The barometer we used back in the 60,70 and 80's was Broomweed. When we had a great year on them we had a great quail year. The ranch I hunted in the 80's was in southeastern Atascosa and they always had good native grass and broomweed cover. The owner had large open areas scattered around on the ranch that he shredded once a year to suppress mesquite and it really helped the grass and weed growth. It had a lot of quail also.

pesticides, loss of natural habitat and fire ants

We have a bunch of hawks we also have corn/protein feeders and a bunch of quail.

Unfortunately we have had several hawks and owls take up residence in our deer blinds for a time. Never found remnants of birds in the blinds, but there are always countless half eaten rats mice and an occasional snake.

From what I have read I would believe that most of the decline is from fire ants and habitat loss. Our biologist told us if we wanted to keep our quail don't let the place grow up as thick as it will if you just let it go, that it would chase them off.

[quote=redchevy]We have a bunch of hawks we also have corn/protein feeders and a bunch of quail.

Unfortunately we have had several hawks and owls take up residence in our deer blinds for a time. Never found remnants of birds in the blinds, but there are always countless half eaten rats mice and an occasional snake.

From what I have read I would believe that most of the decline is from fire ants and habitat loss. Our biologist told us if we wanted to keep our quail don't let the place grow up as thick as it will if you just let it go, that it would chase them off. [/quote

I've never seen hawks nest in blinds. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it. Owls are always the blind rooster/nesters where I'm from. Since they hunt at night they don't eat quail so you wouldn't see that in their droppings.

I don't think there's been many recent studies on raptor predation other than the one that the girl did that is linked on this thread. And if her data and the previous study's data is correct, they imply that raptors in fact are a large contributing cause to the decline in that area.

Another thing I've noticed in the Big Lake area was that in the best quail years, we always had a TON of rabbits and other rodents. If those animals are easily available, then it stands to reason that they would be a higher % of raptor diets.

We had a good year this year and we had more rabbits than the past several years. 2004,2005,2006 we were covered up in rabbits and quail.

Loss of natural habitat is what did it here... our river bottom use to be covered in quail and then came more and more hay fields along with a lot of big property's starting to sell pieces off one at a time... ranches that use to be owned by 1 family houses dozens now

crazy how much continuous habitat they need to stay at a healthy turnover rate.. and yalls country is about all that's left and hope its stays that way... imo quail have seen their time in 85-90% of TX and its not long until wild flocks are rare... really sucks to see

I only recall 1 hawk in the blind, the rest have been owls.

We do have more hawks than I can shake a stick at though. I do find piles of quail feathers in trails while walking around, I would assume its bobcats or yotes, wouldn't think a hawk would sit down in a very close quarters brushy trail to eat, most cary them ontop of our blinds or metal building to eat.

I still think fire ants is the major thing. We don't have any in our area.

Habitat and natural food sources are the key to good quail populations. Predators have always been around to keep populations in check and improve the breeding stock. The problem is that we have created environments through our "modern" methods that favor predators and not the indigenous wildlife. Predators are increasing at a rate that the local wildlife cannot sustain themselves. But, in most cases, when food sources for predators are depleted they tend to move on or regulate their own reproduction. One source of predation not mentioned here are fire ants. I think you will find that in an area where fire ants abound the ground dwelling species will suffer due to fire ant attacks on the young. I even know of at least one case where fire ants killed and consumed a new born calf in just a matter of hours. They are land dwelling piranhas.

I have fire ants here and I have quail. I sat in a deer blind in Atascosa County in the 80's and watched Blue Darter/Coopers Hawk work quail and catch them weekend after weekend when I hunted there. I watched that hawk get on the ground in thick white brush to flush up a covey that had retreated to safety off the road only to then fly after them and catch one in mid-flight. I sat in a blind in La Salle county on a tank dam one day watching doves come to water during deer season only to watch a Coopers Hawk single out one dove out of 100's and fly in and catch it. I happened so quick if I had not been paying attention I would have missed and only heard the doves flush. I watched it pluck feathers off then eat the breast out of the dove. I walked over at dark to check it out.
I think it is not one single thing that is leading to the demise of quail but a combination lot of things all happening now that have all contributed to quail population problems. Look at what has changed with farming, ranching and wildlife over the last 40 yrs and you will see the trends that have fallen in place.

I have seen the hawks catch a few dove in flight. Cant say I have ever seen one catch a quail, but don't doubt it.

