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Kansas Prairie Chicken #5020670 03/14/14 06:29 AM
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First time I saw this. I guess they are trying to legislate the Feds out of Prairie Chicken management in Kansas.

SB276. Enacting the state sovereignty over non-migratory wildlife act.
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/documents/sb276_00_0000.pdf
https://www.govtrack.us/states/ks/bills/2013-2014/sb276

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5020795 03/14/14 12:51 PM
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Even if enacted I think this would be struck down in Federal court. Federal law is higher than state law, a long time tested precedent in law.
Probably a more important effort to affect any decision regarding the Prairie Chick is action taken by Western Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies.

http://www.wafwa.org/

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/media/chickenrangewide.htm

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5021168 03/14/14 04:52 PM
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I am not sure this one works as simple as federal law trumps state law management issue. Any federal listing could still happen, just there would be no cooperation from Kansas with enforcing it within Kansas. The bill makes a proclamation that the endangered species act was based on interstate commerce and prairie chickens in Kansas are not migratory and so don't fall under the 10th amendment. Then the bill makes it is a Felony for anyone to assist or enforce Federal Law regarding Prairie Chickens in Kansas. Looks like Kansas is wanting to push this to the Supreme court for a determination of whether the endangered species act related to management of Prairie Chickens fall under the 10th amendment or not. The chicken is just a pawn for a far bigger constitutional political issue the state is wanting to challenge. It is a mess. Listed, the feds get to deal with this. Not listed the feds get to deal with a flood of lawsuits from environmental groups.

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5021183 03/14/14 05:02 PM
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I was going to stay closer to home next season, but I am starting to waiver. I bought last season's license and my state park vehicle permit during a Kansas goose hunt in January so it is still good for all of 2014. To get my money's worth I just might try to do a short mid September Kansas Prairie Chicken Hunt this year. PC have mostly not been in season when I have done my Pheasant hunts and I know nothing about the early PC season or targeting only them, so I guess I better start researching it now to see if it is doable for Dash and I.

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5021613 03/14/14 09:52 PM
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State game wardens may not enforce a Federal ruling but Federal game wardens will.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kansas resisted a Federal ruling that they wouldn't see an increase in Fed game wardens in their state. Kansas won't be arresting them or interfering with their enforcement actions.
Most people have never seen a Federal game warden but I have. He was accompanied by a State warden at the time and that state warden didn't interfere with his actions in any way. We were in compliance so he didn't bother us but the fellows in the neighboring quarter section didn't fare to well.
Seems to me that the issue of State Sovereignty and the hierarchy of Federal law was argued mightily in a thing called the Civil War. Anyone remember how that turned out?
That said, I think you plan for a Sept. hunt might be a wise one. I'm planning a scouting trip to S. Dakota about the same time and might do the same on the return. Without dogs tho because Kansas in Sept. is too brutally hot for dogs.

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5021941 03/15/14 02:47 AM
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This is very similar to the Kansas firearms bill last year.

http://audubonofkansas.org/2014/kansas-s...airie-chickens/

1) Any federal law, treaty, regulation or executive action that specifically regulates the following is null, void and unenforceable within the state:

(1) The lesser prairie-chicken;
(2) The greater prairie-chicken;
(3) The habitats of such species;
(4) Farming practices that affect such species; or
(5) Other human activity that affects such species or the habitats of such species.

2) No official, agent or employee of the state of Kansas, or any political subdivision thereof, shall enforce or attempt to enforce any federal law, treaty, regulation or executive action that specifically regulates the (same as above).

3) And further, “It is unlawful for any official, agent or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States to enforce or attempt to enforce any federal law, treaty, regulation or executive action that specifically regulates the (same as above).

“Violation of this section is a severity level 10, nonperson felony.”

With this in mind, wildlife biologists or law enforcement agents with the US Fish and Wildlife Service, the Kansas Department of Wildlife, Parks and Tourism, and others, could be hauled into court and charged with a felony for any actions, as described, to protect Prairie-chickens or their habitat in Kansas.

