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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: mrbigtexan]
#464692
10/28/08 12:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 510
kktjhahn
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 510 |
Well I am not shooting over anyone, would I dog cuss them, probably. They have put about 40 head of heifers with week to 4 week old calves, the place is full of yotes so I guess that is why they are checking every day. As I stated in the beginning opening morning of bow I was in the stand a good hour before daylight and at exactly 7:04 they came rattling in with 4 trucks with 24 foot goosenecks behind every one right down through the middle of the place and then set off a siren of sorts that I guess they call in the cows with. This siren went on for 27 minutes because I timed it. I complained to the broker and he said we needed to just let them know when we were going to be there. I did and they still come rolling in. Most of the remote places you can only get to by foot due to the terrain, which I will, but I cant get a 10 yr old in there and set up and comfortable and happy. I will right this off, yes it was quite a bit of money but I am sure I will take something off of there before the year is over. As I said I did not do my homework and I only blame myself.
'You can all go to hell. I'm going to Texas'
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464693
10/28/08 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 110,802 |
Quote:
Nope. Under the law the lessor cannot stop the lesse from enjoying the land for it's intended purpose. It's breach on contract and he will lose in court.
Being in a rural county, a local is going to win most of the time regardless of what the law is. If the landowner has the established practice of checking the cattle this way I doubt the hunter could even win in a downtown Dallas court.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: dogcatcher]
#464694
10/29/08 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
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So what you're telling me is that the people in a rural county including officer of the court are incapable of understanding the law or basic fairness and would automatically rule in the landowners favor? Hmmmmm. In reality a plaintiff can sue anywhere he so chooses, even better if the lease was paid for by his local bank. The plantiff can ask for a summary judgment without even a trial and if it's cut and dry this can and will happen. Perhaps the best course of action would be for all members of the lease together to have the case heard in JP court where this would happen. Again, once a property is leased there is a loss of control over said property and the lesse has the complete right to enjoyment of said property for the purpose of which the lease was intended. The landowner will lose. If the plaintiff can show there was intent to defraud as well it can ugly for the landowner.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464695
10/29/08 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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You need some exposure to the real country world. The lease agreement is to hunt deer, I doubt if there is anything in the lease agreement that the rancher must stop or slow down his cattle operation. The cattle operation brings in a lot more cash flow than a deer lease. Next if that is his standard practice of operating his cattle operation the rancher will win based on the prior practice, fairness is a moral issue. You forget that landowners are greedy, worthless, ruthless land barons with no heart. Tick the rancher off and another piece of property comes out of the hunting lease pool of land available. Less supply means higher prices for the remaining ranchers. Been there and done that and have the land to prove it
Now come up with your what "if" scenarios. Most likely they won't float either. Been there and done that too. It also comes with the privilege of membership in the THF-OFC.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464696
10/29/08 02:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592 |
Quote:
So what you're telling me is that the people in a rural county including officer of the court are incapable of understanding the law or basic fairness and would automatically rule in the landowners favor? Hmmmmm. In reality a plaintiff can sue anywhere he so chooses, even better if the lease was paid for by his local bank. The plantiff can ask for a summary judgment without even a trial and if it's cut and dry this can and will happen. Perhaps the best course of action would be for all members of the lease together to have the case heard in JP court where this would happen. Again, once a property is leased there is a loss of control over said property and the lesse has the complete right to enjoyment of said property for the purpose of which the lease was intended. The landowner will lose. If the plaintiff can show there was intent to defraud as well it can ugly for the landowner.
Here we go again Sabrina  The land owner would only lose IF the contract stated that no one else was allowed on the property while it was being hunted by the lessee. I highly doubt that it is in the contract, and highly doubt that the land owner would agree to loose his access to his own land. That land is being used for more then just hunting, and hunting is probley only a 10th of the total income. You never loose control unless you give it a way. Even cattle leases and mineral lease won't take away the owners access rights. As a lessee you are gaining access to the property, you do not own it and can not make the rules, you have no legal authority, and even contracts are only limited authority.
If you take the land owner to court, consider your hunting season done. I think there are better options. 
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#464697
10/29/08 03:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 135
tjbailey1967
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 135 |
im lucky we have three oil wells on our place, we came to an agreement with the oil company. they come in during the middle of the day during hunting season, except for and emergency of course.
