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Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: therancher] #5010711 03/08/14 01:42 AM
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Boys, you better take a close look around-the reptile population is on the brink. No toads, no lizards, no mountain boomers, no water snakes in the willows under a tank dam, no bees, and no quail.

Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: therancher] #5010802 03/08/14 02:45 AM
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When you see Hawks eating what the buzzards have been eating the last two days you know there are to many Hawks. I Have seen that in East Texas a lot lately.

Last edited by Whoa; 03/08/14 02:46 AM.
Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: Huntmaster] #5010820 03/08/14 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Huntmaster
Boys, you better take a close look around-the reptile population is on the brink. No toads, no lizards, no mountain boomers, no water snakes in the willows under a tank dam, no bees, and no quail.


I'm still eat up with reptiles. All the way from rattlebugs to indigos to horned toads.


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Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: therancher] #5011257 03/08/14 02:49 PM
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You're one if the lucky ones-by most accounts, by people in the know, there are great concerns on all if those.

Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: Huntmaster] #5011327 03/08/14 03:53 PM
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Certainly not a theory but I remember the 2005 season when we moved 20 coveys a day pretty often around Matador, I saw more jack rabbits in the bar ditches and moved about as many as we did coveys during the hunts. I haven't seen nearly that many since and really very few..

Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: Huntmaster] #5012870 03/09/14 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Huntmaster
You're one if the lucky ones-by most accounts, by people in the know, there are great concerns on all if those.


We don't even discuss the Atwater prairie chicken anymore. They're all but gone. I don't extinction will happen to the bobwhite quail because they are so easy to raise in pens.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5021342 03/14/14 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Actually modern farming is less distrubing then old school farming. We are much more consequence of soil erosion, so more hedges/rows are left, more crop residue via no-till drilling. Also up to last year CRP program had expanded 10x in size. To enter in the CRP program you have to have previous crop output history

Even with quicker maturing plants I don't see that as that big of an impact. Quail will use crop edges but sledom venture to the middle, espeically with in row crop plants. To open up top


Farmland was a poor word choice. Not pointing fingers at farmers. Just land in general that used to be wild is now being mowed, plowed, etc. Trying to say that the land is better off one way or the is not my argument. What I was getting at is just think about the number of farms, ranches, homesteads now they are smaller and more divided.True farming operations might use less land but think about how many more people own small plots and how many more tractors there are today than 50 years ago. Im sure the numbers would be staggering. People get to a place and want to clean it up, have a big old yard, clear out the brush whichever and it has drastically changed the landscape of today's Texas because every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a tractor, mower, or clears the land and it compounds over time. Ive cleared contiguous pastures that my grandfather cleared. It took him years mostly by hand. My dad continued his work probably doubled his efforts in less time with a small tractor and I will probably triple my dads efforts in my lifetime. it If there was 5 people per square mile in a given county who lived on some land 50 years ago and now its up to 30 think about how much that changes the landscape especially with modern equipment. Chainsaws, brush-hogs, deforesters, not to mention what the oil companies wipe out when they come through. Then you start adding the numbers of livestock living on those cleared pastures and their effect on habitat. So many factors but Im ready for a change in legality on shooting hawks for quail management at least.


Originally Posted By: beaversnipe
Never used photoshop and never will. Photoshop is for liberals.


Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: 817cd] #5025733 03/17/14 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: 817cd
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Actually modern farming is less distrubing then old school farming. We are much more consequence of soil erosion, so more hedges/rows are left, more crop residue via no-till drilling. Also up to last year CRP program had expanded 10x in size. To enter in the CRP program you have to have previous crop output history

Even with quicker maturing plants I don't see that as that big of an impact. Quail will use crop edges but sledom venture to the middle, espeically with in row crop plants. To open up top


Farmland was a poor word choice. Not pointing fingers at farmers. Just land in general that used to be wild is now being mowed, plowed, etc. Trying to say that the land is better off one way or the is not my argument. What I was getting at is just think about the number of farms, ranches, homesteads now they are smaller and more divided.True farming operations might use less land but think about how many more people own small plots and how many more tractors there are today than 50 years ago. Im sure the numbers would be staggering. People get to a place and want to clean it up, have a big old yard, clear out the brush whichever and it has drastically changed the landscape of today's Texas because every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a tractor, mower, or clears the land and it compounds over time. Ive cleared contiguous pastures that my grandfather cleared. It took him years mostly by hand. My dad continued his work probably doubled his efforts in less time with a small tractor and I will probably triple my dads efforts in my lifetime. it If there was 5 people per square mile in a given county who lived on some land 50 years ago and now its up to 30 think about how much that changes the landscape especially with modern equipment. Chainsaws, brush-hogs, deforesters, not to mention what the oil companies wipe out when they come through. Then you start adding the numbers of livestock living on those cleared pastures and their effect on habitat. So many factors but Im ready for a change in legality on shooting hawks for quail management at least.


