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Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... #3423128 07/30/12 03:58 AM
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Rolled up on a herd of 13 pigs yesterday while checking cows, and put the biggest sow down with head shot (actually eye shot) at 270 yards using my 6.8SPC and 110gr Ballistic Tip Hornady V-Max Loads. Sow went straight down and I thought she was DRT. Spent 45 mins tracking down and dispatching two other pigs. When I got back to the big sow she had stood up and was walking in a tight circle right where I left left her,and was making a low growling sound. Looked and acted like a Zombie pig IMO.. and no I don’t have pic’s… sorry. Was totally amazed she wasn’t dead being shot in the head. After putting her down for good I inspected the head shot and saw that it hit right on the edge of the orbital bone. Looks like the bullet blew her eye out and then did a frontal piggy lobotomy on her brain. I’m not impressed at all with this round, accurate as heck, but fragging on impact with bone like that makes it worthless on pigs as far as I’m concerned.

Any suggestions on a 6.8spc load that won’t break the bank? And isn’t a ballistic tip?



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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: dkershen] #3423321 07/30/12 07:54 AM
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If you hit the orbital bone, you should not have needed the round to stay together to do the damage needed. It sounds like your trajectory was off. A more solid bullet may have simply deflected if you hit the edge.

I shot a young boar in the head with a .308 at 75 yads that took out a chunk of skull, exited skull right, and punched a nice round hole through the ear.

The point is if the shot does not land correctly given the angles, you can have weird stuff happen. My pig dropped and was dead, but not because the bullet went through the brain. It missed the brain...completely. BFT apparently killed the pig.



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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Double Naught Spy] #3423322 07/30/12 07:55 AM
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Otherwise, go with Barnes solid copper projectiles.



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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Double Naught Spy] #3423340 07/30/12 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Otherwise, go with Barnes solid copper projectiles.

up




"It is the same boiling water that softens the rice, which hardens the egg." It's not always about the circumstances, but what you are made of....
Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Double Naught Spy] #3423400 07/30/12 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Otherwise, go with Barnes solid copper projectiles.


Big barns TSX fan, but have not seen anybody load it in a 6.8spc.



To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: dkershen] #3423413 07/30/12 12:13 PM
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Yeah, the VMax isn't worth much when it comes to hogs. I use the Barnes 110gr TSX or Hornadys 120gr SST. No more zombie pigs. wink


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: eneat1119] #3423446 07/30/12 12:30 PM
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Sorry, I was sort of doing the zombie thing when I posted last night. TSX is what I did have in mind. I bought them for .223 loaded by Silver State Armory and have been pleased with accuracy, but haven't seen a hog in 2 months at my place to shoot. I don't think I have seen a single bad review of Barnes TSX and assumed they should be good for 6.8.

Here are a couple of hogs I shot with .45-70, 30-35 yards, with Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr. ammo. Both were younger boars shot 30 minutes apart, the second boar shot examining its dead partner. The first was smaller and shot at the base of the ear. He dropped. The round exited the opposite side on the neck. Massive brain/skull damage - not! Clipped the bottom of the skull nicely at the brain stem and broke it off, but I was expecting the round to go through the brain. The round managed to hit where the top of the mandible would almost be, but the mandible was unharmed.





Second and larger pig was hit an inch forward and slightly down, ear folded over. Same expected result. Bullet exited opposite side of the neck. As the with the first, the trajectory was through the head, but it wasn't. I completely missed damaging the skull and mandible. I shot the hog in the side of the head near the ear and missed the whole fricking skull!!!

So my disucssion above about your trajectory being off wasn't meant as a criticism, but just to not how things can be off slightly and not go as intended even when you know you placed the shot beautifully. I certainly "knew" I did. One shot was perfect (I thought) and the other within an inch of the same place and things did not turn out as I expected other than both being DRT.






Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 07/30/12 01:11 PM.

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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Double Naught Spy] #3423532 07/30/12 01:02 PM
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http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8_spc_ammo-110_barnes_tsx_tactical_load.aspx

This is the load that works best in my limited research. I have shot little pigs with my 300 blackout vmax loads and they drop and then run off never to be found. Barnes is the way to go for sure!


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: FIREDAVIS] #3423860 07/30/12 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: FIREDAVIS
http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8_spc_ammo-110_barnes_tsx_tactical_load.aspx

This is the load that works best in my limited research. I have shot little pigs with my 300 blackout vmax loads and they drop and then run off never to be found. Barnes is the way to go for sure!


Bingo.. Just what I'm looking for. SSA was very smart to go to this combo, thanks for pointing it out. Just wish it where more reasonably priced. Hate kissing good-bye to a $30 bill every time I dump a mag.



