willing to discuss the issue further.

Guess whose buddy bought the place after I negotiated it down to a level he said "would never happen again in this county"? Guy was my agent too. Insanely unscrupulous.


Yep. That's why I don't use REA's unless I absolutely have to. It is a common MO and it is a shame the Texas RE Commission doesn't crack down on that BS. I guess the RE commission is made up of those brokers, or are paid off by them.

I will add that since I adopted the "pocket lawyer" and immediate contract offer, I haven't taken it in the shorts again.

Last edited by therancher; 10/29/14 05:38 PM.

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Re: Looking For Land [Re: therancher] #5387021 10/29/14 06:09 PM
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Hunter11 Offline OP
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Hmmmmm....I guess I have a lot of learning to do. I really didn't mean to open a can of worms on anyone, was just asking for advice.

Thanks

Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5387055 10/29/14 06:27 PM
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Haha, this happens all the time.

Good luck on your search. As mentioned, you can find some of the timber company land for pretty cheap within a couple hours of Houston.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: therancher] #5387059 10/29/14 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: cameron00
I had that exact experience, therancher. Even worse when you consider it included minerals and is smack dab in the Eagle Ford.

List price was $5500 per, I did my research and found that land was generally trading between $2700 and $3500 per acre, but most of the asking prices were north of $4k. I told the selling agent I'd pay $3000 and he laughed me out of the truck and said land "would never sell at that price in this county again". This was long before the Eagle Ford boom, fyi.

After calling me with lowering prices about once a week for a month and a half, the seller would take $3100 per. I was fine with that, wrote up the offer, told the realtor to have it back to me in a couple days. A week passes and I don't hear anything and my calls aren't returned.

Finally get a hold of the agent and he's shocked and dismayed to tell me a cash buyer had taken the property. I ask the sales price, he says $3000 per. I tell him no biggie, I'll pay $3250, he says that it's already closed and he's not willing to discuss the issue further.

Guess whose buddy bought the place after I negotiated it down to a level he said "would never happen again in this county"? Guy was my agent too. Insanely unscrupulous.


Yep. That's why I don't use REA's unless I absolutely have to. It is a common MO and it is a shame the Texas RE Commission doesn't crack down on that BS. I guess the RE commission is made up of those brokers, or are paid off by them.

I will add that since I adopted the "pocket lawyer" and immediate contract offer, I haven't taken it in the shorts again.


Did y'all go through the formal complaint process with TREC on these instances?

I guess they've cracked down on stuff like this since the Betamax/VHS days, but it seems as if there is almost an adversarial relationship to protect the public interest by the regulating authorities right now. I can't imagine there would not be an investigation at a minimum. I have no reason to doubt you and may just be using a 2014 frame of reference for a 1980s or 90s incident.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: HuntnFly67] #5387087 10/29/14 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: cameron00
I had that exact experience, therancher. Even worse when you consider it included minerals and is smack dab in the Eagle Ford.

List price was $5500 per, I did my research and found that land was generally trading between $2700 and $3500 per acre, but most of the asking prices were north of $4k. I told the selling agent I'd pay $3000 and he laughed me out of the truck and said land "would never sell at that price in this county again". This was long before the Eagle Ford boom, fyi.

After calling me with lowering prices about once a week for a month and a half, the seller would take $3100 per. I was fine with that, wrote up the offer, told the realtor to have it back to me in a couple days. A week passes and I don't hear anything and my calls aren't returned.

Finally get a hold of the agent and he's shocked and dismayed to tell me a cash buyer had taken the property. I ask the sales price, he says $3000 per. I tell him no biggie, I'll pay $3250, he says that it's already closed and he's not willing to discuss the issue further.

Guess whose buddy bought the place after I negotiated it down to a level he said "would never happen again in this county"? Guy was my agent too. Insanely unscrupulous.


Yep. That's why I don't use REA's unless I absolutely have to. It is a common MO and it is a shame the Texas RE Commission doesn't crack down on that BS. I guess the RE commission is made up of those brokers, or are paid off by them.