I'll agree with you 100% on overgrazing (ruins habitat AND exposes surviving quail to raptors), and monoculture hay/farm fields. But, overall "deforestation" should help quail, especially how they are doing it in east Texas now. Just mowing everything down. For several years after that happens it becomes awesome quail habitat. And the timber companies ain't selling or subdividing.

Subdividing didn't hurt the southeastern states where my dad grew up 80 years ago. Alabama and Georgia were covered up in quail and it was virtually all small farms. Lots of people farming to survive in the early 1900's should have been terrible for quail if that was the problem.

And subdivision doesn't explain the decline in the areas that are not subdivided below 1,000 acres (which is most of Texas).


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: 817cd] #5026591 03/18/14 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: 817cd
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Actually modern farming is less distrubing then old school farming. We are much more consequence of soil erosion, so more hedges/rows are left, more crop residue via no-till drilling. Also up to last year CRP program had expanded 10x in size. To enter in the CRP program you have to have previous crop output history

Even with quicker maturing plants I don't see that as that big of an impact. Quail will use crop edges but sledom venture to the middle, espeically with in row crop plants. To open up top


Farmland was a poor word choice. Not pointing fingers at farmers. Just land in general that used to be wild is now being mowed, plowed, etc. Trying to say that the land is better off one way or the is not my argument. What I was getting at is just think about the number of farms, ranches, homesteads now they are smaller and more divided.True farming operations might use less land but think about how many more people own small plots and how many more tractors there are today than 50 years ago. Im sure the numbers would be staggering. People get to a place and want to clean it up, have a big old yard, clear out the brush whichever and it has drastically changed the landscape of today's Texas because every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a tractor, mower, or clears the land and it compounds over time. Ive cleared contiguous pastures that my grandfather cleared. It took him years mostly by hand. My dad continued his work probably doubled his efforts in less time with a small tractor and I will probably triple my dads efforts in my lifetime. it If there was 5 people per square mile in a given county who lived on some land 50 years ago and now its up to 30 think about how much that changes the landscape especially with modern equipment. Chainsaws, brush-hogs, deforesters, not to mention what the oil companies wipe out when they come through. Then you start adding the numbers of livestock living on those cleared pastures and their effect on habitat. So many factors but Im ready for a change in legality on shooting hawks for quail management at least.


I see less farm land utilization than I did 30 years ago, also we are at historically low cattle numbers.

I use to be able to find 10-15 coveys a day on family land in north eastern oklahoma, now maybe two coverys. That lands been in my family in some form for over 70 years, and operations haven't changed.

Just think there is more too it. The one thing that has changed is Aerial and ground predator numbers.

Similar thing on my ranch in western oklahoma, blues are almost gone. Same cattle numbers/per rain fall and rotational grazing pattern for the last 60 years,


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Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5028501 03/19/14 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: 817cd
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Actually modern farming is less distrubing then old school farming. We are much more consequence of soil erosion, so more hedges/rows are left, more crop residue via no-till drilling. Also up to last year CRP program had expanded 10x in size. To enter in the CRP program you have to have previous crop output history

Even with quicker maturing plants I don't see that as that big of an impact. Quail will use crop edges but sledom venture to the middle, espeically with in row crop plants. To open up top


Farmland was a poor word choice. Not pointing fingers at farmers. Just land in general that used to be wild is now being mowed, plowed, etc. Trying to say that the land is better off one way or the is not my argument. What I was getting at is just think about the number of farms, ranches, homesteads now they are smaller and more divided.True farming operations might use less land but think about how many more people own small plots and how many more tractors there are today than 50 years ago. Im sure the numbers would be staggering. People get to a place and want to clean it up, have a big old yard, clear out the brush whichever and it has drastically changed the landscape of today's Texas because every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a tractor, mower, or clears the land and it compounds over time. Ive cleared contiguous pastures that my grandfather cleared. It took him years mostly by hand. My dad continued his work probably doubled his efforts in less time with a small tractor and I will probably triple my dads efforts in my lifetime. it If there was 5 people per square mile in a given county who lived on some land 50 years ago and now its up to 30 think about how much that changes the landscape especially with modern equipment. Chainsaws, brush-hogs, deforesters, not to mention what the oil companies wipe out when they come through. Then you start adding the numbers of livestock living on those cleared pastures and their effect on habitat. So many factors but Im ready for a change in legality on shooting hawks for quail management at least.