To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: dkershen] #3423875 07/30/12 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: FIREDAVIS
http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8_spc_ammo-110_barnes_tsx_tactical_load.aspx

This is the load that works best in my limited research. I have shot little pigs with my 300 blackout vmax loads and they drop and then run off never to be found. Barnes is the way to go for sure!


Bingo.. Just what I'm looking for. SSA was very smart to go to this combo, thanks for pointing it out. Just wish it where more reasonably priced. Hate kissing good-bye to a $30 bill every time I dump a mag.


Just shoot straighter grin . I hate it myself but that is why I reload now. Here is a link to all the 6.8 ammo. The prohunter load will do better than the vmax for sure maybe try that before going to the barnes or buy a box of each.

http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8ammunitionsales.aspx


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: FIREDAVIS] #3423926 07/30/12 03:20 PM
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The Hornady SST does better than the Vmax as well. Not saying it's better than Barnes or any others, but just that I know it works well after seeing 50+ pigs shot with that 6.8 load. You'll have to shop around for sure, but it can generally be found around $25/box. As pointed out, the only way to go anywhere near 'cheap' with a 6.8 is to reload.



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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: eneat1119] #3424296 07/30/12 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: eneat1119
Yeah, the VMax isn't worth much when it comes to hogs. I use the Barnes 110gr TSX or Hornadys 120gr SST. No more zombie pigs. wink


x 2


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: pafree] #3425218 07/30/12 09:49 PM
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at 270 yards you retain maybe 900 ft lbs of energy, over a foot of drop and significant wind drift for a headshot. The shot represents above average marksmanship. Maybe the brand of bullet isnt the issue, you just wont get significant expansion out of any 6.8 at those ranges.


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Adelbridge] #3426013 07/31/12 01:11 AM
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Try these but you gotta buy a PRI mag to shoot em!

6.8_spc_ammo_140gr_VLD_Berger




Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Adelbridge] #3426723 07/31/12 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: Adelbridge
at 270 yards you retain maybe 900 ft lbs of energy, over a foot of drop and significant wind drift for a headshot. The shot represents above average marksmanship. Maybe the brand of bullet isnt the issue, you just wont get significant expansion out of any 6.8 at those ranges.


900 lbs is about right. I'm zero'd half an inch high at 200, and factored a 9 inch drop at 300. (range finder had the shot at 278 yrds) Had a rock solid rest and no wind. Held crosshairs on tip of her ears and let fly. Little luck and a little know how led to the eye socket hit. (BTW... 6.8spc drops like a rock out past 300yrds, so I know my limits with this round) All that said, I bet the TSX would have put her down on the exact same shot.



To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: dkershen] #3426817 07/31/12 04:25 AM
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Just remember, the "V" in VMAX stands for varmint, not hog. They're designed to blow up, period. The Barnes would be a good bullet, but for center-punching pigs in the head, a regular old fmj will do the trick...



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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Double Naught Spy] #3426869 07/31/12 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Sorry, I was sort of doing the zombie thing when I posted last night. TSX is what I did have in mind. I bought them for .223 loaded by Silver State Armory and have been pleased with accuracy, but haven't seen a hog in 2 months at my place to shoot. I don't think I have seen a single bad review of Barnes TSX and assumed they should be good for 6.8.

Here are a couple of hogs I shot with .45-70, 30-35 yards, with Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr. ammo. Both were younger boars shot 30 minutes apart, the second boar shot examining its dead partner. The first was smaller and shot at the base of the ear. He dropped. The round exited the opposite side on the neck. Massive brain/skull damage - not! Clipped the bottom of the skull nicely at the brain stem and broke it off, but I was expecting the round to go through the brain. The round managed to hit where the top of the mandible would almost be, but the mandible was unharmed.

Second and larger pig was hit an inch forward and slightly down, ear folded over. Same expected result. Bullet exited opposite side of the neck. As the with the first, the trajectory was through the head, but it wasn't. I completely missed damaging the skull and mandible. I shot the hog in the side of the head near the ear and missed the whole fricking skull!!!

So my disucssion above about your trajectory being off wasn't meant as a criticism, but just to not how things can be off slightly and not go as intended even when you know you placed the shot beautifully. I certainly "knew" I did. One shot was perfect (I thought) and the other within an inch of the same place and things did not turn out as I expected other than both being DRT.



Not intending to offend anyone with these thoughts.

Glad they were DRT but easily could have been different story on both piggies. The brain is higher on pigs than a lot of people would believe. I have seen people shoot hogs in traps that missed the brain and had to shoot again and again. For those reasons I rarely use headshots even though I know where the brain is and have never shot a pig in the head without destroying the brain if the hogs here were shot quartering the other way I doubt the story would have had as happy an ending.



lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: FIREDAVIS] #3427723 07/31/12 03:52 PM
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I have shot a 175lb boar at over 400 yards with 110vmax and killed him and another at 200 plus , Taken two axis does with neck shots a whitetail doe or two . They do tend to explode on impact tho. I did order some 120sst other day from midway for 19 a box with a Lil discount I had


Last edited by tannerlst; 07/31/12 03:58 PM.
Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: tannerlst] #3428407 07/31/12 06:51 PM
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Speaking of poor bullet performance...

