Does not dont

How do u feel about health testing

Justin, I don't disagree with you on all points. I do, however, disagree with your methods. I believe time will bear me out when I say that it is never beneficial to attempt to rise oneself by lowering those around you. In the short term, it may appear you are getting somewhere, but in the long run, the inescapable precept of sowing and reaping will bring a rather unpalatable harvest.

I say I have 30 dogs on my grounds and I do - 5 are guard dogs, several are strays or abandoned (I have a heart that is sometimes bigger than my wallet when it comes to dogs) and 8 are newborn pups. Of course all 30 don't count toward my program... but I guarantee you that if the state 'puppy mill committee' came to inspect, they'd count every dog they could. Programs like that, once intiated are self-perpetuating with THEIR primary goal to remain intact and maintain their jobs; their secondary goal to justify their existence and somewhere far down the line, as an after-thought, the 'quality' they were created to maintain. Your post, putting decent breeding programs in the cross hairs of puppy mill witch hunters only exacerbates this 'government panacea' mindset. And this puppy mill bill will, in time, prove to be a burden, not a boon, for breeders. And that includes the reputable and ethical ones, too.

First off I started this thread to hear what others thought, others chose to pm me telling me about the one mentioned person. I had nonideanwho this person was and had no intent to point fingers at said person. I don't consider rescue organization who have a bunch of dogs or other people who have a bunch because they are animal lovers but do for people who would just like to own a lot to breed them for money as there sole purpose or as a job instead of getting a real one.
I think there should be more people doing kennel inspections, if u have nothing to be worried about people wouldn't care if akc or city shows up.. Let me guess do u not like akc either?

But u have still never mentioned to u do health testing on all your breeding dogs?

I'll say this, I have to use them to register my dogs, but a bigger money grubbing organization I have never seen. They try to sell you everything in the world when you simply need to register a litter.
And when you register a pup or run a pedigree or anything.

Now they email saying they are concerned that only 50% of all pups are registered and that with all the effort we put into building our pedigrees and not getting credit for it, that if we send them the litter registrations sheet with all the new owners, they will contact each one and try to convince them to register the pup.

I dont care if the pup gets registered or not. I have owners that told me up front they know what they are getting from me and papers dont change a thing or make it a better dog. That is their business and I will not subject them to the hounding from AKC. Period.

AKC only wants the additional registration fees and what ever else they can milk out of the new owner.

I think, just like veterinarians, vaccines and big pharmaceuticals, it is first and foremost a business. A very large, bureaurocrat and largely PROFITABLE business. The organizations behind much of the testing are self-perpetuating and make big bucks in the name of 'safeguarding' the breeding industry. One should not lose sight of that. They gain power and ultimately more money, by making themselves "essential" or "required." The pathway is this: 1) be a 'good idea'; then 2) be the 'preferred method'; then 3) become the common denominator - businesses affected 'do or die' by their servics and are therefore forced to 'voluntarily' commit; and finally 4) become required.

Right now, they are at the 'common denominator' point. Breeders who don't buy into the program fall to the wayside, believed to be unethical, irresponsible and the like. By driving market demand they can then push to become REQUIRED... and once they reach that level, they will begin to demand repeat tests, methods of 'proving' dogs have been tested, methods of penalizing for lack of testing and of course, the goal of every bureaucratic monopoly... MONEY. More fees, higher fees and the like. That is the cold hard truth about the business side of health clearances. If there were no money in it, large pharma would never have gotten behind it.

Now, all that said... making sure you are doing everything you can to produce healthy, sound pups for your clientele is the only ethical way for a breeder to do business. MOST health clearances aid in this.

There has been a poster on here who for years has harranged me, trying to get me to say whether or not I test and to state my stance on it. Because the query always came on the heels of an unwarranted attack against my program, I declined to respond. Not because I am ashamed of my answer or have anything to hide. On the contrary. I declined to answer because I refuse to 'explain' or 'justify' myself. I operate well within a firm set of ethical boundaries, I don't need to explain myself.

But in my response to you above, I finally did answer that question. And my answer explains why my dogs are not listed on the big testing organization's websites. It's because I know it is 'big business' and because I refuse to aid in the transition toward helping them become 'essential.' I refuse to have standards dictated to me and I don't believe they should be dictated to anyone. Ethics are void when mandates are present. I will do the ethical thing NOT because some large bureaucracy mandated it, but because, very simply, it is the right thing to do. And since I can trust myself to do the right thing, I don't need to plaster my dogs up on large pharma controlled websites to prove that I do. The only opinion I care about when it comes to my dogs, is that of the people who choose to purchase them. THOSE PEOPLE, my clients, I will do everything possible to make happy.

You just explained very clearly, my concern regarding the testing agencies. They are headed where AKC is.

Actually, I was answering, my response took some time to input. I didn't realize I was on trial. Do you think I need to explain or justify myself to you? That was a rhetorical question, so here is the obvious answer - I don't.

