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Shooting a muzzle loader #5269215 08/24/14 02:21 PM
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Booner1 Offline OP
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Should I shoot loose powder or pellets? Is one more accurate than the other? Does one burn cleaner? Does it burn hotter? I have been shooting Triple Seven pellets from my 209 inline and just wondering if there was a better alternative. Any input on White Hots? Thanks for any advise you might have.


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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5269233 08/24/14 02:41 PM
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I shoot Triple 7 2fg in my Omega. I like the flexibility of being able to measure different loads. I have been able to refine loads that will shoot one inch groups at 100 yards. I tried pellets when I first started and quickly changed. Loose powder is also less expensive. Never tried White Hots.

If you're having trouble with groups, you may want to play with different bullet, powder volumes and primers. You'll find out what your ML likes to eat. Lots of guys like Blackhorn 209. My Omega doesn't like it as well as it does Triple 7.

Check this out: http://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm This will tighten your groups too. It did mine. Good luck and happy and safe shooting.


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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5271348 08/25/14 08:18 PM
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I use 3 white hots out of my pro hunter (28" barrel) and get about 2200 fps with a 250 gr Barnes bullet.

I know for a fact that loose Triple 7 powder burns more completely than pellets and you will likely get better consistency by measuring & having loose powder. I use to shoot 120 gr of loose triple 7 out of my older Black Knight MZL pushing a 300 gr Barnes Bullet.
Very consistent and accurate.

I use the white hot pellets now because it's easier (so I am lazy) and I really don't see any variation in accuracy out to about 200 yds. At 100 yards I can shot 1" groups if I keep a clean barrel.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5271352 08/25/14 08:21 PM
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I shoot pellets for the easiness of reloading my inline Remington Genesis Muzzy. However, on my traditional Hawken, I use loose powder. I will say the loose powder does appear to be more accurate for what reason I don't know.


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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5271398 08/25/14 08:39 PM
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Nice bull TonyinVA. What did he score? 350?


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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5272047 08/26/14 02:20 AM
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Right around 370 gross....the load was 120 grs of powder and a 300 gr Barnes bullet

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5304380 09/13/14 01:38 PM
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I'm back into Muzzle loader hunting this year after a long absence.....been using Blackhorn 209 in cartridge guns, anyone use it in an in-line 209? And sorry before hand for jumping the thread.

Last edited by Concho; 09/13/14 01:41 PM.


Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5304650 09/13/14 04:45 PM
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IMO Blackhorn 209 is the best thing that's happened for in-line muzzleloaders in years. Its easy to clean up, leaves no crud ring and is great for developing new loads. I usually start at 90 grs. and work up. With pellets you're stuck with using a two or three pellet load. The sweet spot for all of my rifles is 110gr of BH 209, Federal's 209A primer, a 250 or 300 gr Hornady SST bullet and a Harvester Black crush rib sabot or Hornady's EZ load sabot. To assure consistent loads I measure by volume and then weight my loads. I don't swab between loads. I rarely shoot more that 15 rounds at a range session, but I know of a number of folks that shoot up to a 100 rds, with no real change in pressure on the ramrod to load. Check Blackhorn's website for suggested load combinations etc. I have the Lehigh bare primer conversions on all 3 Knighs and my new Redemption has the optional loose powder breech plug. Some older guns may need a new BH209 breech plug to avoid hang fires. The other great benefit is the ability to leave the gun loaded for several days on a trip because it doesn't absorb moisture.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Jim Adams] #5304699 09/13/14 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jim Adams
IMO Blackhorn 209 is the best thing that's happened for in-line muzzleloaders in years. Its easy to clean up, leaves no crud ring and is great for developing new loads. I usually start at 90 grs. and work up. With pellets you're stuck with using a two or three pellet load. The sweet spot for all of my rifles is 110gr of BH 209, Federal's 209A primer, a 250 or 300 gr Hornady SST bullet and a Harvester Black crush rib sabot or Hornady's EZ load sabot. To assure consistent loads I measure by volume and then weight my loads. I don't swab between loads. I rarely shoot more that 15 rounds at a range session, but I know of a number of folks that shoot up to a 100 rds, with no real change in pressure on the ramrod to load. Check Blackhorn's website for suggested load combinations etc. I have the Lehigh bare primer conversions on all 3 Knighs and my new Redemption has the optional loose powder breech plug. Some older guns may need a new BH209 breech plug to avoid hang fires. The other great benefit is the ability to leave the gun loaded for several days on a trip because it doesn't absorb moisture.


Thanks, I am shooting an older Knight DISC bolt rifle, probably end up changing the breech plug. I have been shooting the Blackhorn 209 in my cartridge rifles/pistols and it is the best thing since sliced pickles......too bad SASS has already outlawed it.



Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5306070 09/14/14 06:16 PM
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First muzzy cheers back in de day .45 Kentucky twas me first deer rifle. used it ta bark squirrels outa the tree. people laugh & make fun of me whin they see me wondering about the woods. so ta fit in take me pirret gun just ta fit in. times is tough for some. can't afford de $48.00 permit like pappy always say's: don't give up your day job, price of hunten tis going up my post tis cheep, let the experts explain the tough stuff, that thar tis all high-tech ta me. flag



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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: TonyinVA] #5306075 09/14/14 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
I use 3 white hots out of my pro hunter (28" barrel) and get about 2200 fps with a 250 gr Barnes bullet.