The quail population we see fluctuates with rain in years when we have good rain they are almost a nuisances and dry years you don't see as many. Ill agree with the its not one thing all on its own.

in the late 70's and early 80s we had plenty of quail here and hawks but when the fireants moved in after the grass farms were getting cranked up the quail numbers dropped so much so that i havent seen a quail around here in over 5 years and when i did it was only a couple of them...the hawks may be a problem in yalls neck of the woods and they may be here to an extent but the fire ants and lack of natural environment around here in my eyes is what led to this....we used to have them everywhere

Are you talking about Blues or Bobwhites? I am talking about Bobwhites. Ranch I was on in La Salle had tons of Blues with rain or without. We had fireants and lots of protein feeders(25). What I did do was trap coyotes, bobcats and coons. We had raptors and hawks but not as bad as some places. That ranch did not have good grass cover from years of over grazing. We rested it for 3 yrs I was there and the Bobwhite made a really good comeback along the grassy drainage's. Still they were only around 25% of the quail population on the 5100 acres.

We only have bobs. We have exceptional grass cover for the most part because there has not been stock on the place since 2007.

We shoot coyotes and bobcats when we see them, but that amounts to very little. We have been unsuccessful at trapping any of them (I personally feel like we have a high number of yotes). Its been a somewhat dry year for us, guess I'd call it average. I chased up a covey of more than 20 the last time I was down and 2 coveys over 5 or 6 just walking 1/2 a mile to one of the blinds.

If TPWD really wanted a good managed lands place id think they would do great by raising them on the barrier islands like of Port O and such... perfect grasslands for them and very little predators.. they are just so easy to kill off out there is why they would have to do drawn hunts or somthing

I keep this picture in my library for when people blame the decline on fire ants. I don't like those suckers either, but we have fire ants and quail. Look at the size of the fire ant bed in the lower right corner;

Looks like Dale Rollins may agree with you:

Operation Transfusion Update

Operation Transfusion, a research project investigating the translocation of wild-trapped bobwhites into recently depopulated areas, has entered its second year. During March 2013, 202 wild bobwhites were translocated to a ranch located on the Stephens and Shackelford county line. Of these, 95 females were radio-collared and monitored year-round. As of February 14th 2014, 71% of the radio-collared females have died, 13% are alive, 8% are missing and 8% of the collars failed. About half of the mortalities have been identified as raptor kills and 33.0% have been attributed to mammals. This week will kick off the trapping season for March 2014. We will trap wild bobwhites from 11 ranches across the Rolling Plains in an effort to move 200 bobwhites this March. We are hopeful that the 2014 nesting season will be as productive as 2013. During 2013, 72 nests were initiated with a success rate of 41.7%. The nesting rate (nests/females alive as of May 1st) was 1.2 and the average clutch size was 12 eggs during 2013. We will continue to investigate survival, reproduction, site fidelity and local relative abundance of bobwhites as the project progresses.

I'm sure you have fireants and quail but do you have the rain that supports a crazy fireant population. I had a huge bobwhite population on my ranch all through the 70's and 80's. Nothing changed in the way of farming practices from then till now. In 1990 fireants invaded my ranch and within two years they were all dead. No quail from 1992 to the present. Same thing with meadow larks. Except for cold days it is impossible to sit on the ground for any length of time without getting nailed by fireants. Eastern Bosque County.

Some of the dryer years are the best in the coastal bend area. We want weeds, not grass.

I personally feel its a combo of ariel and ground predators.

Two big things banning of DDT and loss or softening of fur market/goverement trapping.

Banning of DDT and protection has brought back the ariel predators to all time highs. The soft fur market and less trapping has brought back high numbers of ground predators (skunks, yotes, coons, foxs, bob cats, feral cats, etc)

People fire ants are a very very small % of kills off quail... pretty much everything eats them or the eggs... and I mean everything... iv found armadillos digging up nest... and yeah until the bird of prey laws are backed off of which they wont be...its gona be only a matter of time for the quail

Seems like you are danged if you keep the feeders going and danged if you don't keep the feeders going. We notice fewer birds when we shut down the feeders than we do when we keep the feeders going.

Well there you go...little rain keeps fireants down deep and keeps them from working the ground thus, more quail. Common sense really.

I think the raptor issue ought to be addressed. They are totally protected and their numbers have come back to acceptable levels. I don't know what preys on muskrat but I bet their big drop in numbers might be predator related, just like quail.
It is an issue. First there is a species like the wolf that is a problem and gets hunted to near extinction. Then the decision is made to save it. The creature then rebounds back to normal levels but then goes back to being the problem that it was in the first place. Usually the wildlife people aren't to blame, they set target populations, it's the politicians, once an animal becomes protected it is a one way street.

I hunt near the goose hunting Capitol of the world. Hawks can make a good living on crippled geese in my area.