ALL MEN NEED 3 1/2 THINGS
GOD
A GOOD WOMAN
TIME IN THE FIELD
1/2 A CHANCE
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464698
10/29/08 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,304
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,304 |
Quote:
So what you're telling me is that the people in a rural county including officer of the court are incapable of understanding the law or basic fairness and would automatically rule in the landowners favor? Hmmmmm. In reality a plaintiff can sue anywhere he so chooses, even better if the lease was paid for by his local bank. The plantiff can ask for a summary judgment without even a trial and if it's cut and dry this can and will happen. Perhaps the best course of action would be for all members of the lease together to have the case heard in JP court where this would happen. Again, once a property is leased there is a loss of control over said property and the lesse has the complete right to enjoyment of said property for the purpose of which the lease was intended. The landowner will lose. If the plaintiff can show there was intent to defraud as well it can ugly for the landowner.
You are full of whooey. The landowner will never lose rights to check on his stock because you brought some silly lawsuit. It would never make it to court by the end of the lease time and the most the leasee is going to get is his lease money back. Best way is to talk to the landowner. If this does not work find the most inaccessible place on the ranch and set up shop and leave before next year comes around. When you start telling rural people how to walk, talk, judge, think, another form of justice might end up in your lap. I am not saying that it is right, I am just saying it might happen.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BenBob]
#464699
10/29/08 03:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 135
tjbailey1967
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 135 |
agree,thing's could get allot worse.
ALL MEN NEED 3 1/2 THINGS
GOD
A GOOD WOMAN
TIME IN THE FIELD
1/2 A CHANCE
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: tjbailey1967]
#464700
10/29/08 05:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592 |
Quote:
agree,thing's could get allot worse.
yelp, if the owner wanted to completely lock you out he can via law. You can call the sheriff or who ever you want. Guess what they will tell you( See a lawyer, they only enforce the law not intrupt it)You only option to gain access would be to go to court, in the mean time your out a place to hunt, and second how much money are you willing to spend to have lawyers agrue what the contract states or how it reads, then there is the what if??? the what if you lose and now your paying two lawyers fees.
Find a way to work with the land owner. If you can't i'd look for another place. IMO
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#464701
10/29/08 11:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,521
Earl
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,521 |
I can only advise you what I would do and that would be to find another place - and ask the landowner for a partial refund for the year since you did not lease with the understanding that your hunts would be ruined.
They obviously have no care for their hunters or for their hunts, I'd go elsewhere.
I email my landowner each week twice - once with my plans and the 2nd time with my gamecam photos as he likes to see what's there. They do not work the land/cattle during the times I'm there, and only occassionally drop by after the morning hunt to see how it went (maybe 2 or 3 times during the season). He hunts once or twice during the year but allways works it out with me beforehand and this was understood when I leased the place. They also plant a couple of food plots for me and keep my feeder areas fenced for me. This arrangement has worked great for me. Maybe your landowner will work with you but I'd be concerned since they came out and worked the cattle even when they knew you were going to be there. Perhaps the landowner and the ones doing the work aren't one and the same? If that is the case, perhaps the landowner will give you their contact info too and you could let them also know your plans. Maybe the landowner had failed to notify them.
I also notify my landowners Uncle with all of my email notifications as he is the one that has the cattle on the place and is the one that actually gets out there a few times a week to work the cattle.
Earl
Last edited by Earl; 10/29/08 11:53 PM.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/BQY4Hjvq/10pt3-1.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/155y8GsC/big10down2.jpg)
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BenBob]
#464702
10/30/08 12:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935 |
Dead wrong. You can get into JP court within 6 to 8 weeks. You will get your money back with a very high possiblity of damages. If it goes to court you're dead in the water. Inner city juries are enamored with White men in cowboy hats with big belt buckles. The landowner is stupid to pursue it. He loses just on the basis of defending it.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464703
10/30/08 01:12 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592 |
Quote:
Dead wrong. You can get into JP court within 6 to 8 weeks. You will get your money back with a very high possiblity of damages. If it goes to court you're dead in the water. Inner city juries are enamored with White men in cowboy hats with big belt buckles. The landowner is stupid to pursue it. He loses just on the basis of defending it.
Again only if the contract states certian things. Thats the problem with contracts... you have to be very specific. Also if your contract doesn't have a specific agreed on restitution for breech it leaves a lot of grey area. Guess what... grey cost you.... Lawyer fees and a chance that you may not recover any damages.
Again best thing to do is try to work with the land owner. Remember any time to take something to court you take the risk of losing and that could be a double whammy.