I know for a fact that loose Triple 7 powder burns more completely than pellets and you will likely get better consistency by measuring & having loose powder. I use to shoot 120 gr of loose triple 7 out of my older Black Knight MZL pushing a 300 gr Barnes Bullet.
Very consistent and accurate.

I use the white hot pellets now because it's easier (so I am lazy) and I really don't see any variation in accuracy out to about 200 yds. At 100 yards I can shot 1" groups if I keep a clean barrel.

up on elk & good advice flag



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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5308512 09/16/14 12:53 AM
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While I have not tried it, I have heard a lot of positive comments on the BH 209 regarding how it doesn't foul the barrel. If I were shooting loose powder that would be my choice. As I mentioned in an early post, I use the White Hots now mainly because of convenience.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5308545 09/16/14 01:09 AM
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I have shot white hots for the last couple of years. However after finishing up my first box I purchased a second and the grouping has gone to heck. I have tried a couple of different types of bullets but for now I am seriously considering trying some triple 7 pellets or powder. You can make up you own mind but you should read the review at chuck hawks. It points out several things for someone looking at white hots.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/white_hot_pellets.htm

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5310654 09/17/14 02:02 AM
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bassman, I had seen that write up before. I use to shoot Triple 7 and went to the White Hots....out of my ProHunter the WhiteHots and the Tripple 7 are about the same. that said, my Outfitter in Iowa uses White Hots....Judd Cooney who you may have heard off....and he chronographer both loads and insists the WhiteHots are more consistent velocity wise and faster.

Since I fly to Iowa each year to hunt and cannot take any powder on the plan I use the exact same load as Judd uses (we both have identical guns)...hence I switched to the WhiteHots and while they are more expensive they shoot great out of my muzzleloader.

Perhaps the last batch you purchased had some moisture issues.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5313424 09/18/14 02:55 PM
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I like the ease of pellets over the loose powder, especially in damp or high humidity conditions. First started with pyrodex pellets and got good results but now use 777 50gr pellets entirely. Took this bull in 2001 in the Apache Forest in NM at 154 yards with the old CVA with 300gr Barnes Xpress and 150grs. Pyrodex. Had the rifle dialed in at 200 yards!



I now use a Knight Rifle with the same bullet/powder combo. Took a cow elk at 132 yards back in 2007, a few deer, and several pigs. Haven't elk hunted since 2007.


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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5313721 09/18/14 05:01 PM
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Nice Elk Mr. Dickey. bg

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5313890 09/18/14 06:41 PM
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Tks. He scored 328, guide guesstimated he weigh 1200lbs. Old bull with some character!


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Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5324944 09/25/14 12:50 AM
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That is a nice elk and taking it with muzzle loader makes it all that nicer.

To follow up on my comments about the white hots, I ended up getting back out to the range with some new pyrodex pellets. The old smoker came back into an acceptable grouping at 100 yrds. I don't know if the second box of white hots got moisture in them or not. I did not have them long but don't know how long they had been on the shelf. But I was disappointed after spending ~$30, missing a deer, and finding out my grouping had went to heck at the range. I still have about half of the box left. Guess I will figure out how to dispose of them as I won't be using the remainder of them. I will be hesitant to use them again. It would be interesting to chrono them to see if there is a difference load to load. I also learned a lesson for the future. If I buy new powder I will head to the range before I hunt with it.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5325575 09/25/14 01:13 PM
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bassman, I have had no issue with WhiteHots or Tripple 7 pellets. We have Chronographed the Whitehots (3 pellet load) and they did shoot faster and had less variation than the Tripple 7. That said I am shooting a ProHunter with a long barrel and barrel length makes difference in muzzleloaders. BTW, a few things to remember. Don't take a loaded Muzzleloader indoors if you have been hunting out in the cold as moisture will build up. I hunt late season in Iowa and we either leave the guns loaded on the outside porch or I take mine inside, clean it and reload it before I go back out.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5326684 09/26/14 12:12 AM
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TonyinVA, thanks for the tips and info on your experience with the white hots. I shoot a CVA optima which is about 2" shorter than your prohunter. I have owned it now about 3-4 years and have taken 5 deer with it. Mainly does for the freezer so nothing like the nice pic you have in your post. I also hunt in the late season and as I had said had never had any issues. Originally I had tried 3 pellet load but at least in my gun 2 seems to group better at 100 yrds. I live/hunt in Texas and mostly in January for muzzleloader. I always unload it before I go inside. That is one of the things I liked about pellets. You can simply remove the breech plug and push the sabot and load out. I will say last year was a strange weather year here in TX. In January it was at or near freezing in mornings and would warm up to upper 40's in the afternoons. Again, thanks for the advice and maybe I will do some more testing with them in the future. I would like to chrono the loads I have to see if there is a variance or if something else was going on.

Re: Shooting a muzzle loader [Re: Booner1] #5326850 09/26/14 01:34 AM
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Bassman, I bought the same CVA for my son...the Thumbhole version via Cabela's. While I agree that 100 grs shoots great for most guns, I have his gun shooting just as good with 3 pellets as 2. The gun he has is the version with the Bergara barrel. I also think the bullet that you use effects things. I found that the 250gr Barnes and the 250gr Hornady (which is the same as the TC shockwave) shot identical out of the guns.

All that said, if the gun shoots well and you are killing deer or elk....no reason to change. As I said in an earlier post, I wanted to replicate the load my Outfitter shoots so that I did not have to worry about transporting powder on the planes.

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