I had a 190 yard shot at a sow last weekend and was armed with my rifle length AR and a 20 round mag of M855. I've put 5 out of 5 on a softball with M855 at that range, so I thought I would take a crack at it. I held the crosshairs in line with the sow's eyes and under the ear and waited until I had a comfortable shot. She dropped like she was brain hit so I took my eyes off the scope and picked up my brass. I heard squealing, looked up and she was trying to stand. I tried to get back on her for a second shot but it was too late. She was wobbly for a few steps, but gradually got stronger and was running full tilt after about 50 yards.

I found a small blood trail and was able to follow it for about 200 yards; one little drop every 20 yards or so. I wouldn't have been able to track at all except that she was following a game trail.

Anyway, I surmise that government ammo is fine at 100 yards or so (I've made the same shot with the same ammo at closer ranges and had good results) but considerably less fine at 200. I may as well have stabbed her with an ice pick. Maybe the buzzards will tell me where she is, but that's the first time I've ever not recovered an animal I shot and it feels pretty crappy.


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: Adelbridge] #3428910 07/31/12 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Adelbridge
at 270 yards you retain maybe 900 ft lbs of energy, over a foot of drop and significant wind drift for a headshot. The shot represents above average marksmanship. Maybe the brand of bullet isnt the issue, you just wont get significant expansion out of any 6.8 at those ranges.


The vmax will still explode/expand at 400+ yards






Bullet on left was from the 175 lb boar hit in the shoulder running at 400+ yards . It's about 32-35 inches of drop at 400 and I found this bullet just under the skin on exit side

Bullet on right was axis spike heart shot 90 yards


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: tannerlst] #3429523 07/31/12 11:03 PM
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I had the same problem with Remington Accutip 55g for .223. Super accurate (see pic) but terrible performance. Very small entrance wound, no exit, very little damage and NO blood trail. I'm trying Barnes, too.

100 yards, size of a quarter, 3 shots


Entrance wound is about 4" behind the frt leg. Very little blood. Only blood that hit the dirt was out of his mouth



Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: tannerlst] #3429914 08/01/12 12:25 AM
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The slower a bullet is going at impact the less upset (fragmentation) it will have. those varmit bullets will hold together better at long range than close in.

The sow shot and trailed for 200 yards, there is a good chance you will see her again some time. Lot of critters that are "dead" in reality have a painful recovery but do recover.

With good game bullets for 22cal and up, why are people still using varmit bullets for large critters? confused2



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Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: kmon11] #3431408 08/01/12 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: kmon1
The slower a bullet is going at impact the less upset (fragmentation) it will have. those varmit bullets will hold together better at long range than close in.

The sow shot and trailed for 200 yards, there is a good chance you will see her again some time. Lot of critters that are "dead" in reality have a painful recovery but do recover.

With good game bullets for 22cal and up, why are people still using varmit bullets for large critters? confused2
Cause most the time if your shot placement is good the vmax can do the trick, I haven't lost one animal I've shot with them. Everything from hogs to axis to whitetail, even a blackbuck , and tons of varmints . Luck maybe but I've used them with success . Are they the best bullet for the job ? No , but it's what I had laying around . Got some 120sst's on the way smile


Last edited by tannerlst; 08/01/12 11:09 AM.
Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: kmon11] #3432060 08/01/12 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: kmon1
The sow shot and trailed for 200 yards, there is a good chance you will see her again some time. Lot of critters that are "dead" in reality have a painful recovery but do recover.

With good game bullets for 22cal and up, why are people still using varmit bullets for large critters? confused2


She's the only bright red pig I've seen out there, so I'll know it if I do see her again.

I just bought a couple sleeves of Remington Premier Core-Lokt 62 grain for testing... We'll see how that does. The government stuff may just be my plinking ammo now.


Re: Zombie pig and sub-par bullet performance... [Re: GriffGruff78] #3435339 08/02/12 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Not intending to offend anyone with these thoughts.

Glad they were DRT but easily could have been different story on both piggies. The brain is higher on pigs than a lot of people would believe. I have seen people shoot hogs in traps that missed the brain and had to shoot again and again. For those reasons I rarely use headshots even though I know where the brain is and have never shot a pig in the head without destroying the brain if the hogs here were shot quartering the other way I doubt the story would have had as happy an ending.


LOL, the brains suffered the destruction necessary. While surprised it wasn't as intended, the big deal was the lack of bone damage, especially on hog #2.

I don't like vitals and neck shots because hogs that run never seem to run to the back of my truck. They don't run when I shoot them in the head.



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