I will add that since I adopted the "pocket lawyer" and immediate contract offer, I haven't taken it in the shorts again.


Did y'all go through the formal complaint process with TREC on these instances?

I guess they've cracked down on stuff like this since the Betamax/VHS days, but it seems as if there is almost an adversarial relationship to protect the public interest by the regulating authorities right now. I can't imagine there would not be an investigation at a minimum. I have no reason to doubt you and may just be using a 2014 frame of reference for a 1980s or 90s incident.


I can assure you mine was reported and nothing was done.

I don't know this but based on Cameron's pricing his was in the last 5 years.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5387095 10/29/14 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Hunter11
Hmmmmm....I guess I have a lot of learning to do. I really didn't mean to open a can of worms on anyone, was just asking for advice.

Thanks


There is always a can of worms in RE. And after all I've said, if you aren't willing to do the work/research then even I would advise you to try and find a REA that you could trust.

My points are:
1. You can get REALLY BURNED by dealing with REA's.
2. You can save yourself a LOT of money and heartache if you're willing to work.
3. ANYONE can do it. With today's technology it's a ton easier than when I started, and I'm no rocket surgeon.

If you are just trying to save 3-6% of your purchase price then the amount of work you will do might not be cost effective. YOU have to determine that cost analysis.

In my case, I was wanting to build wealth and end up with a large stack of ranchland. So, I was/am in it for a lot more than 3-6%.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: therancher] #5387150 10/29/14 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: cameron00
I had that exact experience, therancher. Even worse when you consider it included minerals and is smack dab in the Eagle Ford.

List price was $5500 per, I did my research and found that land was generally trading between $2700 and $3500 per acre, but most of the asking prices were north of $4k. I told the selling agent I'd pay $3000 and he laughed me out of the truck and said land "would never sell at that price in this county again". This was long before the Eagle Ford boom, fyi.

After calling me with lowering prices about once a week for a month and a half, the seller would take $3100 per. I was fine with that, wrote up the offer, told the realtor to have it back to me in a couple days. A week passes and I don't hear anything and my calls aren't returned.

Finally get a hold of the agent and he's shocked and dismayed to tell me a cash buyer had taken the property. I ask the sales price, he says $3000 per. I tell him no biggie, I'll pay $3250, he says that it's already closed and he's not willing to discuss the issue further.

Guess whose buddy bought the place after I negotiated it down to a level he said "would never happen again in this county"? Guy was my agent too. Insanely unscrupulous.


Yep. That's why I don't use REA's unless I absolutely have to. It is a common MO and it is a shame the Texas RE Commission doesn't crack down on that BS. I guess the RE commission is made up of those brokers, or are paid off by them.

I will add that since I adopted the "pocket lawyer" and immediate contract offer, I haven't taken it in the shorts again.




I've been burned twice.

once I was on a ranch in Maverick county. Guy came up to me and asked if I could help him sell his place in Dimmit. If I did he would give me 5% commission.

a few months go by, I have a guy in my truck with his broker and we look at a few places, nothing fits. we drive over to his ranch in Carrizo Springs and they fall in love. we verbally reach an agreement and I type it up THAT DAY, buyer signs and I send it to him, they confirm they got it and said they would sign and send it back. One day passes, two days pass, on the third day I call them up and they said they have put it under contract with another party. Turns out he had a buyer and he used me to get a price set.

on another deal out in Pecos County, a buddy of mines dad was looking for land with CRP income on it. I find him a ranch and we go look at it. it was listed FSBO, with a 3% commission going to a broker. Talked to the guy on the phone, go look at the ranch, he likes it. We verify the CRP, DCP programs on it and put it under contract with a 14 day option.

Day 12 comes and buyer backs out saying he didn't think the CRP was going to be renewed and wants to exercise his option. No problem, we cancel the contract.

a few months go by and I get a call from my buddy, seems his dad wants me to swing by the office and talk about his ranch in Pecos County that he bought. I start asking him questions about the place, to make a long story short, after he canceled the contract a week later he called the owner and they reached a deal that was exactly the same price less my commission.

