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#2917177 - 01/10/12 11:58 AM SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS
7ARanch Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Tarrant/Jack, County
I just got a permit "request" for a company to come out and do seismic testing on my land and they have offered a whopping $10/ac for the right to traipse around, except for what I've read online I really don't know what they would do but regardless I don't want them on my land. I don't own the mineral rights and the guy that does has the adjacent property. Any landmen on here that knows what my rights are or are not? I sure as heck don't want an oil rig put up on my property.
Any information is appreciated.

Mark

_________________________
Destroyer 340; Easton Flatline; Ulmer Edge
Not as Mean Not as Lean but still a Marine

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#2917204 - 01/10/12 12:07 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: 7ARanch]
helomech Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 13233
Loc: Latexo, tx
I had the same thing happen. Never responded to their letter, eventually someone came on so I called the number the guy gave me after I told him to get off my land. The lady told me they could take me to court, I told her to go ahead. Nothing ever happened after that. They did put some kind of boxes with antenna's on my property once. The wire got caught on the box blade on of my tractor and I didn't realize it for about a half mile. Ooops.

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#2917420 - 01/10/12 01:08 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: helomech]
passthru Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 8576
Loc: Saginaw, Tx
Greed

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#2917424 - 01/10/12 01:10 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: helomech]
JohnU Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 37
I've worked as both a landman and running seismic crews.

In Texas, the surface estate is subservient to the subsurface (mineral) estate. In short, they don't have to pay you for anything other than damages (to roads, fences, crops, trees, etc.) They are not required to pay you for access. The $10/acre may be a good-faith offer or prepayment for any subsequent damages. Make sure that you are not releasing them from responsibility for damages by accepting the money.

Try to find out where they are going to run their lines and take pictures. If they are drilling shot holes, ask them where they are going to get their water for drilling (depends on depth, drilling technique) and make sure they fill the holes. If you have creeks or springs, ask them to maintain some separation between them and their operations. If using vibrator trucks, see if they can limit the number of lines. See if the geophone/cable crews can keep to roads/fencelines with their vehicles and walk the equipment across fields. They should agree to stay out if the the ground is wet/soft.

Within reason, they need to leave your place mostly as they found it. And yes, they can take you to court if you deny access.

John


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#2917460 - 01/10/12 01:18 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: JohnU]
helomech Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 13233
Loc: Latexo, tx
Originally Posted By: JohnU
And yes, they can take you to court if you deny access.

John


It doesn't mean they will win though. For example my land is not huge. They can do everything they need without accessing my land. Luckily they just dropped it and worked around my place.

_________________________


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#2917469 - 01/10/12 01:19 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: helomech]
Cochise Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 3197
Loc: Texas
If the mineral owner has his mineral interests leased, they can run seismic. If the mineral owner also gave them permission or approved the seismic they can also do it. You have some rights as a surface owner but not many. If the minerals are not leased then you have pretty solid grounds to deny them access.

Basically in Texas mineral rights dominate over surface only rights.

More information can be found on the Texas rail road comissions website


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#2917473 - 01/10/12 01:20 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: JohnU]
2000cbr929 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 1548
Loc: Palo Pinto County
The seismic guys came to our place and ran all of their lines mostly by hand which was no problem, but raced around the place for several weeks on their atv's, and worst of all the vibrator trucks went in our fallow areas and basically flattened several acres of native overgrowth. It looked like they drove right through the middle without a care in the world, saplings and cover mashed flat. These were two 10 acre spots we left for wildlife to have a place to get away. One would think the vibrator trucks could have worked around these two patches especially since they had easy access to adjacent property. In short they didn't give a darn what was in the way, and whose roads they were on. Told them to slow down several times before complaining and still had it happen over and over. I don't know what a tree cost per caliper inch, but $10 and acre wouldn't replace them for sure.

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#2917616 - 01/10/12 01:57 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: 7ARanch]
GriffGruff78 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 1265
Originally Posted By: 7ARanch
I just got a permit "request" for a company to come out and do seismic testing on my land and they have offered a whopping $10/ac for the right to traipse around, except for what I've read online I really don't know what they would do but regardless I don't want them on my land. I don't own the mineral rights and the guy that does has the adjacent property. Any landmen on here that knows what my rights are or are not? I sure as heck don't want an oil rig put up on my property.
Any information is appreciated.