Oh well, they gotta eat too!!!

Iron Spike, your statement explains why I am so adamantly opposed to limited registration. IMO, "better the breed" is purely subjective.

Define "animal lover." Who are you to decide what constitutes 'loving' an animal vs... I don't know, what are you driving at... "using" it?



You don't consider breeding dogs or running a kennel a "real job?" Then clearly, you have never run a kennel. You have a lot of opinions for one standing in such a firm position of ignorance. Please feel free to come spend a month here at my kennels and let me know at the end of 30 days whether or not this is a 'real job.' I answer emails and update my website between 2:00 and 4:00 am, feed & train between 5:00 & 7:00 am, then feed and train again in the evening. This does not include cleaning kennels, caring for pups, nursing sick animals, trips to the vet, entertaining visitors, holding workshops, providing free advice on the phone or via email... I don't think a job can get much more 'real.' But it all goes back to that commitment and ethics thing I said earlier, doesn't it? What you put in vs what you take out...

On another point, have you ever considered that maybe that so-called "not real job" of running a kennel just might be, MIGHT be, a person's way of earning an honest living vs, maybe, I dunno.... collecting lifetime disability? I could be out on a limb here, but just a hunch... suppose there were some 'puppy mill proprietor' out there who, suffering from a permanent, debilitating condition chose to WORK in the only manner they could, to earn an honest living, rather than be a burden on society? Ah, why drivel with details when you can nail them to the wall, publicly debase them and discredit the business they built with their blood, sweat and tears while basking in anonymity?



Well, since it's apparent you are not familiar with running a kennel, that doesn't surprise me. And I disagree wholeheartedly. I stated before and it bears repeating, where mandates are present, ethics are absent. I don't need to have my ethics mandated to me. I don't need to be 'inspected' to do the right thing. By virtue of loving to spend time with dogs, I should not be subjected to an abject invasion of privacy. My G-d given rights are not void because I breed dogs. My family has a right to live in peace, at home, free of government invasion and intrusion. "Worry?" It's not that I have anything to 'worry' about... it's not man, the city or the AKC I answer to, but to a much higher governing body. One that sees what I do when no one else is looking. So, who are you, the city, some 'committee' or anyone else, to tell me what I should do on my own property? And just come waltzing in to 'inspect' me? My home? My property? Your liberal perspective is evident, Justin, so I suppose to you there should be no such thing as 'privacy.' It seems you might be of the mind to claim that all should be 'communal.'

All that said, I think you may never grasp what I am speaking about. It appears you seem to think that 'inspections', 'mandates' and governmental powers will somehow magically 'force' people to do the right thing. Where in the world could I possibly begin to explain the folly in that sort of liberal logic? It's ruined an entire country, suffice it to say it will easily ruin an industry, be it breeding or otherwise.

It all gets back to that 'control' issue. Liberals are all hung up on 'controlling' everyone around them. Control leads to power and power leads to money. The underlying motivation is as old as mankind itself... selfishness and greed.

I actually worked for a professional field trial hunt test pro for awhile many years ago while I was in school. I know exactly what it's like cleaning kennels training dogs visiting with clients cleaning kennels again more yard work and airing dogs. Haven't you noticed you don't see any other pros on here very much? That's because they are too busy out training.

Thanks for listing you're skills justin.I call you when I need my kennel cleaned. Lol

How about u call when you need the fire dept or need some mma training. I do and teach both

Pm sent justin

Replied, but you just talk crap behind a computer screen.

I think we'll just stick to calling 911 if we need the fire department.

It kind of sounded like you had a particular kennel in mind when posting this. So shady from the start. It also sounds like you are confusing a breeder with a trainer; or maybe you like your trainers to breed also? In any event, they are different professions all together even though some do both.

"How about u call when you need the fire dept or need some mma training. I do and teach both"

Oh and in case you haven't noticed; this is the internet, we are all bad @$$es over here. Was your intent to try to scare someone or something?

Gengo, I would NEVER say ANYTHiNG behind a computer I wouldn't say to someone's face. Just sayn

Justin, may I ask what you do for a living?

I am a trainer and breeder. I have 1 breeding male and female. I don't know what you mean by pro but I have been training Labs to point and retrieve since 1990. I had and may still be the person who trained and owned the youngest dog to ever become a started dog in a UKC hunt test. His name was Trinity River Renegade and he started at 14 weeks. I was in Tejas Hunting Retriever Club. I was also the dog trainer for J.B. Hunt, the guy with all of the trucks. While I don't have 10 females I don't begrudge the people that do, he had a whole lot more than that, as long as they have the proper care. As I know ISK or comet do or I would not send my customers their way. I also have a direct line to John Goodman of the HSUS in Washington, D.C. If you want his direct email I'll be more than happy to give it to you. A wise man once said hold your friends close and your enemies even closer. That has always worked for me.