Even buyers and landowners can be chitty, its not just Brokers and Agents


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Looking For Land [Re: txtrophy85] #5387290 10/29/14 08:34 PM
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Without a doubt.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5388666 10/30/14 03:01 PM
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I'm definitely a total scumbag.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: cameron00] #5389501 10/30/14 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: cameron00
I'm definitely a total scumbag.


Do you leave a pile of goo where ever you go?

If so that's pretty scummy


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5391654 11/01/14 02:07 AM
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Rancher, it is confusing to me you told him to look on Lands of Texas, real estate magazines and realtor flyers. I assure you 99% of those properties are listed by a realtor. So he calls the listing agent who represents the seller and has a 6% interest in not looking out for his interest. You have given out extremely poor advice. My wife is a realtor and a great one. I find people like you offensive to say the least. You may know a lot about a bunch of things but apparently real estate ain't one of them. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but there is a very small percentage of realtors like that.

Hunter11, do your own research on the above mentioned websites to narrow down the area you want and what the going rates are in that area. Lands of Texas is great, you can search by county and price range. This way you are more informed about what types of properties are available and cost. Then get you a realtor to do the finding and searching. It will be very beneficial I promise you.

Re: Looking For Land [Re: EVCO] #5391668 11/01/14 02:23 AM
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I'm very pleased to offend you evco.

I told him to look at those sources for RESEARCH. Not necessarily to use the rea's. Just like your last paragraph states (except of course for the last two BS sentences).

I've done alright in ranch RE. Regardless of your opinion. Sorry to bust your bubble.


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Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5394047 11/02/14 08:28 PM
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Make sure you walk the whole property before you make a call. My dad wanted about 20 acres. I found this one piece in trinity county (40 acres). We called the realitor, she said she couldnt make it out there the day we wanted to go look at it (sunday), so we asked her to call the owners and he said go ahead. When we drove up to the front gate, all we saw was pasture. The ad. for the property said 4 acre lake and showed many large oaks on the pics. I was mad. Dad wanted to turn around and leave, but I said I wanted to walk the place first. I climbed the fence (with permission) and walked the pasture with cows following. When I got to the end of the pasture, I called dad and told him he better come to where I was. 20 minutes later he was on the phone talking to the agent working on a deal. He retired 4 years later and is out there every chance he has. Its beautiful, great neighbors, good deer, great experience for the kids and grandkids and an outstanding 4 acre pond. Good luck on your search. Its very rewarding when it pays off. Only drawback is a timber company owns some surrounding property that they cut a few years back, but that just gave me an opportunity to plant trees in the pasture. The best part about it is that it is ours. We make the calls. Nobody else. once again good luck.
Here is the agent that we went through to get the place. carolyn@navasotarealtyinc.com

Re: Looking For Land [Re: Hunter11] #5401407 11/06/14 12:36 AM
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I found my property on Lands of Texas. I researched for two years to find what I wanted. I did not use a buyer REA, but the seller's listing agent was helpful in getting the deal closed. I ended up offering 72% of asking price, and counter from seller was 74% of original ask. I could not find any comps in the area, but used an average price of land sales by county in Texas, and trends shown there to arrive at an offer price.


Best regards,
Randy Cooper
Re: Looking For Land [Re: armadillophil] #5402507 11/06/14 03:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,296
Originally Posted By: armadillophil
You need to look everyday on craigslist for a fsbo. Don't skip a day and get your financing in order. A deal will come up every 6 months but if its a deal it will go quick. Start looking at properties even if they don't fit your criteria 100%. You will see whats out there and what is most important to you. Im not opposed to realtors I just don't like paying retail for anything. Pm if you have any questions.
This is exactly how I found my land. Super great deal posted at 2am Christmas eve. Drove out at 8 in the morning on Christmas eve told him I wanted it. Took me about 5 weeks to obtain financing through Capital Farm Credit. "I highly recommend them"


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