Needless to say, any action against federal employees or their agents would be determined to be invalid in federal court (and probably in state court as well). However, a state law that makes it a felony for a state employee or others to be involved with protection of Prairie-chickens and their habitat as part of any federal threatened species recovery program may be more problematic.

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5022322 03/15/14 02:30 PM
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I wish we had cell phones with cameras back in the 70's & 80's. I shot many a limit of those Prairie Chickens (purple breasted chickens is what we called them). When my Dad was younger (in the 40's & 50's), they were thick in SE Kansas, but I had to travel about 10 miles west to Buxton, Ks to hunt them. Today, there are very few if any in that area. If I were to go to Kansas to hunt them, I would focus on a circle from Council Grove to Holton to Concordia to Salina and back to Council Grove. Hunting the early season (you hunt them like quail and pheasant during this time and they can hold well at times) isn't as bad with dogs as some might think. It gets a lot cooler in northern Kansas in the evenings and mornings than in Texas. Of course some years will be too hot, but most are very pleasant in the middle of September. I have always hunted them for about 4 hours in the morning (6:30am to 10:30am) and then head back out for about 2 to 3 hours in the evening. There is a lot of walk in hunting in the area I described and it is not unusual to get your limits two days in a row. It is also not unusual to blank out! You got to go to know! Kind of like Elk hunting in Colorado, every year you get a year smarter and eventually you get it figured out. I should have helped the learning curve with the area I gave you.

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5024114 03/16/14 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sniper John
I am not sure this one works as simple as federal law trumps state law management issue. Any federal listing could still happen, just there would be no cooperation from Kansas with enforcing it within Kansas. The bill makes a proclamation that the endangered species act was based on interstate commerce and prairie chickens in Kansas are not migratory and so don't fall under the 10th amendment. Then the bill makes it is a Felony for anyone to assist or enforce Federal Law regarding Prairie Chickens in Kansas. Looks like Kansas is wanting to push this to the Supreme court for a determination of whether the endangered species act related to management of Prairie Chickens fall under the 10th amendment or not. The chicken is just a pawn for a far bigger constitutional political issue the state is wanting to challenge. It is a mess. Listed, the feds get to deal with this. Not listed the feds get to deal with a flood of lawsuits from environmental groups.



There was a big tri state plan year or two back were okla, tx and co were trying to get a plan together to keep the management under them and not the Feds, I think the Feds approved the management plan this year. More of a please don't over regulate us.

I know KS sees the bigger pictures more about lander owner rights and challenging what the Feds can do to private land owner that fall under native range. basically KS is trying to keep them from over regulations go private property in the name of the PC,


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Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: tick-magnet] #5024119 03/16/14 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: tick-magnet
Even if enacted I think this would be struck down in Federal court. Federal law is higher than state law, a long time tested precedent in law.
Probably a more important effort to affect any decision regarding the Prairie Chick is action taken by Western Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies.

http://www.wafwa.org/

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/media/chickenrangewide.htm


KS isn't challenging really the hunting of them, they are challenging if the Feds can come in on private property banning farming, etc in the name of the PC.


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Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5024310 03/17/14 12:55 AM
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1) Any federal law, treaty, regulation or executive action that specifically regulates the following is null, void and unenforceable within the state:

3) And further, “It is unlawful for any official, agent or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States to enforce or attempt to enforce any federal law, treaty, regulation or executive action that specifically regulates the (same as above).


The term "Any Federal law" implies enforcement of hunting laws also, but Kansas could cease PC hunting by their own actions. However the above paragraphs are crux of the issue. States can not nullify or negate Federal law within their boundaries.

This maneuver was tried by Arkansas during the Civil Rights desegregation era at a Little Rock High School and Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne to enforce desegregation. Wallace tried it in Alabama at a university and, if I recall correctly, he watched the Alabama National Guard Federalized by Kennedy.