I see less farm land utilization than I did 30 years ago, also we are at historically low cattle numbers.

I use to be able to find 10-15 coveys a day on family land in north eastern oklahoma, now maybe two coverys. That lands been in my family in some form for over 70 years, and operations haven't changed.

Just think there is more too it. The one thing that has changed is Aerial and ground predator numbers.

Similar thing on my ranch in western oklahoma, blues are almost gone. Same cattle numbers/per rain fall and rotational grazing pattern for the last 60 years,


Overgrazing is one thing but timely flashed grazed pastures is almost a must with quail habitat... cattle can be a great tool for any wildlife management if seasonal grazing is done right

Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: therancher] #5028684 03/19/14 05:50 PM
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A Mother quail can make a living for her clutch by taking them up and down a cow path picking off insects, and then dodging into the deep grass when threatened.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: Navasot] #5028762 03/19/14 06:35 PM
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BOBO the Clown Offline
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: 817cd
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Actually modern farming is less distrubing then old school farming. We are much more consequence of soil erosion, so more hedges/rows are left, more crop residue via no-till drilling. Also up to last year CRP program had expanded 10x in size. To enter in the CRP program you have to have previous crop output history

Even with quicker maturing plants I don't see that as that big of an impact. Quail will use crop edges but sledom venture to the middle, espeically with in row crop plants. To open up top


Farmland was a poor word choice. Not pointing fingers at farmers. Just land in general that used to be wild is now being mowed, plowed, etc. Trying to say that the land is better off one way or the is not my argument. What I was getting at is just think about the number of farms, ranches, homesteads now they are smaller and more divided.True farming operations might use less land but think about how many more people own small plots and how many more tractors there are today than 50 years ago. Im sure the numbers would be staggering. People get to a place and want to clean it up, have a big old yard, clear out the brush whichever and it has drastically changed the landscape of today's Texas because every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a tractor, mower, or clears the land and it compounds over time. Ive cleared contiguous pastures that my grandfather cleared. It took him years mostly by hand. My dad continued his work probably doubled his efforts in less time with a small tractor and I will probably triple my dads efforts in my lifetime. it If there was 5 people per square mile in a given county who lived on some land 50 years ago and now its up to 30 think about how much that changes the landscape especially with modern equipment. Chainsaws, brush-hogs, deforesters, not to mention what the oil companies wipe out when they come through. Then you start adding the numbers of livestock living on those cleared pastures and their effect on habitat. So many factors but Im ready for a change in legality on shooting hawks for quail management at least.


I see less farm land utilization than I did 30 years ago, also we are at historically low cattle numbers.

I use to be able to find 10-15 coveys a day on family land in north eastern oklahoma, now maybe two coverys. That lands been in my family in some form for over 70 years, and operations haven't changed.

Just think there is more too it. The one thing that has changed is Aerial and ground predator numbers.

Similar thing on my ranch in western oklahoma, blues are almost gone. Same cattle numbers/per rain fall and rotational grazing pattern for the last 60 years,


Overgrazing is one thing but timely flashed grazed pastures is almost a must with quail habitat... cattle can be a great tool for any wildlife management if seasonal grazing is done right


But kind of the point I was making up until 3 years ago we didn't ever have any over grazing on either ranch. Just cant up there or your top soil blows away, nor can you keep any soil moisture.

Toss in CRP expansion aand it ups habitat.

Now last three years is different due to severe drought and new CRP regulation on must graze or hay one year out of the program length


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: therancher] #5028770 03/19/14 06:39 PM
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Right lol I was agreeing with you

Re: I have a theory on quail decline. [Re: Navasot] #5028838 03/19/14 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
Right lol I was agreeing with you


Ya, I over read it..lol!!! cheers

I just wish we could pin point it, define it and fix it


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