Mark


A request for a seismic permit simply means that they want to enter your property to image the geologic contours beneath the surface. The bonus consideration for a seismic permit is usually pretty low (ask for $50/acre - they may go for that. Are you good on your feet with car salesmen? It's the exact same skillset with landmen) to offset the cost of the actual seismic survey. The only permission you are giving by signing a seismic permit is for them to come onto your property and set up receivers, possibly vibration trucks or maybe a little auger rig to bury explosive charges.

When you actually see the paper, it will probably say "Seismic Permit w/ Lease Option Attached" or something to that effect across the top page. It would be rare for an operator to get a seismic permit without having a lease option, meaning that after they interpret the seismic data they can get a pre-negotiated lease from you simply by paying you some more money (more like $200/acre or, sometimes, much much more depending on your neck of the woods and the level of competition around you). They do that because if they were to come to you with a seismic permit, conduct their shoot and then come back asking for a lease, you have them over a barrel because they obviously expect to find something under your land or they need your land to go into a pooled unit. In other words, if you own a significant portion of your own minerals and don't ever want a drilling rig on your property and don't mind telling a guy with a $20,000 check (with the possibility of some ongoing mailbox money in the future)made out to you to eat poo and die, then you're going to have a lot of fun negotiating and you're either going to successfully defend your turf from drilling rigs OR you're going to get a good deal.

If you own more than about 1/8 of the minerals under your land, no one in his right mind is going to drill on your property without your permission and the drilling is going to be on your terms if they do.

If you don't mind PM'ing me with a moderately specific description of your location and the acreage of your property I may (or may not) be able to give you an idea of the "going rate" for your area.



Edited by GriffGruff78 (01/10/12 01:58 PM)

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#2917759 - 01/10/12 02:40 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: GriffGruff78]
Cochise Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 3197
Loc: Texas
He doesn't own the minerals. Surface owner only.


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#2917772 - 01/10/12 02:45 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: 7ARanch]
rifleman Offline
Sparkly Pants
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 38101
Loc: Kingwood
Originally Posted By: 7ARanch
I just got a permit "request" for a company to come out and do seismic testing on my land and they have offered a whopping $10/ac for the right to traipse around, except for what I've read online I really don't know what they would do but regardless I don't want them on my land. I don't own the mineral rights and the guy that does has the adjacent property. Any landmen on here that knows what my rights are or are not? I sure as heck don't want an oil rig put up on my property.
Any information is appreciated.

Mark


my advice would be to seek the advice of an O&G attorney vs. a landman.

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He and Tony Romo ought to be shot, they are both worthless.

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#2917791 - 01/10/12 02:52 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: rifleman]
JWP58 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 2531
Loc: WY
I would tell them to kiss my [censored]

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#2917811 - 01/10/12 03:00 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: JWP58]
aeb Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 11263
Loc: West Texas
I think the bottom line is that they have the right to do the seismic work but you are due compensation for damages. On the positive side, if the land is pretty brushy you may get some lines dozed out. I have a few usable trails on the ranch that were the result of seismic work years ago.

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You sure you want to poach on our place?

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#2917873 - 01/10/12 03:40 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: aeb]
7ARanch Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Tarrant/Jack, County
I obviously put this in the wrong place, my apologies.
Thank you to all of you for the input and as noted I only have the surface. The guy that owns the mineral rights (since 1959) still owns the land adjacent to me. I have not been able to reach him. Since I posted this originally I did call the Diversified Land Management company and tell them no, to which I got an "OK, thanks for calling" I also left my phone number if they have questions.
He did say they have a permit signed by the mineral owner and he has lots of land, i pointed out they can access anything on my property from his property so there is no reason for them to set foot on my land. So now I'm just waiting to see what happens...

_________________________
Destroyer 340; Easton Flatline; Ulmer Edge
Not as Mean Not as Lean but still a Marine

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#2917880 - 01/10/12 03:44 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: aeb]
txtrophy85 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 19818
Originally Posted By: aeb
I think the bottom line is that they have the right to do the seismic work but you are due compensation for damages. On the positive side, if the land is pretty brushy you may get some lines dozed out. I have a few usable trails on the ranch that were the result of seismic work years ago.


If you don't own minerals or executive rights then the only compensation your due is to surface damages. From what I've seen, they will typically try and be accommodating to the land owner

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#2917896 - 01/10/12 03:51 PM Re: SEISMIC TESTING/SURFACE OWNERS RIGHTS [Re: aeb]
Nathan at Fork Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 4382
Loc: Emory, TX
Sure am happy I own 100% mineral rights to my 60 acres. Not anything ggoing on in my neck of the woods, but its hard to believe that you can buy a place and then have almost no say as to who comes on it and what they do.

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