Granted this issue is not of the magnitude of Desegregation law but you can expect the reaction to be the same. The Feds will step in and enforce their regulations in the absence of state action. You might also see the withholding of some funding, possibly wildlife and agriculture funding, to the state of Kansas. And not the least is Environmental groups suing Kansas in Federal Courts for failure to enforce or violation of Fed. Regulation. You can bet money on that.

This nothing more than a political stunt by Kansas Attorney General Kris Kobach, just like Governors Faubus of Arkansas and Wallace of Alabama during desegregation. Kobach is a lawyer and he knows what the end result will be. Question is, will the Kansas Legislature pass this submission by Kobach or will they table it in committee?

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5024375 03/17/14 01:43 AM
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https://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/LPC.html

"Fish and Wildlife Service Reopens Public Comment Period on Special Rule under Endangered Species Act for Lesser Prairie-Chicken

Reopening Ensures Public Access to Range-wide Conservation PlanJanuary 2014The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is reopening for 14 days the public comment period on the proposed special rule that would provide regulatory certainty for landowners by exempting from regulation conservation actions and development undertaken in accordance with the state-developed, range-wide lesser prairie-chicken conservation plan, should the prairie-chicken be listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). The reopening is to ensure that the public has access to the range-wide conservation plan referenced in the special rule. The range-wide plan is now posted on the agency’s web site.Comments must be received by February 12, 2014"



This is what tbe issue is. KS is looking for a back up plan that can't be unplugged over night


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Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5028178 03/19/14 02:17 PM
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"However, much of the prairie chicken population and some sage grouse are on private property that could become subject to some of the most invasive private land-use rules and property acquisitions in the history of the protected-species law. The birds' habitat includes an estimated 50 million to 100 million acres of federal and private land, according to the federal Natural Resources Conservation Service."


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Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5031460 03/21/14 03:20 AM
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I don't think a lot of people understand that when the feds file a case on you it isn't in a local municipal or JP court or even any state court. It is a federal court with a federal prosecutor hearing charges on a federal crime.

Last edited by StateGameWardenTX; 03/21/14 03:26 AM.

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Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5043323 03/28/14 05:55 PM
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I just found this article this morning. Sounds like the listing of the lesser prairie chicken as a federally threatened species goes in effect on May 1st.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/...atened-species/

Re: Kansas Prairie Chicken [Re: Sniper John] #5049436 04/01/14 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sniper John
....I just might try to do a short mid September Kansas Prairie Chicken Hunt this year. ...


Or not. Another game bird to be hunted no more. At least we still have Greater Prairie Chickens to hunt.

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/documents/R2ES/LPC_Final_Listing_Rule_FR_20140327.pdf

"Our Response: Hunting programs are administered by State wildlife agencies.
Currently, lesser prairie-chicken harvest is allowed only in Kansas. As discussed in the
Hunting and Other Forms of Recreation, Educational, or Scientific Use section of the
rule, we do not consider hunting to be a threat to the species at this time. However, as
populations become smaller and more isolated by habitat fragmentation, their resiliency
to the influence of any additional sources of mortality will decline. Intentional hunting of
the lesser prairie-chicken will be prohibited when this listing goes into effect
...."

http://www.fws.gov/home/feature/2014/lesser-prairie-chicken/Lesser-Prairie-Chicken-FAQs.pdf

Q: What will the impact be on hunting as a result of the threatened listing?
A: The Service understands that the state of Kansas, which heretofore has been the only state to allow
hunting of the lesser prairie-chicken in recent years, will not be allowing sport hunting of the bird
in the future
.

Not sure, but looks like incidental take in the overlapping counties might be allowed.
https://www.fws.gov/home/feature/2014/lesser-prairie-chicken/LPC-final-4d-rule.pdf
Hunter Harvest (incidental to legal hunting of greater prairie-chickens where the 10
ranges of the two species overlap)


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