Last edited by jgiles; 10/30/08 01:53 AM.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464704
10/30/08 01:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 110,802 |
I would guess this landowner has been before the courts before on this same issue. He probably knows the law inside and out and how far he can push the issue. If you want to find out see if you can lease this place next year, we would all like to hear your outcome after going through the legal system. The place will be for lease so you better jump on it or better yet why not sublease for the rest of the year. With all of the damages you think you will collect you should be able to lease it long term and pay for it out of the court settlement.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: dogcatcher]
#464705
10/30/08 01:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
Tracker
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Tracker
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The landowner will have to reimburse the costs to the lesse. He will also have to defend the case and most likely have to pay court costs. It's stupid and so is he if he pursues this.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464706
10/30/08 01:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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If you are so sure of that you should jump on this and get some of that easy money from the landowner.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464707
10/30/08 01:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592 |
Quote:
The landowner will have to reimburse the costs to the lesse. He will also have to defend the case and most likely have to pay court costs. It's stupid and so is he if he pursues this.
Did you read any of my posts?  Nevermind I already know the anwser. Carry on
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#464708
10/30/08 01:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 110,802 |
Jgiles, I think Sabrinavonbach has one of what we used to call outhouse law degrees. The degree paper must have been needed for more "important" things.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#464709
10/30/08 01:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935 |
Wrong. The lesse cannnot be prevented from using the land for it's intended purpose. This is what the law states.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: dogcatcher]
#464710
10/30/08 01:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935 |
Already have big boy. I made the landowner pay out his a$$. He regretted ever meeting me.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464711
10/30/08 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 110,802 |
Then here is another chance to make the landowner payout his a$$, better jump on it.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: dogcatcher]
#464712
10/30/08 02:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935 |
Take it to JP court and we'll see who pays. Chances are very good the landowner will reimburse the hunters.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#464713
10/30/08 02:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592 |
Quote:
Wrong. The lesse cannnot be prevented from using the land for it's intended purpose. This is what the law states.
What is wrong???? You not getting what I'm saying about contracts not being as black and white as they seem. They can be if written very well, yes, but again unless the contract says anything about cattle and when or when they can't or can be checked then its a null point.
He is getting to hunt it and has access to the whole property. The question is wether he can determine or restrict the access by the owner or owners employees. If its not in a contract then he can't. I got an idea why don't you back him with money in his efforts if it goes to court.
Best of luck, I hope everything works out for him, and I hope this was an isolated incident. Threating a law suit will automatically stop all good faith communication, and it a done deal from that point on.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#464714
10/30/08 02:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,281
BlackSnake
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,281 |
Quote:
Quote:
Dead wrong. You can get into JP court within 6 to 8 weeks. You will get your money back with a very high possiblity of damages. If it goes to court you're dead in the water. Inner city juries are enamored with White men in cowboy hats with big belt buckles. The landowner is stupid to pursue it. He loses just on the basis of defending it.
Again only if the contract states certian things. Thats the problem with contracts... you have to be very specific. Also if your contract doesn't have a specific agreed on restitution for breech it leaves a lot of grey area. Guess what... grey cost you.... Lawyer fees and a chance that you may not recover any damages.
Again best thing to do is try to work with the land owner. Remember any time to take something to court you take the risk of losing and that could be a double whammy.
I don't know, but isn't this kind of like renting a home to someone and be in it all the time checking on light bulbs, plumbing and such? I mean, I would feel like something could be don't if he were in the house all the time.
Just a thought.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BlackSnake]
#464715
10/30/08 02:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,592 |
nope, habitation laws are different.
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Re: worst lease ever/what would you do
[Re: BlackSnake]
#464716
10/30/08 02:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Dead wrong. You can get into JP court within 6 to 8 weeks. You will get your money back with a very high possiblity of damages. If it goes to court you're dead in the water. Inner city juries are enamored with White men in cowboy hats with big belt buckles. The landowner is stupid to pursue it. He loses just on the basis of defending it.
Again only if the contract states certian things. Thats the problem with contracts... you have to be very specific. Also if your contract doesn't have a specific agreed on restitution for breech it leaves a lot of grey area. Guess what... grey cost you.... Lawyer fees and a chance that you may not recover any damages.
Again best thing to do is try to work with the land owner. Remember any time to take something to court you take the risk of losing and that could be a double whammy.
I don't know, but isn't this kind of like renting a home to someone and be in it all the time checking on light bulbs, plumbing and such? I mean, I would feel like something could be don't if he were in the house all the time.
Just a thought.
To use your analogy, it would be like leasing the bathroom rights to a house not the whole house full time. Does that make any sense? As a hunter you are only leasing the hunting rights.
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