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Re: 1 in 9 twist. Got questions [Re: Marc K] #5083664 04/23/14 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: Marc Kurth
I don't shoot steel, but based on the test results in the article - my arithmetic says that you can keep buying new barrels every 3K to 4K rounds and always be ahead financially. In fact if you shoot enough, you could buy a whole new spare AR-15 with the savings!

Do the math based on your own ammo/barrel costs, but cheap steel ammo is running about $0.08 to $.12 per round less than the Federal brass 5.56 brass that many of us use.
Again, pick your own averaged out numbers - but here are mine:
Russian steel ammo .223 = $.27/round
Federal brass cased 5.56 = $.38/round

So if your barrel is shot out at 4K rounds, you have $440 in your pocket to buy a new barrel - because you used cheap steel cased ammo. If you buy a barrel for $340. you still have $100 in your pocket for the next barrel - or more ammo.....


This is my point. The range I shoot at does not allow FMJ, so the cost difference between a brass cased hollow point and the Silver Bear hollow point is enough to replace the barrel every few thousand rounds if needed. The barrel is a wear item... it's like tires. When it no longer will group well, I will replace it.

Re: 1 in 9 twist. Got questions [Re: BigPig] #5084086 04/23/14 02:40 PM
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If I couldn't shoot fmj at the range, I'd find a different range. That go for handguns as well or just rifles? I shoot at the farm, but when I do go the range, their only rule is no metal core.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: 1 in 9 twist. Got questions [Re: TFF Caribou] #5084345 04/23/14 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
If I couldn't shoot fmj at the range, I'd find a different range. That go for handguns as well or just rifles? I shoot at the farm, but when I do go the range, their only rule is no metal core.


Rifles only... outdoor range. Pretty standard rule for ranges here in the Dallas area.

Re: 1 in 9 twist. Got questions [Re: BigPig] #5084358 04/23/14 04:50 PM
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Ah ok. That makes more sense then. The only outdoor range I've ever shot at is alpine and that was just to sight a deer rifle in. I'm blessed that I can just drive 45 minutes to the farm and shoot how and what I want, but not everybody has that luxury.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: 1 in 9 twist. Got questions [Re: BigPig] #5084497 04/23/14 06:22 PM
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The reason why is that FMJ rifle rounds do not flatten out like a typical lead bullet will. They want to hold together and bounce of things, even dirt mounds. If the gun range is insured (which most or all are), then the insurance company requires them to not allow FMJ rounds. It's not the range's fault.


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Re: 1 in 9 twist. Got questions [Re: Toxarch] #5084508 04/23/14 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Toxarch
Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Originally Posted By: Toxarch
There's an article on the use of Russian ammo vs US ammo in an AR15. I'll see if I can find it when I am on my computer. They put 8-10k rounds through a set of identical factory new rifles. What they found was the copper jacket on the Russian ammo was harder than the US stuff so it would wear out the barrel faster. What you save on ammo, you end up spending to replace the barrel.


Even if you save just .04 cents a round, buy the time you hit 10k rounds (which very very few shooters will ever get to In their AR) you will have saved $400 in ammo costs. And you can save way more than that. The .04 was just a number I pulled out of the air. Saving $1 a box is .05 a round. And Russian ammo will be far cheaper than that.

Did you read the article? The Brown bear accuracy dropped off after 4K rounds and the barrel was considered "shot out" by 6K rounds. If you are fine with 8-12 MOA out of an AR at high round counts, then go for it. Accuracy shooting the Federal didn't drop even after 10K rounds. You can keep on shooting that barrel.
Originally Posted By: cyphertext
Originally Posted By: Toxarch
All the test gun barrels got hot.

Personally, I spend enough money on the barrel the first time. Don't want to have to replace it.


I know all the barrels got hot, but I think that it accelerated the wear. But at any rate, if you shoot it enough, you will replace it.

Then wear would have accelerated in all the barrels. And there was the 9 failures in the Brown Bear and 15 in the Wolf. Those barrels were allowed to cool some so the jam/stuck case/whatever could be cleared.

Granted, this was a torture test on the guns to compare ammo. But I think it does show the abuse your barrel takes so the owner can "save" a little on ammo cost. It's your gun, feed it what you want.



Well, another thing to think about is that there are many, many hunting AR15s that see regular use but probably chamber and fire less than 100 rounds per year. Those barrels may not start to drop accuracy on their way to being shot-out until they have been inherited by next of kin and are well into their second or even third tenure regardless of what they are fed. I also have to wonder how different a barrel fed a steady diet of 100 bimetal bullets per year for 100 years would look next to one fed 10,000 in a day...

Then again, if you're shooting 100 rounds per year the difference between a $0.27 bimetal jacketed, steel cased cartridge and a $0.35 copper jacketed, brass cased cartridge isn't necessarily that significant either.

Last edited by GriffGruff78; 04/23/14 06:37 PM.
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